Game Thread: Chiefs V Browns 1/17/2021

[Yo Tee]

He may have been referring to the helmet to helmet the ref missed as the ball clearly went through the EZ. Not reviewable. And to be fair, when you are watching the WR, his feet, OOB, the ball, the pylon it's hard to also see how Sorenson hit him.

It is easier to play Couch Referee than Real NFL Referee, I'm sure lol. Such a tough call and a tough rule that I think might be revisited this offseason.

 

[dtgold88]

I think we can all agree that the Browns got hosed. I just know that there was a point in time in the game where the Browns could've won and had the Chiefs on the ropes and they couldn't quite get it done.

Yep....I liken this to the saints coach and fans complaining about a far more blatant call when they still could have stopped the Rams, still could have scored in OT and still could have stopped the Rams again in OT...but didn't.

Doesn't seem to be in his nature, but wouldn't mind Stefanski going on a rant to get them to finally get rid of that ridiculous rule though. Never liked it.

 

[dtgold88]

It sucked for sure but it's not like it was made with 5 seconds left in the game. Who knows how the Chiefs would have played it down by two instead of up by 5.

Edit: actually would have been down by 1 or 3 as the Browns would have assuredly went for 2

Now THAT would have been a Browns way to lose if in the last minute.

 

[dtgold88]

I'll never understand why Henne>Moore in the eyes of Reid. Henne is catastrophically bad even with Hill/Kelce to carry some of his play. Happy with the playcalls in a vacuum, but Henne is a prototypical fuckup backup QB.

allowing a pass on 2nd down (which resulted in a sack to even make it 3rd and 14) was typical poor clock management by Reid. He also never should have allowed the Browns time at the end of the first half to even get the ball back with time enough to drive down the field for what should have been a score. 3rd and 14 a little risky and I would have gone for the 4th and inches and realize that play has worked, but a sneak seemed like a better call without hindsight.

 

[dtgold88]

Yep like most pointed out, speed was the ultimate difference in this game. Mahomes is great and made great reads but I only saw maybe one throw that was contested, most were wide open. It seemed like almost every throw Baker made was heavily contested and he needed to fit in a tight window and he did. He had 4 incompletions in the 1H all were dropped passes. Speed was the difference and KC obviously had a better defense and a fastee defense.

Main priorities
DE - If Vernon’s pricetag is too high, let him go. Get a speed rusher DE opposite of Garrett. They need DL help.

Do-it-all LB - we saw what Devin White waa to TB’s defense. The Browns just have a lot of average, slow LB’s. I think Phillips is their fastest LB and he is a rookie.

DB - I don’t trust Greedy. Maybe bring back Mitchell for 3CB but they need another CB with ball skils and speed.

WR - Still think they need another weapon. It isn’t a top priority but always great to have a deep WR depth chart. OBJ could be back but we don’t know when and if he will be the same or he might be traded. I like Landry, DPJ and Higgins but they need more speed..guys that can get open.

Totally agree with that first comment. Mahomes is great, no doubt and not sure we make it close with him not going out, but Baker played as well and we still lose if QBs switched places. Was mostly easy pitch and catch for Mahomes and announcers gave him way too much credit when more should have gone to Redi, the OC and the others around him.

Not even sure Vernon can play most of next year so for sure need someone else at DE. Would love Claybourn back, as well for depth.

LB? Depends what they think they need at the position. Would love a gamewrecker, but they might think money better spent elsewhere and Phillips and Takitaki improve as they have more time in league AND learn system. Hope they bring Goodson back

CB? No doubt cannot count on Greedy, but doubt with Ward about to be paid a ton they spend big here. agree hope Mitchell is back. Guessing they like Delpit and Harrison as safeties.

WR? do they NEED more speed there? Not so sure as until this game they were going up and down the field on some pretty tough defenses. OBJ - if healthy - could be enough but need Higgins back. also, maybe DPJ can improve as well.

gonna sting for a while, but things will be exciting again when FA starts.

 

[dtgold88]

It is easier to play Couch Referee than Real NFL Referee, I'm sure lol. Such a tough call and a tough rule that I think might be revisited this offseason.

Guessing it happens so infrequently is the reason hasn't been revisited. But cannot believe someone came up with the idea the defense should get the ball after a fumble they didn't recover. Worse, others in the room had to say, "good idea".

Referees definitely make a number of bad calls but many don't take into account how tough their job is compared to, say, a MLB ump. I mean on the play mentioned look at everything he has to watch. Also think it's true they could call a hold on every play, but do we want that?

 

[dtgold88]

Right, there are so many variables in the game that would have been different. The Browns certainly would have been in a better position but its hard to say if the rest of the game plays out in the same way at all if the game had been closer at the half. Maybe Mahomes never gets knocked out? Chaos Theory and all.

Haha...I've made the same point to others who say if they get it right we win. Just add the 6-7 points. Didn't use Chaos Theory, but instead Doc Brown's Space Time Contiunnum. Same reason as you...who knows if they get that TD everything else goes the same and Mahomes still goes down.

 

[Yo Tee]

Guessing it happens so infrequently is the reason hasn't been revisited. But cannot believe someone came up with the idea the defense should get the ball after a fumble they didn't recover. Worse, others in the room had to say, "good idea".

Referees definitely make a number of bad calls but many don't take into account how tough their job is compared to, say, a MLB ump. I mean on the play mentioned look at everything he has to watch. Also think it's true they could call a hold on every play, but do we want that?

Trusting 1 set of eyes to see the ball, the defender, the receiver, the receiver's feet, the OOB line, the pylon, did the receiver keep possession, did the ball cross the EZ line, how did the defender hit the receiver, did a knee come down, where is the correct spot of the ball...that's fucking impossible.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Beat me to it. agree. Other than this game they moved up and down the field on some tough defenses the last couple months. Speed on defense more important. Maybe that comes with Greedy and Delpit (don't know their speed) but cannot count on Greedy. Faster LB would help.

Linebacker is biggest need imo.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

allowing a pass on 2nd down (which resulted in a sack to even make it 3rd and 14) was typical poor clock management by Reid. He also never should have allowed the Browns time at the end of the first half to even get the ball back with time enough to drive down the field for what should have been a score. 3rd and 14 a little risky and I would have gone for the 4th and inches and realize that play has worked, but a sneak seemed like a better call without hindsight.

I think I fundamentally disagree philosophically.

Even with Henne, there's just too many weapons to just not go for the kill there, especially with a suspect runblocking OL with a backup QB behind center. You probably fall on your sword more often than not, but especially with the Browns gameflow in the 2nd half, the relatively ultra-aggressive pass is the right call to go for the kill, imo. All playcalls are kind of fucked once the QB is Chad Henne so you may as well take your shot and live with it. I don't think the Chiefs win if the Browns get the ball back in that sequence. I truly don't.

As for the sneak: That's a fair argument, the catch probability for the pass was ~90% though, it was very wide open and a very easy throw. My understanding is that Henne had a selection of calls the Chiefs liked in that situation (from pre-game) and that was the one Henne chose. I probably would've opted for a sneak if the Browns weren't guarding against it pre-snap initially myself. Reid seems to have been spooked away from them every since Mahomes' dislocated knee.

 

[dtgold88]

Trusting 1 set of eyes to see the ball, the defender, the receiver, the receiver's feet, the OOB line, the pylon, did the receiver keep possession, did the ball cross the EZ line, how did the defender hit the receiver, did a knee come down, where is the correct spot of the ball...that's fucking impossible.

Right. Not exactly like deciding if runner makes it to first ahead of throw (when you can hear foot his base and ball in glove) for instance. and many calls they make have a number of players around the ball or wherever the call is.

 

[Black Adam]

Should have been called, though. Add in the touchback rule being extreme, and that's a whole lot of frustration. Especially when you're pulling for The Browns to win (points to self).

A Browns / Bills AFC Championship would have been pretty cool.

Chiefs hater. Figures...

 

[dtgold88]

I think I fundamentally disagree philosophically.

Even with Henne, there's just too many weapons to just not go for the kill there, especially with a suspect runblocking OL with a backup QB behind center. You probably fall on your sword more often than not, but especially with the Browns gameflow in the 2nd half, the relatively ultra-aggressive pass is the right call to go for the kill, imo. All playcalls are kind of fucked once the QB is Chad Henne so you may as well take your shot and live with it. I don't think the Chiefs win if the Browns get the ball back in that sequence. I truly don't.

As for the sneak: That's a fair argument, the catch probability for the pass was ~90% though, it was very wide open and a very easy throw. My understanding is that Henne had a selection of calls the Chiefs liked in that situation (from pre-game) and that was the one Henne chose. I probably would've opted for a sneak if the Browns weren't guarding against it pre-snap initially myself. Reid seems to have been spooked away from them every since Mahomes' dislocated knee.

Other games I agree we probably score if given a chance but we had that chance the previous drive and could barely get more than 5-6 yards on any pass. Last TD took 18 plays.

And wasn't it 2nd and 6-7 before the sack? I have to run again if I'm then. Maybe I throw on 3rd if they don't get enough on 2nd. The 4th I don't hate as much as a KC fan as does seem like it's worked a lot in past (and did work), but seems like that sneak was a lock. Too much could have gone wrong on the pass. Just my opinion.

 

[dtgold88]

Not sour grapes, just curious....anyone know what happens if ref does call the helmet to helmet on Sorenson on the Higgins play? Does happen before fumble goes out (could even argue helped cause the fumble) so would think the fumble would not count. Is it still a reception and halfway to goal from spot of foul?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Not sour grapes, just curious....anyone know what happens if ref does call the helmet to helmet on Sorenson on the Higgins play? Does happen before fumble goes out (could even argue helped cause the fumble) so would think the fumble would not count. Is it still a reception and halfway to goal from spot of foul?

Would be put on the 3 inch line roughly.

 

[dtgold88]

Would be put on the 3 inch line roughly.

3 inches being half the distance to GL?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

3 inches being half the distance to GL?

Yes.

 

[Southieinnc]

Is it fair to say that they are both lowering their head?

That's idiotic. The receiver was diving for the goal line. The defender was targeting with the crown of the helmet.

 

[Southieinnc]

This isn't the play that ruined the Browns season. It was the last play of the game. This play was called correctly based on the rule book. Can't say that it wasn't controversial OR that the rule shouldn't be changed, but that's a totally different conversation.

The play was reviewed. Once it goes to review they have the authority to review the penalty.

 

[dtgold88]

The play was reviewed. Once it goes to review they have the authority to review the penalty.

Rules guy said they do not.