California just voted in favor of killing off the PAC-12

[rmilia1]

So you watch Dartmouth and Brown battle it out on saturdays.

No but we aren't talking about 75© of FBS. We are talking about 1 state . If half the states implement this the NCAA will have to cave . With only 1 state they don't .

 

[rmilia1]

They would care because many of the top 100 athletes would not go to their school, or just about any school they compete against.

It would turn into the JV of college football. Can you imagine NFL draft day with just a handful of players from all the NCAA being drafted in the first few rounds? It would lose a lot of respect, and most importantly viewership and endorsements. The big companies would FLOCK to sponsor a league filled with NFL prospects as opposed to the other league.

It would be a DISASTER for the NCAA if they lost most of the top 100 recruits every year to another competing league. You'd also likely lose all the best coaches.

It's one state man . You'd have a point if it was 50% of the schools in D1. It's not .

 

[Rolltide94]

Let's get real for a minute. No team in the Pac-12 made more than $30 million in profit last year. Hardly any made money beyond what went to fund other athletic programs. Short of being able to sell autographs, I don't see where this results in significant pay or additional money allocated to football players. Unless Title IX is getting shit canned too, there isn't enough money.

 

[belcherboy]

It's one state man . You'd have a point if it was 50% of the schools in D1. It's not .

I'm sorry, I'm not following you. You said you didn't care if they took the top 100 prospects, and that it wouldn't make a difference in college football. Do you still believe that?

Also, I believe it bleeds into an entire Pac12 conference or 1/5 of the Power 5. This could be a big deal. Maybe I'm wrong though.

 

[socaljim242]

The bill only says if they use a players name, or likeness to market the game there should be some way of compensating them and if a player feels he's marketable then they should be able to monetize it. We now allow Olympic athletes to make deals for themselves. Not all players have that kind of fame to make money but the ones who can should be able.

 

[Goldbug]

I can agree with that. My argument is one side has removed the voice of the second from getting a fair piece of the revenue. They have set down a static value, that is only so valuable because the cost is artificially inflated, and blocked them from using their fame for their own benefit.

All while not having to pay for normal required benefits that any employer has to pay.

The current system isn't perfect. I agree with you. But throwing it over for a Pay-For-Play system is infinitely worse. If my choice is between a system where players get "screwed" by only getting free educations and they can leave college with zero debt and advantages non-athletes can only dream about or a system that breeds Antonio Browns on the collegiate level by the dozens and my team is just a bunch of mercenaries playing for a year or two.....I'll take the current system. I'd rather a dozen or twenty or however many players get "screwed" than see an entire system destroyed that has benefited thousands and thousands of people who otherwise would have never been able to attend college and get a degree.

 

[The Q]

Athletes pay for their own medical insurance, pay for their own homes, living expenses.

And you do realize that most athletic departments lose money, right?

They lose money because of a set requirement of sports by the conference and title ix.

Nothing else

 

[7Samurai13]

They lose money because of a set requirement of sports by the conference and title ix.

Nothing else

And? Are you suggesting that universities should violate federal law to pay football players?

 

[belcherboy]

Let's get real for a minute. No team in the Pac-12 made more than $30 million in profit last year. Hardly any made money beyond what went to fund other athletic programs. Short of being able to sell autographs, I don't see where this results in significant pay or additional money allocated to football players. Unless Title IX is getting shit canned too, there isn't enough money.

I don't think that is the problem. If the Pac12 can play by it's own rules, they get a distinct advantage.

I alluded to it in a previous thread. Imagine Urban Meyer goes to USC. He has zero restrictions on scholarships. He can contact whomever he wants (even if they are currently playing on another team), and he can do whatever he wants with recruits (pay for him and his family to meet him in Cancun for a recruiting trip). No rules like the NCAA teams would have.

He could go down the list from the #1 prospect to the #50 prospect ranked nationally. Bring a representative from Nike, Beats, and a local car dealership. He could give them all kinds of free products, and tell them that they can sign endorsement deals with these companies if they sign to play at USC. He can offer 50 scholarships if he wants.

He could go and do this with 16 year old kids if he wants. Every Pac12 school could do this. Even if the schools only got a third of the top 100 athletes, It would be a HUGE boom for the Pac12 and hurt the NCAA. Corporations could buy exclusive endorsement deals with these schools, and pay the athletes if the want. Local car dealerships, apparel/shoe companies, hotel chains, drink companies, etc. There would be no restrictions for the Pac12 schools.

 

[belcherboy]

The bill only says if they use a players name, or likeness to market the game there should be some way of compensating them and if a player feels he's marketable then they should be able to monetize it. We now allow Olympic athletes to make deals for themselves. Not all players have that kind of fame to make money but the ones who can should be able.

If the NCAA drops them, then the NCAA rules go out the window. They would then just govern themselves (outside of federal law). Thus players would be free to look for ways of compensation (endorsements) and coaches could pretty much recruit any way they like without NCAA limits to worry about.

 

[The Q]

And? Are you suggesting that universities should violate federal law to pay football players?

No, but when it's claimed that athletic departments lose money, a big part of it has nothing to do with their own operations. The only way to legally pay players would be to have the govt drop title ix (too obvious, so it'll never happen), lobby for a football only exception (because there is no female equivalent...also too obvious so won't happen.).

I mean i guess in this case if it's based totally on merit of say...jersey sales...does the school get in trouble for the market being sexist? or is it even a title ix issue since it's consumer dollars or private company dollars paying for the likeness?

 

[Olyduck]

Let's get real for a minute. No team in the Pac-12 made more than $30 million in profit last year. Hardly any made money beyond what went to fund other athletic programs. Short of being able to sell autographs, I don't see where this results in significant pay or additional money allocated to football players. Unless Title IX is getting shit canned too, there isn't enough money.

They did but just barely.

 

[Olyduck]

I don't think that is the problem. If the Pac12 can play by it's own rules, they get a distinct advantage.

I alluded to it in a previous thread. Imagine Urban Meyer goes to USC. He has zero restrictions on scholarships. He can contact whomever he wants (even if they are currently playing on another team), and he can do whatever he wants with recruits (pay for him and his family to meet him in Cancun for a recruiting trip). No rules like the NCAA teams would have.

He could go down the list from the #1 prospect to the #50 prospect ranked nationally. Bring a representative from Nike, Beats, and a local car dealership. He could give them all kinds of free products, and tell them that they can sign endorsement deals with these companies if they sign to play at USC. He can offer 50 scholarships if he wants.

He could go and do this with 16 year old kids if he wants. Every Pac12 school could do this. Even if the schools only got a third of the top 100 athletes, It would be a HUGE boom for the Pac12 and hurt the NCAA. Corporations could buy exclusive endorsement deals with these schools, and pay the athletes if the want. Local car dealerships, apparel/shoe companies, hotel chains, drink companies, etc. There would be no restrictions for the Pac12 schools.

you keep making arguements about the Pac 12 but this is a California law. It is yet to be seen what the other 8 schools will do. I dont see them all just riding along with the California law and leaving the NCAA.

 

[Deathroll]

California Assembly passes bill that brings state to verge of rules showdown with NCAA

Either everybody else will have to follow because this would provide an unfair competitive advantage to California schools.

Or

The NCAA will have to boot California schools out. There are only four P5 schools in California. There’s only one most people care about.

Since I do not see the other 49 states bending to California’s wishes, buh bye California schools.

 

[belcherboy]

No but we aren't talking about 75© of FBS. We are talking about 1 state . If half the states implement this the NCAA will have to cave . With only 1 state they don't .

If just a handful of the biggest programs threatened to start their own conference, the NCAA would have to cave.

The bottom line is that Nick, Dabo, and others are not going to put up with competing against coaches that can literally bring cash to a recruits house, and have contracts ready for them to be paid spokesmen by Nike, Adidas, UA, or other popular companies. On top of that, they can offer as many scholarships as they want without any NCAA rules to follow.

What percentage of 16-18 year old kids would likely jump at signing with a school that hands them a dozen beats headphones to give to all his friends? Plus promises them a new car from a local dealership if he will simply endorse them and make appearances at the dealership every once in a while. On top of handing them a Nike catalog and telling them to order whatever they want.

 

[belcherboy]

you keep making arguements about the Pac 12 but this is a California law. It is yet to be seen what the other 8 schools will do. I dont see them all just riding along with the California law and leaving the NCAA.

So, where do the Pac12 teams go if the conference implodes? IMO, it would be in their best interests to stay with the Pac12 and leave the NCAA.

Can you imagine if Oregon could just give free Nike products to every recruit it talks to? Go to the 16-17 year old high school kids and dump tons of gear on them. It wouldn't cost Nike a dime to do it. They could even offer the top recruits endorsement deals on the spot! Oregon would have such a HUGE advantage in recruiting, if they didn't have to follow the NCAA rules, and they could keep the network in tact and that tv money.

 

[ellupo]

How many top end athletes need to go to these schools to make the competition good enough for recruiting purposes?

Once the top recruits start signing with Nike, UA, Adidas, you don't think it won't open the floodgates to other high end athletes?

Honestly, you think a kid like Zion would have still gone to Duke, if he had the choice of UCLA and a multi million dollar Nike contract?

Again, you guys need to view this from a 17-18 year old perspective. It wouldn't take but a few top athletes to make the jump, and once they started instagramming their sports cars, and bling, you would have more and more going that way.

Heck, I bet many would transfer out there and be immediately eligible if Nike and Adidas told them they would pay their way.

There was 1 kid like Zion. 1 in the country. Thats the point. There would not be dozens on each team getting these contracts.

 

[Deathroll]

You are all a bunch of idiots if you really believe you can kick out all of the California schools and still remain a P5 conference.

Look up and down the roster of the top teams in the conference. Where do most of those players come from?

Join another P5? Sure, but you think you will walk in and start poaching some od their talent grounds over their existing power teams?

The bottom teams now would get much much worse.

You are talking about the end of any real power in west coast football if cali recruiting grounds are gone.

If the California schools are booted out of the NCAA, where is the high school talent in California going to go? Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Utah, Colorado and outside the PAC area.

 

[belcherboy]

There was 1 kid like Zion. 1 in the country. Thats the point. There would not be dozens on each team getting these contracts.

Absolutely there would. Didn't you see what happened with Adidas and how Nike was accused of the same thing with all the high school kids they were trying to entice? Those companies have $100's of millions in endorsement money. Every guy drafted in the first round of the NBA draft got an endorsement deal. I assume the same for every football player in the first round.

Tons of corporations would love to get these kids signed to endorsement deals early. It wouldn't cost them much. Give them free products and $50k a year for 4-5 years. Nike, Adidas, UA could all have those deals with a 100 kids each (high school and college) year. Zion is getting $10 million a year now from Nike, they estimate he will bring in $100's of million in sales. These companies don't mind whiffing on a bunch of athletes if they can get one return like that every so often.

You get them early, and you'll likely keep them. At least that is what happened when KD was offered more by another shoe company. He stuck with Nike for less money because he already had a relationship with them.

 

[Olyduck]

So, where do the Pac12 teams go if the conference implodes? IMO, it would be in their best interests to stay with the Pac12 and leave the NCAA.

Can you imagine if Oregon could just give free Nike products to every recruit it talks to? Go to the 16-17 year old high school kids and dump tons of gear on them. It wouldn't cost Nike a dime to do it. They could even offer the top recruits endorsement deals on the spot! Oregon would have such a HUGE advantage in recruiting, if they didn't have to follow the NCAA rules, and they could keep the network in tact and that tv money.

for what? heres all this stuff take all you want money cars everything. except you are playing for nothing. conference title in an isolated bubble. no chance at a National championship.
in the last 10 years football softball both mens and womens basketball volleyball have all been close
the various track programs all have titles in both mens and womens. golf got 1 too.