Calvin Johnson says the Lions need to win a Super Bowl

[TrustMeIamRight]

So drafting Bentley in the 3rd round two years ago, then Slay at the top of the 2nd round last year is ignoring the position?

You guys crack me up sometimes (ok, a lot of times). We didn't draft a CB in the first three rounds this year, that's hardly ignoring the position...

Ignoring.........no. Mayhew thinking he is smarter than other GM's regarding CB's because he played the position........yes.

We've invested not one, but two 1st round picks on the TE position in the past 6 years. Only ONE other team in the NFL has spent a 1st round pick on the TE position during those 6 years (Cincinnati Bengals).

I would much rather see the Lions invest high picks on their secondary, instead of relying on castoffs from the Jags or hoping to hit on castoffs we trade for who couldn't start for the team we got them from. It worked a few times -- with Eric Wright and Chris Houston, but if Detroit wants to get a quality CB, they have to invest the pick to do so or hope to strike gold in the mid to late rounds like some teams have done.

Spending a 3rd round pick doesn't sound too bad until you see he was actually the 11th CB off the board when we took him. The top talent was gone and Detroit was left with the best of the rest. I believe that is why we saw them take CB's in both the 5th and 6th rounds too. After all the CB's flew off the baord early and often into the 3rd round -- Detroit went with the quantity over quality approach and hoped to strike gold with one of them.

There is a reason why the one CB on our roster who has the potential to be really good is Darius Slay. Detroit invested a top 40 pick on him. He was either the 4th or 5th CB off the board, I believe. Unfortunately for Detroit -- they still have needs at the position, even with Slay, who I have said I think will end up a very good player. Not sure if putting him as our #1 in a new defensive scheme is going to bode well for him though this year. I really hope I'm wrong though as he seeems like he has a really good head on his shoulders.

 

[themuzzer]

So drafting Bentley in the 3rd round two years ago, then Slay at the top of the 2nd round last year is ignoring the position?

You guys crack me up sometimes (ok, a lot of times). We didn't draft a CB in the first three rounds this year, that's hardly ignoring the position...

Is it fixed? then it isn't addressed.......The Lions could of drafted 7 CBs two years ago but if they all suck it wasn't fixed or addressed.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Ignoring.........no. Mayhew thinking he is smarter than other GM's regarding CB's because he played the position........yes.

We've invested not one, but two 1st round picks on the TE position in the past 6 years. Only ONE other team in the NFL has spent a 1st round pick on the TE position during those 6 years (Cincinnati Bengals).

I would much rather see the Lions invest high picks on their secondary, instead of relying on castoffs from the Jags or hoping to hit on castoffs we trade for who couldn't start for the team we got them from. It worked a few times -- with Eric Wright and Chris Houston, but if Detroit wants to get a quality CB, they have to invest the pick to do so or hope to strike gold in the mid to late rounds like some teams have done.

Spending a 3rd round pick doesn't sound too bad until you see he was actually the 11th CB off the board when we took him. The top talent was gone and Detroit was left with the best of the rest. I believe that is why we saw them take CB's in both the 5th and 6th rounds too. After all the CB's flew off the baord early and often into the 3rd round -- Detroit went with the quantity over quality approach and hoped to strike gold with one of them.

There is a reason why the one CB on our roster who has the potential to be really good is Darius Slay. Detroit invested a top 40 pick on him. He was either the 4th or 5th CB off the board, I believe. Unfortunately for Detroit -- they still have needs at the position, even with Slay, who I have said I think will end up a very good player. Not sure if putting him as our #1 in a new defensive scheme is going to bode well for him though this year. I really hope I'm wrong though as he seeems like he has a really good head on his shoulders.

You put far too much weight on draft pedigree. Look at the top 25 or top 50 CBs in the NFL and it's a pretty even mix of first round picks and non-first round picks.

Not only does a CB not have to be a first rounder to succeed at a high level, but just as many non-first rounders seem to stand out as do the first rounders.

I think the long story short here is that you see the CBs as the biggest weakness on the team and you think that the only way to fix that was taking a CB at #10 this year. It didn't happen and you can't move on. I wanted Aaron Donald, but it didn't happen, so I moved on and haven't spent the last 2+ months bitching about not landing the guy I wanted.

I guess I'm more into assessing the guys we do have than whining about the guys we don't. I learned long ago that complaining about things that are completely out of my control is an entirely fruitless endeavor. It's like sitting in a rocking chair- it gives you something to do, but gets you nowhere.

 

[themuzzer]

You put far too much weight on draft pedigree. Look at the top 25 or top 50 CBs in the NFL and it's a pretty even mix of first round picks and non-first round picks.

Not only does a CB not have to be a first rounder to succeed at a high level, but just as many non-first rounders seem to stand out as do the first rounders.

I think the long story short here is that you see the CBs as the biggest weakness on the team and you think that the only way to fix that was taking a CB at #10 this year. It didn't happen and you can't move on. I wanted Aaron Donald, but it didn't happen, so I moved on and haven't spent the last 2+ months bitching about not landing the guy I wanted.

I guess I'm more into assessing the guys we do have than whining about the guys we don't. I learned long ago that complaining about things that are completely out of my control is an entirely fruitless endeavor. It's like sitting in a rocking chair- it gives you something to do, but gets you nowhere.

I'm sure once Donald has a sack and Ebron drops a pass we will hear about it.

 

[Rollingthndr]

Not only does a CB not have to be a first rounder to succeed at a high level, but just as many non-first rounders seem to stand out as do the first rounders.

True. Bengals continue to draft 1st round corners. Leon Hall, average. Dre Kirkpatrick, sucks.
2011 Prince A. Sucks. Jimmy Smith. Sucks. 2010 Kyle Wilson, Devin Mccourty, Kareem Jackson all suck.
Only good ones to come out lately are Haden and Peterson. Both top 7 picks.

 

[Old Lion]

Many on here would complain that we don't go out and get top FAs but then if we did they would complain that they couldn't be that good if their current team let them go. They are going to complain no matter what is done. Some of them still complain about the O-line even though they played very well last year.


We have 3 giant contracts on the team. Until one of them is gone we will always have holes. Yes we should have drafted a CB with the first pick, but we didn't. Bitching wont change anything. Write a letter to Ford, maybe that will help. Incessantly whining about it on a message board will do nothing.

 

[Old Lion]

True. Bengals continue to draft 1st round corners. Leon Hall, average. Dre Kirkpatrick, sucks.
2011 Prince A. Sucks. Jimmy Smith. Sucks. 2010 Kyle Wilson, Devin Mccourty, Kareem Jackson all suck.
Only good ones to come out lately are Haden and Peterson. Both top 7 picks.

Exactly. Even Peterson was ineffective on defense his first year. Sherman was drafted in the back end of the draft. Where you draft the player does not determine how good he will be. It is only a reflection of how good everyone thinks he will be which means next to nothing.

 

[themuzzer]

Many on here would complain that we don't go out and get top FAs but then if we did they would complain that they couldn't be that good if their current team let them go. They are going to complain no matter what is done. Some of them still complain about the O-line even though they played very well last year.


We have 3 giant contracts on the team. Until one of them is gone we will always have holes. Yes we should have drafted a CB with the first pick, but we didn't. Bitching wont change anything. Write a letter to Ford, maybe that will help. Incessantly whining about it on a message board will do nothing.

Like writing a letter to the Fords would do any good....Matt Millen do I need to say more?.....When fans wear brown paper bags to the game it states way more then a letter........

Quite frankly bitching and whining is why I am here.....This board gives me a place to bitch and whine about it.......I definitely didn't come here to applaud all the success they have had over the past 50 years.

 

[tpaulus_2]

True. Bengals continue to draft 1st round corners. Leon Hall, average. Dre Kirkpatrick, sucks.
2011 Prince A. Sucks. Jimmy Smith. Sucks. 2010 Kyle Wilson, Devin Mccourty, Kareem Jackson all suck.
Only good ones to come out lately are Haden and Peterson. Both top 7 picks.

Amukamarka (sp?) actually got a lot of positive press this offseason as an under-the-radar success. Jimmy Smith also reportedly had a very solid year. But overall your point stands- there's a lot of first round busts at the position. I'm not saying that means CBs should be avoided in the 1st round or anything like that- but just throwing high picks at the position because we're thin there right now isn't the answer, either.

While Ebron would not have been my pick at all (Donald or Fuller would have made me happy, though), he was indeed the pick. Me bitching won't go back and change anything, so I might as well embrace that the offense got a slick new weapon. Did they need one all that much? Not really, but we have him and not a CB instead, and that's our reality. None of us can change that one bit.

I don't think a TE in the 1st round will ever win the fan vote, but in Mayhew's defense Pettigrew is still on the roster starting games 6 years after he was drafted. Wasn't the best pick we could have made in hindsight, but it could have been a whole lot worse... we could have went with the fan favorite Micheal Oher, he turned out to be a bit less than projected, to say the least.

I guess I'm just sick of hearing all the complaining about the secondary. On paper we have the 5th highest ranked safety duo from last season. No issues there. At CB we have a veteran who played pretty damn well last season and a high 2nd round sophomore. In the slot we have a 3rd round pick entering into his 3rd season. We've devoted recent resources to the position, and it's widely accepted that it takes CBs time (generally 3 years) to hit their proverbial stride in the NFL, yet ours weren't an instant success so they don't get that same grace period.

We have young CBs in a new scheme that better utilizes their particular skill-sets ran by a former DB coach. The arrow is pointed up compared to the crap we had last season at the position, but you sure wouldn't know that listening to all the complaining a select few are showering on the CB corps. I remember the same debate about how horrible our o-line was going to be last season, because they were young and inexperienced. I stressed a "wait and see" attitude, and, sure enough, they exceeded all expectations. I think we should give this group a chance, you know, play some games, before bemoaning how much they suck...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Like writing a letter to the Fords would do any good....Matt Millen do I need to say more?.....When fans wear brown paper bags to the game it states way more then a letter........

Quite frankly bitching and whining is why I am here.....This board gives me a place to bitch and whine about it.......I definitely didn't come here to applaud all the success they have had over the past 50 years.

I don't think that's quite the revelation you believe it to be...

 

[themuzzer]

I don't think that's quite the revelation you believe it to be...

Is that your opinion or your reality?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

We have young CBs in a new scheme that better utilizes their particular skill-sets ran by a former DB coach.

So what you are saying is -- Our GM drafted or signed CB's whose skill set doesn't excel in the defensive scheme he knew the team was going to be running? Does that make sense?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Incessantly whining about it on a message board will do nothing.

It is a message board -- not the War Room for the Detroit Lions draft. If you can't talk about what you feel like the Lions should have or shouldn't have done on here -- Where do you do it at?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't think a TE in the 1st round will ever win the fan vote, but in Mayhew's defense Pettigrew is still on the roster starting games 6 years after he was drafted.

I agree -- there is a reason why only two teams in the NFL have spent a 1st round pick on the TE position and interestingly enough, both teams have spent, not one, but two 1st round picks in that time frame. (Detroit with Ebron and Pettigrew -- Cincinnati with Gresham and Eifert).

It is an important position, but you can find talent much easier at the TE position after the 1st round than most other positions.

 

[broncosmitty]

It is a message board -- not the War Room for the Detroit Lions draft. If you can't talk about what you feel like the Lions should have or shouldn't have done on here -- Where do you do it at?

Underwater. We have a pond in the back. But we have a pool.... AND a pond. Pond'd be good for you though.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I guess I'm just sick of hearing all the complaining about the secondary. On paper we have the 5th highest ranked safety duo from last season. No issues there. At CB we have a veteran who played pretty damn well last season and a high 2nd round sophomore. In THE SLOT we have a 3rd round pick entering into his 3rd season. We've devoted recent resources to the position, and it's widely accepted that it takes CBs time (generally 3 years) to hit their proverbial stride in the NFL, yet ours weren't an instant success so they don't get that same grace period.

We have young CBs in a new scheme that better utilizes their particular skill-sets ran by a former DB coach. The arrow is pointed up compared to the crap we had last season at the position, but you sure wouldn't know that listening to all the complaining a select few are showering on the CB corps. I remember the same debate about how horrible our o-line was going to be last season, because they were young and inexperienced. I stressed a "wait and see" attitude, and, sure enough, they exceeded all expectations. I think we should give this group a chance, you know, play some games, before bemoaning how much they suck...

What has our CB draft picks done that makes you believe they are ready to step into a starting role and be quality starters? Bentley has more PI's calls against him than Passes defensed in 2 years. I don't think he has a single interception.

Jonte Green has shown he can be depth on the bench. Chris Greenwood has done pretty much nothing, as he has been hurt the vast majority of the time.

The one glimmer of hope Detroit has in the secondary is Darius Slay, who also happens to be the only top 40 pick Detroit has spent on the CB position.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Underwater. We have a pond in the back. But we have a pool.... AND a pond. Pond'd be good for you though.

So are you saying I shouldn't disagree with anything the Lions do on a Lions message board.

 

[broncosmitty]

I agree -- there is a reason why only two teams in the NFL have spent a 1st round pick on the TE position and interestingly enough, both teams have spent, not one, but two 1st round picks in that time frame. (Detroit with Ebron and Pettigrew -- Cincinnati with Gresham and Eifert).

It is an important position, but you can find talent much easier at the TE position after the 1st round than most other positions.

There are lots of first round tight ends around the league. The Pats drafted two in three years in the first round. Worked out pretty well for those guys.

 

[broncosmitty]

So are you saying I shouldn't disagree with anything the Lions do on a Lions message board.

Well, you can, just cant do it where anyone can hear you. I know I never do. Why would someone question an organization like this one? :rollseyes:

 

[gandydancer]

There are lots of first round tight ends around the league. The Pats drafted two in three years in the first round. Worked out pretty well for those guys.

Wait for it...wait for it...they drafted two within the top 20 though and nobody has done that.