CBA Talks

[scotsman1948]

If you think that’s about the player salaries I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you

the player salaries are a big part of it. the avg team payroll right now for 2022 is around 115M and that's with 5 teams below 70Mand 2 of them below 30M.

 

[The Q]

the player salaries are a big part of it. the avg team payroll right now for 2022 is around 115M and that's with 5 teams below 70Mand 2 of them below 30M.

Every single team can afford that without selling a single ticket

 

[scotsman1948]

Every single team can afford that without selling a single ticket

so the owners shouldn't be allowed a profit and should pay it out of their pockets. i love the game. i don't like the owners but i also don't like the players. a player gets paid 650000+ a season if he plays 3-5 seasons, he would have earned between 1950000 and 3250000 even if allowing for agent fees, taxes etc. his earnings over that period are more than the average American worker could earn in 20 years at 42500 a year. and the overpaid superstars clear that in a year or 2

 

[The Q]

so the owners shouldn't be allowed a profit and should pay it out of their pockets. i love the game. i don't like the owners but i also don't like the players. a player gets paid 650000+ a season if he plays 3-5 seasons, he would have earned between 1950000 and 3250000 even if allowing for agent fees, taxes etc. his earnings over that period are more than the average American worker could earn in 20 years at 42500 a year. and the overpaid superstars clear that in a year or 2

You understand they make other revenue

Just through National contracts and revenue sharing gets everyone there

Then you have local advertising and sponsorship, tickets, concession and merch deals, etc

Plus the owners use the game to make money in side deals…that’s baseball related income that should be shared with the players

When the game grows, both sides should benefit. Not just one.

 

[scotsman1948]

You understand they make other revenue

Just through National contracts and revenue sharing gets everyone there

Then you have local advertising and sponsorship, tickets, concession and merch deals, etc

Plus the owners use the game to make money in side deals…that’s baseball related income that should be shared with the players

When the game grows, both sides should benefit. Not just one.

so both should take cuts. in that way they still win, and the fans get a break on ticket prices etc

 

[The Q]

so both should take cuts. in that way they still win, and the fans get a break on ticket prices etc

And yet only one side takes cuts

The side you’re backing

 

[TrevorClark98]

CBS Sports reports that we may miss an entire month of regular season games. Oh well, I have NHL and NBA playoff games to watch instead.

 

[scotsman1948]

And yet only one side takes cuts

The side you’re backing

i'm not backing either. they're all greedy SOB's

 

[MilkSpiller22]

i'm not backing either. they're all greedy SOB's

the biggest problem is that we are fans, we look at it through emotional eyes... the players and owners are entirely business, and dont care one bit about the fans...

Honestly, i wish all these sports allowed a third party to negotiate with them, that supported its fans... i think the fans could tell both sides something!!!

 

[The Q]

the biggest problem is that we are fans, we look at it through emotional eyes... the players and owners are entirely business, and dont care one bit about the fans...

Honestly, i wish all these sports allowed a third party to negotiate with them, that supported its fans... i think the fans could tell both sides something!!!

The commissioner needs to be an independent third party like it started

 

[calsnowskier]

personally, i hate when people throw the i will stop watching this shit... its equal to the move to canada after the election...

If you are a baseball fan, you will watch baseball no matter what... if you dont, then you were not TRULY a baseball fan...

now, i do understand, the older you get, the less you care... but thats not here or there...


and its kind of the point... whether right or wrong, they are making these changes partially to get the average fan back...(other than money being the clear reason)...

if it gets more people to watch, and pisses off the loyal fans, they will call that a win... because it is...

Yes and no.

The DH goes against the core of the game and removes a MAJOR strategic portion of the game. I don’t want to rehash the arguments against it here, it has been done 10k times already on this board. But that is not a minor change.

And expanding the playoffs to 50% of teams completely changes the focus of the game. It is no longer a marathon. It becomes like the NBA where teams don’t really care about the regular season. I love that baseball in particular is almost like a biathlon type sport. A team needs to survive the marathon (while being one of the elite few teams), then change gears to play the sprint portion of the game. That dichotomy is beautiful. Essentially eliminating the marathon aspect makes it a different sport.

I dedicate too much time to this sport as it is. If they are going to change it to eliminate its uniqueness, I will find other activities to spend my time. This won’t happen at once, of course. I am still too invested in the game to walk away cold turkey, and there are habits involved that need to be broken, but I can see myself unsubscribing from the MLBApp, for example by next season, and once that happens, I am likely gone (I am out of market to “my team”.

I fully understand that the game doesn’t care about me. I am a late-40s upper middle class male without children. They could literally not care less about marketing to me. I understand that. But if these changes are made, I can absolutely see myself leaving the game by ‘23 or ‘24.

 

[The Q]

Yes and no.

The DH goes against the core of the game and removes a MAJOR strategic portion of the game. I don’t want to rehash the arguments against it here, it has been done 10k times already on this board. But that is not a minor change.

And expanding the playoffs to 50% of teams completely changes the focus of the game. It is no longer a marathon. It becomes like the NBA where teams don’t really care about the regular season. I love that baseball in particular is almost like a biathlon type sport. A team needs to survive the marathon (while being one of the elite few teams), then change gears to play the sprint portion of the game. That dichotomy is beautiful. Essentially eliminating the marathon aspect makes it a different sport.

I dedicate too much time to this sport as it is. If they are going to change it to eliminate its uniqueness, I will find other activities to spend my time. This won’t happen at once, of course. I am still too invested in the game to walk away cold turkey, and there are habits involved that need to be broken, but I can see myself unsubscribing from the MLBApp, for example by next season, and once that happens, I am likely gone (I am out of market to “my team”.

I fully understand that the game doesn’t care about me. I am a late-40s upper middle class male without children. They could literally not care less about marketing to me. I understand that. But if these changes are made, I can absolutely see myself leaving the game by ‘23 or ‘24.

Agree with most, but the dh thing is a complete myth

 

[calsnowskier]

so both should take cuts. in that way they still win, and the fans get a break on ticket prices etc

Again, ticket prices will NOT be capped. Nor SHOULD they.

teams will sell their tix for as much as their market will allow. If someone is willing to spend $150 on a seat, why should a team be forced to sell it for $75?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yes and no.

The DH goes against the core of the game and removes a MAJOR strategic portion of the game. I don’t want to rehash the arguments against it here, it has been done 10k times already on this board. But that is not a minor change.

And expanding the playoffs to 50% of teams completely changes the focus of the game. It is no longer a marathon. It becomes like the NBA where teams don’t really care about the regular season. I love that baseball in particular is almost like a biathlon type sport. A team needs to survive the marathon (while being one of the elite few teams), then change gears to play the sprint portion of the game. That dichotomy is beautiful. Essentially eliminating the marathon aspect makes it a different sport.

I dedicate too much time to this sport as it is. If they are going to change it to eliminate its uniqueness, I will find other activities to spend my time. This won’t happen at once, of course. I am still too invested in the game to walk away cold turkey, and there are habits involved that need to be broken, but I can see myself unsubscribing from the MLBApp, for example by next season, and once that happens, I am likely gone (I am out of market to “my team”.

I fully understand that the game doesn’t care about me. I am a late-40s upper middle class male without children. They could literally not care less about marketing to me. I understand that. But if these changes are made, I can absolutely see myself leaving the game by ‘23 or ‘24.

people, as they get older tend to lose interest in things anyway... i do think if you do lose interest you would have likely lost interest anyway... but for the most part watching the game is not going to change.... so...

 

[calsnowskier]

Agree with most, but the dh thing is a complete myth

Completely disagree. But like I said, that argument has been had elsewhere ad naseum.

Agree to disagree.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Again, ticket prices will NOT be capped. Nor SHOULD they.

teams will sell their tix for as much as their market will allow. If someone is willing to spend $150 on a seat, why should a team be forced to sell it for $75?

i do wonder how much the small market teams tickets have increased... do they even get big business to come to their games??

big market teams the ticket prices will always increase, and it has nothing to do with player salaries...

 

[calsnowskier]

i do wonder how much the small market teams tickets have increased... do they even get big business to come to their games??

big market teams the ticket prices will always increase, and it has nothing to do with player salaries...

If the small market teams can’t get corporate sales, that means they need to sell more individual tickets, which essentially increases the supply, which essentially will drop the price due to scarcity. Which means that they are still selling their tix at max value.

The Pirates and Yankees, I suspect (I am not looking it up), do not sell for the same prices. The Yankees have a larger fan base (more demand) as well as (arguably) a better product. It makes sense that the Spanks would sell for higher prices than the Bucs.

 

[molsaniceman]

only a fool dont think salary increases wont effect ticket prices

Across the board, TickPick reported Opening Day prices up 53% when compared with the first game of 2019. It said the average ticket price for 2021 openers is $162.21, up from $105.74 in 2019.

After the Dodgers, who also top the 30 teams with a $246,429,833 payroll according to Spotrac, the teams with the most dramatic increases are the New York Mets (174%), Los Angeles Angels (160%), Kansas City Royals (157%), and Oakland Athletics (148%). All were active adding veteran players through trades and free-agent signings.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

only a fool dont think salary increases wont effect ticket prices

Across the board, TickPick reported Opening Day prices up 53% when compared with the first game of 2019. It said the average ticket price for 2021 openers is $162.21, up from $105.74 in 2019.

After the Dodgers, who also top the 30 teams with a $246,429,833 payroll according to Spotrac, the teams with the most dramatic increases are the New York Mets (174%), Los Angeles Angels (160%), Kansas City Royals (157%), and Oakland Athletics (148%). All were active adding veteran players through trades and free-agent signings.

I guess it is a complicated subject. Because owners are very greedy. They don’t care about profits. They care about profiting more than they have in the past.

The point is that owners can afford these players without increasing the tickets. And it the ticket prices are pure supply and demand. But if they can get away with increasing the prices. Of course they will. But their attempt in raising is not specifically because of the increase of payroll. It’s more that they just think they can get it.

 

[calsnowskier]

only a fool dont think salary increases wont effect ticket prices

Across the board, TickPick reported Opening Day prices up 53% when compared with the first game of 2019. It said the average ticket price for 2021 openers is $162.21, up from $105.74 in 2019.

After the Dodgers, who also top the 30 teams with a $246,429,833 payroll according to Spotrac, the teams with the most dramatic increases are the New York Mets (174%), Los Angeles Angels (160%), Kansas City Royals (157%), and Oakland Athletics (148%). All were active adding veteran players through trades and free-agent signings.

The salaries had nothing to do with those increases. The teams raised their prices because they thought the market could bare the increase. Period.

If a team could charge $175 for a seat, you think they would choose to only charge $100?


And 2021 had very limited seats available due to Covid restrictions. I don’t think any park was open to 100% attendance. Scarcity in product = increased prices.