CBA Talks

[calsnowskier]

A real floor is 90% of the ceiling

Shame on the players for nkt demanding that when the cbt was broached

I don’t really care what the actual floor/ceiling would be. I got the $215 from the current level and I think the lower-end teams sit at about $80.

Should they make the floor $150? OK, but you know the owners won’t OK that. $120? That might be more palatable.

Another thought I had was about the cap discount teams would get for signing “their own players”. That discount would only apply to the ceiling, not the floor. Should this discount carry over in a trade? That could be a way to introduce sign/trades to MLB. But that would, in essence, just reintroduce FA compensation…

 

[The Q]

I don’t really care what the actual floor/ceiling would be. I got the $215 from the current level and I think the lower-end teams sit at about $80.

Should they make the floor $150? OK, but you know the owners won’t OK that. $120? That might be more palatable.

Another thought I had was about the cap discount teams would get for signing “their own players”. That discount would only apply to the ceiling, not the floor.

Then there should be no cap

There is no competitive balance issue

Only dumb fans believe that

 

[calsnowskier]

Then there should be no cap

There is no competitive balance issue

Only dumb fans believe that

The Padres have shown over the last few years that ANY team can become a top-spending team if they actually want to be one. I fully believe that no team can argue that they can’t afford to sign a FA or keep their own players. They simply CHOOSE not to sign them. So I probably agree with the fact that a ceiling is not needed, but a floor is needed.

 

[Cedrique]

The Padres have shown over the last few years that ANY team can become a top-spending team if they actually want to be one. I fully believe that no team can argue that they can’t afford to sign a FA or keep their own players. They simply CHOOSE not to sign them. So I probably agree with the fact that a ceiling is not needed, but a floor is needed.

I think instead of the floor it would be better to move up the arbitration a couple years. It seems like the payroll floor might benefit some veteran players (a lot of whom are overpaid) more. The guys that fall through the cracks sometimes are the ones that have great seasons early in their career when they are under the control of the team that drafted them, then because of injury or otherwise their careers go downhill and they never get a taste of the big money.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think instead of the floor it would be better to move up the arbitration a couple years. It seems like the payroll floor might benefit some veteran players (a lot of whom are overpaid) more. The guys that fall through the cracks sometimes are the ones that have great seasons early in their career when they are under the control of the team that drafted them, then because of injury or otherwise their careers go downhill and they never get a taste of the big money.

I actually don’t see a problem with the scenario you described. Why should a one-year-wonder get generational money?

In my big write up from the other day, I threw out that a player can hit FA after (or before, either way) his age 28 season, players are eligible for the rule V draft entering their age 25 season and every player without a MLB contract on the 40-man roster be eligible for Arb. This essentially removes the “clock” entirely and allows everyone to have their contracts to be influenced by the Arb process right out of the gate.

This structure could hurt late bloomers, though (like Mike Yastrzemski). If a team is not guaranteed a few years of service from a player who is 28 or 29, they likely won’t bother developing him. Maybe have some kind of system for players who don’t make a 40-man roster before they turn 28? Teams will always have at least 3 years of control of a player?

 

[Cedrique]

I actually don’t see a problem with the scenario you described. Why should a one-year-wonder get generational money?

In my big write up from the other day, I threw out that a player can hit FA after (or before, either way) his age 28 season, players are eligible for the rule V draft entering their age 25 season and every player without a MLB contract on the 40-man roster be eligible for Arb. This essentially removes the “clock” entirely and allows everyone to have their contracts to be influenced by the Arb process right out of the gate.

This structure could hurt late bloomers, though (like Mike Yastrzemski). If a team is not guaranteed a few years of service from a player who is 28 or 29, they likely won’t bother developing him. Maybe have some kind of system for players who don’t make a 40-man roster before they turn 28? Teams will always have at least 3 years of control of a player?

I haven't thought it through that much. I just wouldn't want to see a situation where a team that is loaded with young cheap talent is forced to spend stupid money, like a $30 mil. DH or something. For example the 2019 Rays. They were a very good 96 win WC team, buyers at the deadline and still had a very low payroll.
*I guess maybe the minimum payroll could work if you did it after the fact. Say in that example TB used 80 mil. in salary and the minimum was 110, you use an arbitrator or bonus system to distribute the leftover salary to everyone who was on the major league roster that season.

Like I said, I haven't looked that deeply into it. Regarding the one-year wonder it still wouldn't be generational money unless some team was willing to take a chance on them after the decline. As it is now, if a one or two year wonder has their great year really early they don't get paid but if they happen to have it the year before they become a free agent they can make ridiculous free agent money. Plus a guy that has 1-2 or 3 great seasons at the beginning of their career then fall off a cliff not only don't get paid but they also don't get enough service time to get the pension but the guy that's mediocre until having a great free agent year probably gets there because whatever team signs him for the big bucks is going to be reluctant to bench him. I guess there is no perfect system though

 

[molsaniceman]

The MLB and MLBPA met for over an hour Monday in Jupiter, Florida.​

It was actually about an hour and fifteen minutes. It's unclear if the two sides are done for the afternoon or are just taking a break, but we'll likely hear more clarity soon. Still, it has to be taken as good news after the two sides only met for 15 minutes last Thursday in New York. MLB has told the MLBPA that there needs to be an agreement on a new CBA by Feb. 28 to prevent delaying the start of the season. There are still big divides on the luxury tax and early arbitration-eligibility, among other things, so the clock is ticking.

 

[catman]

The back and forth appears to be positive. There are still a few gaps to be bridged, but it looks like a deal could come about this week.
Once a deal is struck, over 200 free agents have to be signed and into camp. There will be a frenzy of activity among agents and clubs for the next couple of weeks. Not really sure how some of the guys will be able to fit in with another team at this point.

 

[molsaniceman]

Monday's collective bargaining agreement negotiations between Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association have concluded.​

The two sides met at the bargaining table Monday afternoon in Jupiter, Florida, then caucused separately for several hours and finally met with each other again briefly before things broke up. According to Evan Drellich of The Athletic, among MLB's proposals included bumping the pre-arbitration bonus pool up $5 million to $20 million, as well as increase the number of lottery-eligible teams from three to four. The MLBPA's last ask was $115 million for the bonus pool and eight lottery-eligible clubs. Drellich says there was no revised Competitive Balance Tax proposal Monday. Meetings are expected to continue on Tuesday and throughout the week, as needed

 

[kcden]

That's hella stupid

Easy for a fan of a team that's made the playoffs in the past 20 years to say...

 

[Cedrique]

Are they seriously going to do this to us again? Even after Covid?

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

It's now coming down to billionaires arguing with millionaires just to negotiate over a few pennies on the dollar.
The only losers will be the fans, and all the folks, who work for hourly pay in various jobs at the various stadiums around the country in both MLB & MiLB...as well as their families.

 

[calsnowskier]

It's now coming down to billionaires arguing with millionaires just to negotiate over a few pennies on the dollar.
The only losers will be the fans, and all the folks, who work for hourly pay in various jobs at the various stadiums around the country in both MLB & MiLB...as well as their families.

How, exactly, does any of this affect MiLB teams?

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

How, exactly, does any of this affect MiLB teams?

Expenditures from their parent clubs?
But I was under the assumption that they would also be sanctioned if there were to be a lockdown.

MLB lockout: League requests ability to eliminate hundreds of minor-league roster spots, per report

This was reportedly part of MLB's latest proposal in CBA negotiations

www.cbssports.com

 

[The Q]

Are they seriously going to do this to us again? Even after Covid?

The owners are basically refusing to negotiate on 95% of things

 

[bksballer89]

The owners are basically refusing to negotiate on 95% of things

a lot of these issues seem very minor to me

 

[molsaniceman]

Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association met Wednesday for the third consecutive day at Roger Dean Stadium in Jupiter, Florida.​

Evan Drellich of The Athletic adds that MLB's only proposal during Wednesday's negotiating session, which lasted roughly five hours, was to raise the major-league minimum salary to $640,000 in 2022 with a $10,000 per-season increase moving forward. There are only a few days left for the two sides to finalize a new Collective Bargaining Agreement in order to avoid a delayed start to the 2022 regular season, yet they remain far apart on several core economic issues, including major-league minimum salary, pre-arbitration bonus pools, MLB Draft lottery slots and competitive balance tax (CBT) thresholds, which remain at the epicenter of the divide. The two sides are scheduled to meet for the fourth consecutive day on Thursday. There is a heightened sense of urgency, but little progress has been made over the last few days. The clock is ticking.

 

[Cedrique]

The owners are basically refusing to negotiate on 95% of things

That sounds like a yes. Hopefully this gets resolved soon

 

[molsaniceman]

Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association met Thursday for the fourth consecutive day at Roger Dean Stadium in Jupiter, Florida.​

The two sides met for around the same amount of time as Wednesday, and reportedly featured the MLBPA offering a counterproposal to MLB's latest offer. This latest meeting comes after a spokesperson for the league confirmed that games will be cancelled if there isn't a deal reached between the two parties before February 28

 

[bksballer89]