Danny Hurley welcome to the Lakers !

[dtgold88]

Phil is Phil because he got those guys to put egos aside and play together.

Better than anyone ever.

How many times did he coach a championship caliber team? Maybe 13 seasons?

And he won 11?

That is crazy.

No MJ for a full season in Chicago and no title. Go figure. MJ leaves and Phil leaves. But returns when he can coach the best player in the sport again...arguably the best 2.

Is that smart/opportunistic? absolutely.

 

[dtgold88]

See though…

I think it is way easier for a great coach to have a contending team every year in college.

And way flukier to win a championship. And that works both ways. It is almost a different sport entirely.

I just don’t get the logic behind the argument. So many truly epic coaches who never coached in college.

Do we really think if Phil Jackson or Pat Riley coached at the college level for a decade that they weren’t going to be highly successful?

Would all come down to how they could recruit....also, is Tex joining Phil in college?

 

[dtgold88]

As guy who was rooting for the team that kept beating him..

I don’t remember people wondering if he’d ever win.

He was losing to the best team in the NBA. The team who had been the team that kept losing to the best team in the NBA before that.

The Russ comparisons are not something I’m very comfortable with. In fact, I dislike seeing it.

I don't mind seeing the Russ comparison as entitled to opinion......but I think that's kooky talk.

 

[dtgold88]

When talking about "impossibly hard to coach" it's not necessarily about there being open defiance, shouting matches or calling for a coach to be fired.

Part of what makes great players great is their delusional level belief in their own abilities. Much more often than not, it comes with the belief that they don't need anyone else to win. It can be very difficult to get those players to play and stick with a team concept because for most of their lives, they kinda haven't needed anyone else to win.

Imo, without Phil getting stars to buy into a team concept, you don't see MJ giving up the ball to Paxson and Kerr or Kobe give up the ball to Metta World Peace for dagger 3's late in finals games.

as to the last comment? I do.Just not buying there are not other coaches who could have convinced MJ to pass late in games.

 

[dtgold88]

Whefff… idk there.

What were they together for, 9/11 titles?

I hesitate with Wooden in these on account of the pool of talent he had to pick from to divide his 200 minutes a night.

Don’t mean to diminish him or anything. Just has always felt foreign in a way to me.

Everything CBB that’s before Magic/Bird just feels completely different.

a good point....obviously a hell of a recruiter but was also a time his best players stayed, I believe, 4 years.

 

[dtgold88]

They were together for a lot of winning.

But the Triangle offense was nothing special. Innovative at the time, sure.

But it was Phil’s ability to get superstars to buy in to the team concept is what made it work.

and there are reasons why nobody uses it anymore.

Phil was a master at putting talented people around him and letting them do their thing. If not Tex, he would have found someone else to fill the same role.

Basically what you are saying, it seems, is Phil was a good coach because he could get the elite of elite players to play nice and share the ball if needed?

I mean, if this were true, wouldn't they have been able to keep Kobe and Shaq together (when apparently Phil forgot how to coach until Pau came aboard)? It's almost like even if they didn't get along and want to play nice the really good players were still really good.

 

[dtgold88]

Did I say that?

Phil knew what his strengths were. He wasn’t the X and O guy.

You guys are giving way to much credit to an assistant who ran a now outdated scheme.

and you are giving way too much to who was apparently a psychologist but not really a coach?

 

[dtgold88]

LOL.

That is the hard part.

Xs and Os are easy. There are literally hundreds of coaches who can do that.

Overseeing it all and getting the pieces to work together is where the art is.

Xs and Os are easy? If so, why don't we see more psychologists making the jump to coaching in the pros?

THAT was next level.

 

[dtgold88]

As @tlance pointed out, not dominating the ball and allowing it to move amongst your teammates will do that.

Also, not all assists are created equal. Russell Westbrook won himself an MVP because he averaged a triple double.

But how much did the assists part of that really contribute to winning?

Many of those assists came from him dominating the ball for 20 out of 24 seconds before finally passing the ball.

His teams may have won more if he averaged 6 or 7 assists and allowed the ball to move more among his teammates.

I can agree the assists coming down does not mean a whole lot when it comes to MJs when Phil joined.

But these comparisons to Westbrook are kind of out there IMO (and, yes, I get it's not solely about their overall talent)

 

[broncosmitty]

As @tlance pointed out, not dominating the ball and allowing it to move amongst your teammates will do that.

Also, not all assists are created equal. Russell Westbrook won himself an MVP because he averaged a triple double.

But how much did the assists part of that really contribute to winning?

Many of those assists came from him dominating the ball for 20 out of 24 seconds before finally passing the ball.

His teams may have won more if he averaged 6 or 7 assists and allowed the ball to move more among his teammates.

This Russ stuff…

I don’t like it.

lol

 

[dtgold88]

Phil is Phil because he got those guys to put egos aside and play together.

Better than anyone ever.

How many times did he coach a championship caliber team? Maybe 13 seasons?

And he won 11?

That is crazy.

"He got those guys to put their egos aside and play together"? So why did they need to trade Shaq?

How many times did he coach a team without arguably the best player in the sport or arguably the best 2 players? and how many titles did he win in those seasons?

 

[tlance]

"He got those guys to put their egos aside and play together"? So why did they need to trade Shaq?

How many times did he coach a team without arguably the best player in the sport or arguably the best 2 players? and how many titles did he win in those seasons?

Because of egos dude.

They didn’t fit.

And he made it work anyway

 

[tlance]

Xs and Os are easy? If so, why don't we see more psychologists making the jump to coaching in the pros?

THAT was next level.

Is this for real?

How many psychologists are 6’8” former NBA players with super high basketball IQ?

You think a random suit is getting buy in from NBA players?

 

[broncosmitty]

a good point....obviously a hell of a recruiter but was also a time his best players stayed, I believe, 4 years.

And his freshman weren’t allowed to play on Varsity.

I honestly don’t know if it’s true or if I just have imagined it, but I think schollys were different then. Like you could have way more. Maybe I’m wrong. Idk.

Don’t want to take anything away from Wooden. He dominated for years.

And was a real old school Piston…

 

[tlance]

and you are giving way too much to who was apparently a psychologist but not really a coach?

Show me where I said he wasn’t a coach.

Phil can do Xs and Os just fine. But he delegated to guys who could specialize and do it better.

While he worried about more important things like managing Dennis Rodman and keeping Shaq and Kobe from killing each other.

 

[tlance]

And his freshman weren’t allowed to play on Varsity.

I honestly don’t know if it’s true or if I just have imagined it, but I think schollys were different then. Like you could have way more. Maybe I’m wrong. Idk.

Don’t want to take anything away from Wooden. He dominated for years.

And was a real old school Piston…

You are correct.

Freshmen couldn’t play for at least part of his tenure.

He had 3 years with his players.

 

[tlance]

No MJ for a full season in Chicago and no title. Go figure. MJ leaves and Phil leaves. But returns when he can coach the best player in the sport again...arguably the best 2.

Is that smart/opportunistic? absolutely.

Ummm….

They took the Knicks to game 7 and lost an extremely controversial game 5 where the refs called a non-existent shooting foul sending Hubert Davis to the line to hit game winning FTs with basically no time on the clock.

The Knicks went on to lose to the Rockets in game 7 during the OJ Finals.

That team was right there.

Same type of stuff you guys are creaming in your shorts over Larry Brown for.

And you want to make this seem like a negative for PJ?

 

[broncosmitty]

You are correct.

Freshmen couldn’t play for at least part of his tenure.

He had 3 years with his players.

Were scholarship rules different then too?

Again all of his career was before my time, but feel like I remember old hats talking about how for years the second best team in the country was Wooden’s JV squad.

 

[tlance]

Were scholarship rules different then too?

Again all of his career was before my time, but feel like I remember old hats talking about how for years the second best team in the country was Wooden’s JV squad.

I don’t know about that.

I just know the JV were the freshmen who weren’t eligible to play.

 

[dtgold88]

Because of egos dude.

They didn’t fit.

And he made it work anyway

so he could get guys to put their egos aside......except for when he was not able to get them to put their egos aside.

Yes, he got arguably the 2 best players in the sport to win a bunch of games. Bravo. How'd he do with no Shaq before Pau arrived? Those 2 years they missed the playoffs? Just forget how smart he was?