Chase watch

[DanBengalfan]

thread to summarize Jamaar Chase contract debacle and hold-out hold-in

is it possible he misses the entire week 1 game? I believe he would lose money (which I guess would be given back to him in the form of a new contract)

I think he's been given some bad advice somewhere along the line.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Bengals continue to take Ja'Marr Chase's status 'day to day' as WR sits out practice again

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'm relenting on my stance of this is too early for Chase. Several of the other 1st round picks have secured long-term extensions. The precedent I would have been concerned about has already been broken.

At this point - it is coming down to dollars and cents. Considering where the WR market is trending - if Chase just wants to be the highest paid by $1...then just do the Jefferson deal and give him $1 more...be it overall or guaranteed.

I do wonder, though, if the guarantee portion is an issue for the Bengals...and IF that is the case, despite them voting "no" on the recent movement for investment firms - they are going to have to consider this if they are going to continue to be competitive in signing high(er) level players.

 

[Cincyfan78]

 

[cincygrad]

I'm relenting on my stance of this is too early for Chase. Several of the other 1st round picks have secured long-term extensions. The precedent I would have been concerned about has already been broken.

At this point - it is coming down to dollars and cents. Considering where the WR market is trending - if Chase just wants to be the highest paid by $1...then just do the Jefferson deal and give him $1 more...be it overall or guaranteed.

I do wonder, though, if the guarantee portion is an issue for the Bengals...and IF that is the case, despite them voting "no" on the recent movement for investment firms - they are going to have to consider this if they are going to continue to be competitive in signing high(er) level players.

I wonder what this does for top 10 picks going forward. If you are a top 10 pick and you quickly emerge as a top 10 player at your position, you will always be left in the same situation as Chase. That is, going into your fourth year with only a million dollars to make on your contract for year 4 and staring at team control with a bigger payday in year 5. Most players and agents are going to object to having so little salary for that year 4. With quarterbacks, the league has moved to pay them after year 3. With Chase, we're seeing a precedent to sign non-QBs after year 3. It's something to watch because it impacts how star players will be treated in the future.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I think it boils down to the Bengals not planning to do it this year, before the season started. They made him an offer, it wasn't enough money, even though it was really good, so now he sits.

They are hoping that he comes to his senses and starts playing around week 2, so they can figure it out at the end of the season. also, if he takes a step back (possibly due to an injury) the Bengals will be holding the cards at the end of the season.

 

[cincygrad]

I think it boils down to the Bengals not planning to do it this year, before the season started. They made him an offer, it wasn't enough money, even though it was really good, so now he sits.

They are hoping that he comes to his senses and starts playing around week 2, so they can figure it out at the end of the season. also, if he takes a step back (possibly due to an injury) the Bengals will be holding the cards at the end of the season.

I heard a report that it was the Bengals that were actually frustrated by the lack of motivation in the late spring or early summer. I think they were interested in getting something done before JJ set the market and the other deals followed. Chase's representation was going to wait until all the dominos fell..... I think this is where Mike Brown's point about 'the time for negotiation being passed' might have come from.

That said, the Bengals have cut a lot of contract extensions between Labor Day weekend and the first game. I have to believe they are working on this one and there is a path for it to get done.

If they don't do it this week and they wait until next offseason, it's going to be super annoying when we do the whole hold-in thing again and have a second straight camp without our best player not named Burrow.

 

[cincygrad]

LOL

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[Cincyfan78]

I heard a report that it was the Bengals that were actually frustrated by the lack of motivation in the late spring or early summer. I think they were interested in getting something done before JJ set the market and the other deals followed. Chase's representation was going to wait until all the dominos fell..... I think this is where Mike Brown's point about 'the time for negotiation being passed' might have come from.

That said, the Bengals have cut a lot of contract extensions between Labor Day weekend and the first game. I have to believe they are working on this one and there is a path for it to get done.

If they don't do it this week and they wait until next offseason, it's going to be super annoying when we do the whole hold-in thing again and have a second straight camp without our best player not named Burrow.

I think it makes sense to extend some of these guys with 2 years left. Going back to your other post - if you are a 1st round guy and are set to make $4M in year 3 and have been a top 10 player....and the 5th year option is going to be roughly 35-45% of the going rate for that position...I get it. It also means that if you AREN'T one of those guys playing at that level - it keeps your contract in check. So - I think, the more I look on this, there is some nice middle ground with this precedent. Of course, you'll have guys who don't deserve it asking for money - and that is where teams will need to really hold firm - but if you are talking about a top 10-ish guy...I think there's reason to be flexible here.

The Bengals are largely run by Katie and Troy now - I know Brown speaks, but honestly - I'm not so sure that Brown really gets into the weeds, but maybe he still does. Ultimately, whoever it is, needs to realize that this deal isn't going to get cheaper - it's going to get more expensive. Sure, you can hope that eventually Chase plays for his $1M for the rest of this year, and shows up next year for his $22M 5th year option....and sure, you can tag him in '26 - but why go through this? If the goal is to keep him, and that has always been the goal - why not realize that getting this done sooner, than later, is more beneficial to ALL sides of the party.

It's hard to know really where to stand because we really don't know, currently, what the Bengals are offering. If they are offering 32-33M, I mean - I do think that is fair. Chase, while a top 5 WR, isn't Jefferson. I don't think there's any shame in the Bengals pointing this out. So, if Chase is dug in on getting more money than Jefferson....then the Bengals either need to blink, or Chase needs to realize that, while he is VERY good at what he does - he's not the #1 guy - and he shouldn't be paid like it. It's a hit to the Ego, for sure - but....it is what it is.

 

[cincygrad]

I think it makes sense to extend some of these guys with 2 years left. Going back to your other post - if you are a 1st round guy and are set to make $4M in year 3 and have been a top 10 player....and the 5th year option is going to be roughly 35-45% of the going rate for that position...I get it. It also means that if you AREN'T one of those guys playing at that level - it keeps your contract in check. So - I think, the more I look on this, there is some nice middle ground with this precedent. Of course, you'll have guys who don't deserve it asking for money - and that is where teams will need to really hold firm - but if you are talking about a top 10-ish guy...I think there's reason to be flexible here.

The Bengals are largely run by Katie and Troy now - I know Brown speaks, but honestly - I'm not so sure that Brown really gets into the weeds, but maybe he still does. Ultimately, whoever it is, needs to realize that this deal isn't going to get cheaper - it's going to get more expensive. Sure, you can hope that eventually Chase plays for his $1M for the rest of this year, and shows up next year for his $22M 5th year option....and sure, you can tag him in '26 - but why go through this? If the goal is to keep him, and that has always been the goal - why not realize that getting this done sooner, than later, is more beneficial to ALL sides of the party.

It's hard to know really where to stand because we really don't know, currently, what the Bengals are offering. If they are offering 32-33M, I mean - I do think that is fair. Chase, while a top 5 WR, isn't Jefferson. I don't think there's any shame in the Bengals pointing this out. So, if Chase is dug in on getting more money than Jefferson....then the Bengals either need to blink, or Chase needs to realize that, while he is VERY good at what he does - he's not the #1 guy - and he shouldn't be paid like it. It's a hit to the Ego, for sure - but....it is what it is.

To your point, if the Bengals would have offered Tee 15-18 million per year after the '22 season, we would still have him for two more years after this season. And in '22 dollars, that would have been a high-end deal, so he might have taken it. I honestly think this would be the Bengals strategy - A couple of stars and an otherwise young roster, but the guarantees are big issues for them.

 

[Cincyfan78]

To your point, if the Bengals would have offered Tee 15-18 million per year after the '22 season, we would still have him for two more years after this season. And in '22 dollars, that would have been a high-end deal, so he might have taken it. I honestly think this would be the Bengals strategy - A couple of stars and an otherwise young roster, but the guarantees are big issues for them.

Yes - but remember that Higgins was a 2nd rounder...so, likely a different scenario - but I don't disagree with your overall premise...

 

[Cincyfan78]

Something to keep in mind - the '21 class has extended quite a few guys in that top 10 range - and the majority are NOT QB's...

Also - I'm going to point out that while *some* may not want Chase to get Jefferson money - Lawrence did tie Burrow as the top QB - and let's be honest - Chase is a LOT closer to Jefferson status than Lawrence is to Burrow status...

1. Trevor Lawrence: EXT
2. Zach Wilson: Trade
3. Trey Lance: Trade
4. Kyle Pitts
5. Ja'Marr Chase - ??
6. Jaylen Waddle: EXT
7. Penei Sewell: EXT
8. Jaycee Horn
9. Patrick Surtain II: EXT
10 .DeVonta Smith: EXT

 

[cincygrad]

Something to keep in mind - the '21 class has extended quite a few guys in that top 10 range - and the majority are NOT QB's...

Also - I'm going to point out that while *some* may not want Chase to get Jefferson money - Lawrence did tie Burrow as the top QB - and let's be honest - Chase is a LOT closer to Jefferson status than Lawrence is to Burrow status...

1. Trevor Lawrence: EXT
2. Zach Wilson: Trade
3. Trey Lance: Trade
4. Kyle Pitts
5. Ja'Marr Chase - ??
6. Jaylen Waddle: EXT
7. Penei Sewell: EXT
8. Jaycee Horn
9. Patrick Surtain II: EXT
10 .DeVonta Smith: EXT

Trevor Lawrence is still benefiting from the hype he had as a pro prospect. I remember most folks claiming that he was the best overall prospect since Andrew Luck. And now it seems like we are still making excuses for him three years later. His first year was destroyed by the Urban Meyer era.... The second year ended with a promising playoff performance.... Third year would have gone better had he not been hurt in the stretch run. Anyway, I think the Jags had to pay him top dollar, but I also think there are still some valid questions about whether he'll ever be one of the top 5 QBs in the game.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Trevor Lawrence is still benefiting from the hype he had as a pro prospect. I remember most folks claiming that he was the best overall prospect since Andrew Luck. And now it seems like we are still making excuses for him three years later. His first year was destroyed by the Urban Meyer era.... The second year ended with a promising playoff performance.... Third year would have gone better had he not been hurt in the stretch run. Anyway, I think the Jags had to pay him top dollar, but I also think there are still some valid questions about whether he'll ever be one of the top 5 QBs in the game.

Totally agree.

Was drawing a bit of a parallel there with Chase. He's not the best at his spot - but he's much closer to Jefferson than Lawrence is to Burrow...so, taking a bit of a step back and trying to see the bigger picture of how this plays out for this year plus where WR salaries are going to go next year and beyond...If it takes $1M more to get it done...I've pretty much talked myself into getting it done.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Bengals are going to use Higgins and Iosivas as starting receivers week 1, Burrow can get it done with this offense.
Burton and Jones are fun to watch too.
Irwin is a classy backup dude.
I think the Bengals are ready to gamble on this. Chase will lose some money before he gets paid.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Bengals are going to use Higgins and Iosivas as starting receivers week 1, Burrow can get it done with this offense.
Burton and Jones are fun to watch too.
Irwin is a classy backup dude.
I think the Bengals are ready to gamble on this. Chase will lose some money before he gets paid.

Jefferson warned Chase to get what was his, but also don't let it affect his availability for games...you don't get those back. Eventually - Chase will get paid.

And I've been saying what you just did for awhile now - Chase already doesn't have a ton of leverage contract-wise, but he also isn't killing the Bengals by not being out on the field. Don't get me wrong - not having Chase isn't ideal...but it's not like Jefferson in Minn where if he's out - who you throwing to?

Here you have Higgins, you have Yoshi who has shown marked improvement from last year. You have Jones in the slot, Irwin and of course Burton. Then at TE you have Gesicki, All, and Hudson - all of whom you can split out - and still have Sample blocking. You also can get Brown/Moss involved in the passing game some as well. The Bengals have options.

So, no - it's not ideal that Chase not be out there, but the cupboard isn't bare, either.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Chase - back at practice today.

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[cincygrad]

Jefferson warned Chase to get what was his, but also don't let it affect his availability for games...you don't get those back. Eventually - Chase will get paid.

And I've been saying what you just did for awhile now - Chase already doesn't have a ton of leverage contract-wise, but he also isn't killing the Bengals by not being out on the field. Don't get me wrong - not having Chase isn't ideal...but it's not like Jefferson in Minn where if he's out - who you throwing to?

Here you have Higgins, you have Yoshi who has shown marked improvement from last year. You have Jones in the slot, Irwin and of course Burton. Then at TE you have Gesicki, All, and Hudson - all of whom you can split out - and still have Sample blocking. You also can get Brown/Moss involved in the passing game some as well. The Bengals have options.

So, no - it's not ideal that Chase not be out there, but the cupboard isn't bare, either.

To be fair to Minnesota, Jordan Addison put up over 900 yards with a bunch of bums throwing him the ball last year. Hockinson is good too. And they have a better play-caller than we do. While we have Higgins, the rest of the guys you mention are listed more for potential than anything they have done.

 

[Cincyfan78]

To be fair to Minnesota, Jordan Addison put up over 900 yards with a bunch of bums throwing him the ball last year. Hockinson is good too. And they have a better play-caller than we do. While we have Higgins, the rest of the guys you mention are listed more for potential than anything they have done.

Maybe we'll disagree on this - and that's ok...I just think that the Bengals are set up this year to weather a Chase hold-out more so than the Vikings were last year had Jefferson not played...but thankfully - I don't know if it'll matter because Chase decided to practice today - and is on track to be in the starting lineup Sunday.....

 

[cincygrad]

Maybe we'll disagree on this - and that's ok...I just think that the Bengals are set up this year to weather a Chase hold-out more so than the Vikings were last year had Jefferson not played...but thankfully - I don't know if it'll matter because Chase decided to practice today - and is on track to be in the starting lineup Sunday.....

The QB is obviously the most important piece. If the Vikings had a healthy Joe Burrow, he would have cooked with or without Jefferson.... I think that is mostly true for the Bengals as well. Burrow has been fine without Chase. Is it optimal? No. But it's not like the offense shuts down without him.