Commish Wants to Raise Min Age

[Logicallylethal]

You are just making things up and believing it. If a kid flunks out of the NBA there is no reason to believe that somehow going to college would make him a better player and more NBA ready. The NBA has the ability to train players. It happens all the time. Dorrell Wright, Jermaine Oneal, Kobe Bryant, Dwight Stephenson are all examples of guys refining those skills in the NBA. The idea that going to college for two somehow means you will stay in the league and are now NBA draft bust proof is a flat out fantasy. You also seem to think that once youre gone from the league.. you can never come back. There is no Europe to make money. There is no D-League to come back.

Is the draft the right choice for every kid? No. But I say we actually let these kids make their own career decisions like Bryce Harper was allowed to do in MLB.

What exactly am I making up? The majority of high school kids who have entered the NBA immediately have not done well in their first 2-3 seasons. There are the few once in a decade type of talents that blossom quickly but for the most part these kids don't really hit their stride until they are 20 or older. Which is the exact age the NBA wants them to come out. It helps the product of the NBA and the product of the NCAA

And speaking of Dorrell Wright, what benefit does a Dorrell Wright get in refining his skills when he is only playing 9 and 6.6 minutes per game his first two seasons?

Same with Jermaine Oneal who sat on the bench playing 10, 13, 8 and 12 mins a game his first four seasons. Am I making that up too?

If Jermaine Oneal and Dorrell Wright were college players they would have been getting 25-30 mins a game.

Like i said previously, your real issue is with colleges not paying/compensating players. And that point I agree with you on.

If colleges paid their players you would have zero problem with the NBA extending the age limit to 20.

But it seems like you are dead set on your opinion.

It is what it is man. Agree to disagree

 

[Flauge]

In his first year, he only averaged 10.5/6.3/1.8, not terrible, but not necessarily "NBA ready" straight out of high school. He was the 5th overall pick. So, while he definitely improved significantly in his 2nd season, a couple of seasons of college certainly wouldn't have hurt him.

Kobe improved similarly from his 1st year to his second. A season or 2 in college would not have hurt him either. As another poster pointed out, out of the guys who came directly from high school, Lebron and Dwight were the only one's to come in and have true immediate impact and even Dwight's is somewhat questionable.

I will grant you that alot of guys arent NBA ready at 18. Including Garnett and Kobe. What I dont believe is that going to college prepares you more for the NBA than the NBA does itself. When I set the range of this rule being at best stupid.. and at worst racist. The idea that college prepares you better for the NBA than the actual NBA falls on the stupid side.

Kobe and KG were both all-stars by the time they were 20. How many rookies make the all-star team? The NBA prepared them much faster than college ever could. The idea that playing against inferior opponents in a much slower game would have made these guys better is fantasy. By the time they were 20 they were already millionaire all-star players. This rule would make them rookies with half a years salary under their belt. It was clearly better for both these players to forgo college.

 

[Flauge]

What exactly am I making up? The majority of high school kids who have entered the NBA immediately have not done well in their first 2-3 seasons. There are the few once in a decade type of talents that blossom quickly but for the most part these kids don't really hit their stride until they are 20 or older. Which is the exact age the NBA wants them to come out. It helps the product of the NBA and the product of the NCAA

And speaking of Dorrell Wright, what benefit does a Dorrell Wright get in refining his skills when he is only playing 9 and 6.6 minutes per game his first two seasons?

Same with Jermaine Oneal who sat on the bench playing 10, 13, 8 and 12 mins a game his first four seasons. Am I making that up too?

If Jermaine Oneal and Dorrell Wright were college players they would have been getting 25-30 mins a game.

Like i said previously, your real issue is with colleges not paying/compensating players. And that point I agree with you on.

If colleges paid their players you would have zero problem with the NBA extending the age limit to 20.

But it seems like you are dead set on your opinion.

It is what it is man. Agree to disagree

Dorrell Wright and JO may have got less minutes in games. But there are 82 of them. Not 30 like college. They also spent time at practice against NBA talent. They also had their full attention on the game.. not also trying to be a full time student. they also made millions.

What I absolutely agree with you on..is this helps the college game. The NBA loves its free minor league system.

 

[trojanfan12]

I will grant you that alot of guys arent NBA ready at 18. Including Garnett and Kobe. What I dont believe is that going to college prepares you more for the NBA than the NBA does itself. When I set the range of this rule being at best stupid.. and at worst racist. The idea that college prepares you better for the NBA than the actual NBA falls on the stupid side.

Kobe and KG were both all-stars by the time they were 20. How many rookies make the all-star team? The NBA prepared them much faster than college ever could. The idea that playing against inferior opponents in a much slower game would have made these guys better is fantasy. By the time they were 20 they were already millionaire all-star players. This rule would make them rookies with half a years salary under their belt. It was clearly better for both these players to forgo college.

I disagree on the idea that college not preparing a player for the NBA. It's more playing time than they may otherwise get. For example: Kobe averaged 15.5 minutes per game during his rookie season. Had he gone to Duke (the school he would have gone to had he chosen college) he plays roughly double that while learning from one of the greatest college coaches in history.

As good and fundamentally sound as Kobe was coming out of high school, do you think he would learn nothing from Coach K?

Heck, as much as some on here like to call him a ballhog, maybe he'd have learned to share a little more.

Additionally, a couple of seasons in college may help some of these guys to mature a little and help them transition to the NBA. After all, just because a player is physically prepared for the NBA, doesn't mean they are ready mentally and emotionally.

 

[Pencil Sharpener]

i find this at best stupid and at worse racist. the NFL and the NBA are the only sports that require this minimum age. You can drive in Nascar at 16. Why the age requirements on the two sports that have the most black kids? I get the NBA is trying to protect their free minor league system. But would anybody bat an eye if an 18 year old kid were hired directly from high school to IBM, Microsoft, or Apple and given a 6 figure salary because of his computer skills? No, no problems there.

Millions are on the line.. going to college could blow your knees/ankles.. anything. Take the money while you can young men.

Good god you are fucking stupid beyond belief? Racist? Is your liberal nimrod'ed as that fucking uneducated. Racism is an issue today because pussy liberals like yourself make it one and what to use it to gain free shit from it....if you want to hop on a civil rights movement, how about I put your ass on the corner and you take a couple dozen dicks per night up inside it? Then you can join the gay civil rights movement............



Now back to the thread, good for the commissioner.


As far as this idiot and his soon to be comeback........save the right wing crap....I lean liberal too, difference is I am not retarded

 

[Pencil Sharpener]

Nobody is forcing kids into their free minor league system of college basketball. Their is a D league that pays $12k to $24k a year (which should could be raised) or there are currently professional leagues in Europe with out a salary cap who would probably pay more than the rookie scale contracts they get in the NBA. Not to mention if say a Wiggins type went to the D-League they would be immediately fought over by shoe companies etc and be instantly a millionaire.

As for it being racist that the NFL and NBA have age limits and Nascar doesn't, I disagree. I am usually right there on most (even almost outlandish) racist claims but I am not sold on this. They should have more options as far as work goes. A college student is not limited in the jobs they can have to go to school, neither should an athlete be limited. They should not just handed money by boosters though.

The NBA is a corporation, they can hire whomever they want. Other corporations hire right out of high school because that is beneficial to their company. If the NBA and NFL think that young kids are bad for their product that is their choice.



The drinking age should be lowered to 18. If the country thinks you are old enough to die for their war profiteering they should be considered old enough to drink.


*Also as far as reparations go, kids from poverty earning an education is far more valuable than any amount of money that could be handed over. Once again, nobody makes them choose a shitty school/degree or to be done after a year. Kids should also be allowed to sell their names or have whatever job they want.

Yeah we should lower the age to 18 to drink....I mean the brain isnt fully developed until kids turn 21...so lets stunt their growth even more.......better yet lets make drunk driving legal too......................If they can kill for their country why cant they kill their country men......right?.............right?

 

[LALakersboy24.7]

I disagree on the idea that college not preparing a player for the NBA. It's more playing time than they may otherwise get. For example: Kobe averaged 15.5 minutes per game during his rookie season. Had he gone to Duke (the school he would have gone to had he chosen college) he plays roughly double that while learning from one of the greatest college coaches in history.

As good and fundamentally sound as Kobe was coming out of high school, do you think he would learn nothing from Coach K?

Heck, as much as some on here like to call him a ballhog, maybe he'd have learned to share a little more.

Additionally, a couple of seasons in college may help some of these guys to mature a little and help them transition to the NBA. After all, just because a player is physically prepared for the NBA, doesn't mean they are ready mentally and emotionally.

Well said, but Kobe did have Phil Jackson to learn from over the years, so he didn't IMO lose any valuable knowledge that he would of got in college that much. The man's IQ was just remarkable for his age when he came in to the NBA at 17 1/2 years old.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Well said, but Kobe did have Phil Jackson to learn from over the years, so he didn't IMO lose any valuable knowledge that he would of got in college that much. The man's IQ was just remarkable for his age when he came in to the NBA at 17 1/2 years old.

I think we can blame Kobe's childhood for his intelligence. Traveling and experiencing other cultures is a great education. I was very impressed when I learned he spoke 3 languages.

Even more shocking is that that his parents named him after a steak and fruit, you do not expect that to be good genes

 

[trojanfan12]

Well said, but Kobe did have Phil Jackson to learn from over the years, so he didn't IMO lose any valuable knowledge that he would of got in college that much. The man's IQ was just remarkable for his age when he came in to the NBA at 17 1/2 years old.

Actually, Kobe was lucky in that he had Phil and also that his father was a former NBA player. That's pretty fortunate. Even at that, there are still some thing that he could have learned by attending Duke for a season or 2 (might have enabled Phil to be a little less frustrated with him in the first go around).

 

[Flauge]

Good god you are fucking stupid beyond belief? Racist? Is your liberal nimrod'ed as that fucking uneducated. Racism is an issue today because pussy liberals like yourself make it one and what to use it to gain free shit from it....if you want to hop on a civil rights movement, how about I put your ass on the corner and you take a couple dozen dicks per night up inside it? Then you can join the gay civil rights movement............



Now back to the thread, good for the commissioner.


As far as this idiot and his soon to be comeback........save the right wing crap....I lean liberal too, difference is I am not retarded

This isnt a politcal forum. But just so you know... I'm not liberal. I held my nose and voted for Mitt Romney last election and I am a libertarian. I find this rule stupid at best and racist at worst. I stand by that. The only two sports where you cant be 18 and a millionaire are the ones african americans dominate. Got it. No way that can be construed as racism.

 

[Flauge]

I disagree on the idea that college not preparing a player for the NBA. It's more playing time than they may otherwise get. For example: Kobe averaged 15.5 minutes per game during his rookie season. Had he gone to Duke (the school he would have gone to had he chosen college) he plays roughly double that while learning from one of the greatest college coaches in history.

As good and fundamentally sound as Kobe was coming out of high school, do you think he would learn nothing from Coach K?

Heck, as much as some on here like to call him a ballhog, maybe he'd have learned to share a little more.

Additionally, a couple of seasons in college may help some of these guys to mature a little and help them transition to the NBA. After all, just because a player is physically prepared for the NBA, doesn't mean they are ready mentally and emotionally.

But see that's just not true. Kobe doesnt get more playing time at Duke. 15.5 minutes a game times 82 games is alot larger number than 30 a game times Dukes schedule. Would Kobe have learned something from Coach K? Sure, who couldnt? The question is where would he have learned more and become a better player? Playing against inferior opponents in the ACC or in the NBA? At 19 years old Kobe was an NBA all-star. He averaged 20 points 5 boards and 4 assists his 3rd years in the league.. which would have been his rookie year with this new rule. If he played at Duke i dont think he puts those numbers up year 1. He also doesnt have the couple million sitting in his bank account.

Anyway you slice it... the NBA was the right move for him. Think about this, you are literally arguing that a Hall of Fame 5 time NBA champion and Lakers all time leading scorer made the wrong choice to join the NBA when he did. I know your not as big a Kobe guy as the rest of the Laker contingent.. but think about that argument your making.

 

[trojanfan12]

But see that's just not true. Kobe doesnt get more playing time at Duke. 15.5 minutes a game times 82 games is alot larger number than 30 a game times Dukes schedule. Would Kobe have learned something from Coach K? Sure, who couldnt? The question is where would he have learned more and become a better player? Playing against inferior opponents in the ACC or in the NBA? At 19 years old Kobe was an NBA all-star. He averaged 20 points 5 boards and 4 assists his 3rd years in the league.. which would have been his rookie year with this new rule. If he played at Duke i dont think he puts those numbers up year 1. He also doesnt have the couple million sitting in his bank account.

Anyway you slice it... the NBA was the right move for him. Think about this, you are literally arguing that a Hall of Fame 5 time NBA champion and Lakers all time leading scorer made the wrong choice to join the NBA when he did. I know your not as big a Kobe guy as the rest of the Laker contingent.. but think about that argument your making.

Not saying he made the wrong choice, just that a couple of years of college wouldn't have hurt his development. During his first few years in the NBA, Kobe spent most of his off-time by himself. He had nothing in common with his teammates. This caused him to be considered "aloof" and it dogs him to this day.

It worked out for Kobe because he was in a very fortunate situation. He is the son of a former NBA player, so he had knowledge of the NBA that the vast majority of players coming out of high school do not. He also went to a team that didn't need him to be the teams best player right away, so he had time to develop.

Again, Kobe was in a unique situation and yet he still could have used a season or 2 of college. If nothing else, it may have made it easier for him to relate to his teammates.

 

[Flauge]

At 20...Kobe had made 2.2 million on the court (not sure on endorsements and appearance fees) and was already an NBA all-star. He also only had 1 year left on his rookie contract that has the smallest cap.

2.2 million + appearance fees and endorsements and an NBA all star.

No way you are convincing me that somehow going to Duke would have been better for the 5 time champion. sorry.

 

[Flauge]

in fact i have never even heard anyone argue that losing over 2 million dollars is good for someone professionally. i feel like im the only one not taking the kool aid.

 

[trojanfan12]

At 20...Kobe had made 2.2 million on the court (not sure on endorsements and appearance fees) and was already an NBA all-star. He also only had 1 year left on his rookie contract that has the smallest cap.

2.2 million + appearance fees and endorsements and an NBA all star.

No way you are convincing me that somehow going to Duke would have been better for the 5 time champion. sorry.

You're too focused on the money. There are other factors besides money. Like I said, for Kobe, it worked out because of his unique situation.

How many other players have we seen that come in to the league early, make a couple million right away, only to be out of the league and broke within a few years?

Those "busts" that come up on various threads from time to time. I wonder how many of them wish they had taken the college option?


Btw, I know of a 6 time NBA champion who is widely considered the GOAT that went to college for a couple of seasons.

 

[HizzleRocker]

in fact i have never even heard anyone argue that losing over 2 million dollars is good for someone professionally. i feel like im the only one not taking the kool aid.

You have multiple problems with your argument, and many have already been pointed out. I will state a couple others...

1) Using only a few world rare players as the golden boys of your argument is bad. I think you used 4. You are completely overlooking every single other player who went and didn't work out. If you were to pair the percentages of those that worked and those that didn't - it would not favor you, I promise.

2) The NBA's job in your opinion seems to be to take care of high school kids who don't want an education. Otherwise why do you keep mentioning what is best financially only for the 17/18 year old? The NBA's job is to build a better product. Period. You really seem to be overlooking that.

3) Not 1 single poster has bought your race argument. We all get where you are trying to go. I understand you are trying to connect a bunch of dots to get there. It's not that we don't understand - We just don't buy it. Seriously, you are the ONLY one on this island. Jump off!

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Yeah we should lower the age to 18 to drink....I mean the brain isnt fully developed until kids turn 21...so lets stunt their growth even more.......better yet lets make drunk driving legal too......................If they can kill for their country why cant they kill their country men......right?.............right?

I am not necessarily for lowering the drinking age, I would much rather see the age limit for mercenaries go up.

 

[Flauge]

You have multiple problems with your argument, and many have already been pointed out. I will state a couple others...

1) Using only a few world rare players as the golden boys of your argument is bad. I think you used 4. You are completely overlooking every single other player who went and didn't work out. If you were to pair the percentages of those that worked and those that didn't - it would not favor you, I promise.

2) The NBA's job in your opinion seems to be to take care of high school kids who don't want an education. Otherwise why do you keep mentioning what is best financially only for the 17/18 year old? The NBA's job is to build a better product. Period. You really seem to be overlooking that.

3) Not 1 single poster has bought your race argument. We all get where you are trying to go. I understand you are trying to connect a bunch of dots to get there. It's not that we don't understand - We just don't buy it. Seriously, you are the ONLY one on this island. Jump off!

1) Of course I use the guys that worked out. Why wouldnt I? It proves that there are 18 year olds who are ready for the NBA. Of course most guys didnt last in the NBA. Newsflash.. most guys dont last in the NBA. Careers tend to be shot. Guys that get drafted from college dont make it. But of the 40ish guys that went from high school to the pros... Lebron James, Kevin Garnet, Jermain O'neal, Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Moses Malone, Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudamire have all been first team all NBA. That isnt a bad % compared to the draft. And the % of hall of famers in that group I would take with any college kid %.

2)The NBA's job to build a better product.. this is insanely arbitrary. There is no proof 18 year olds to the NBA have hurt the NBA product at all. Al Jefferson, Lebron James, Moses Malone, Kobe Bryant, Amaré, Dwight Howard, Darryl Dawkins, Kevin Garnett, Jermain O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Tyson Chandler... these guys are hurting the NBA product? It seems like people believe just because they say something it is true.

3) I dont care who agrees with me. I dont use the internet to tell me how to think. I stand by it. The best way this rule can be describe is stupid. The worst way is racist. No other sports have this rule. MLB for whatever reason doesnt need to build a better product. NASCAR either. Only the NBA and NFL.. that's it.

 

[Flauge]

You're too focused on the money. There are other factors besides money. Like I said, for Kobe, it worked out because of his unique situation.

How many other players have we seen that come in to the league early, make a couple million right away, only to be out of the league and broke within a few years?

Those "busts" that come up on various threads from time to time. I wonder how many of them wish they had taken the college option?


Btw, I know of a 6 time NBA champion who is widely considered the GOAT that went to college for a couple of seasons.

i am sure those busts are to busy counting their millions than worrying about college. im sure somewhere jonathon bender is wishing he had gone to college.. proven he couldnt play and didnt get drafted and made nothing. those millions just suck.

congrats Mike Jordan went to college. at least he was given the choice of pro if he wanted too.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

How many of your 1st team allstars made a significant impact as a rookie? IE the 1 year they would have had to play basketball someplace besides the NBA. How about in year 2?

There have been 42 players to come straight from high school.

Of the players you have listed only LBJ made a decent impact his 1st year. None even made significant impacts their 2nd year.

If players are so highly touted and will make that much of an impact in the NBA right out of high school then they are not missing out on any money.

Rookie pay for the #1 pick is $4.4m.

LBJ signed a $90m contract with Nike and even received a sizable enough loan based on his projected out come to roll around CLE in a Hummer while still in high school.

The top paid player in Europe makes $4.2m per year and could not cut it in the NBA playing a grand total of 138 NBA games starting in 18 of them. If a top US player were to play in Europe their paycheck would be considerably larger than that not to mention their international marketability would grow immensely.

?ar?nas Jasikevi?ius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What about skills development? This is where you may have an edge but with D and Euro league options and the elite coaching of the NCAAB I doubt it is much if any.