Burrow Lobbying for Chase

[cincygrad]

It's an interesting discussion because there was an entire generation of QBs who played from the pocket that will either be in the HOF or at least garner consideration ( Brady, the Mannings, Rivers, Ryan, Brees, Warner, Roethlisberger for the second part of his career). It's possible that the game is evolving in a way that phases the pocket QB out unless they have exceptional arm strength (which I believe is your argument.) I'm not sure if that's the case. If Mac Jones does goes to the Niners it will be the ultimate test case as you have an exceptional processor with a average physical skills landing in the perfect situation (system, playcaller, supporting cast).

I don't necessarily advocate Mac Jones over Fields or vice versa but I see the argument for both of them as top picks

It's definitely hard to judge. Obviously Tom Brady isn't much of an "athlete" and he's the goat. I have a sneaking suspicion though that all of the negative press about Fields is a smokescreen by teams hoping he'll drop. His stats are great, his measurables are off the charts and his coach says the lack of effort stuff is complete bullcrap.

BTW - I do think Burrow's somewhat underrated athleticism is what makes him a special qb rather than just an average qb.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's definitely hard to judge. Obviously Tom Brady isn't much of an "athlete" and he's the goat. I have a sneaking suspicion though that all of the negative press about Fields is a smokescreen by teams hoping he'll drop. His stats are great, his measurables are off the charts and his coach says the lack of effort stuff is complete bullcrap.

BTW - I do think Burrow's somewhat underrated athleticism is what makes him a special qb rather than just an average qb.

I think Tom is a tough example to use because he wasn't a top 10 pick. He went in the 6th round because of those very concerns about his ability, both arm and athletically, and was pressed into playing because of an injury.

I think more to this point maybe you were trying to make - that because of Tom's success there aren't higher grades on QB's who athletically are underwhelming, but show a good mastery of their craft.

 

[Cincyfan78]

steve young ran the ball well, elway did as well.

it just doesn't last forever.

qbs get tackled and hit while running, so they either turn into pocket passers or they phase out.

Steve Young ran the ball 70 times in his last nearly full season (15 games) for 454 yards. He didn't phase that out. As a matter of fact, that was his 3rd highest rushing attempt per game in his career. Most years saw him in the mid 50's.

Same for Elway. Still rushing it 50 times a season through his final years.

But, I wouldn't call either of those guys running QB's. They were guys who had good arms, great command, but high level athleticism that allowed them to move in the pocket, extend plays, and pickup yards when they had to with their feet.

They would never be categorized as a Vick, Randel, Jackson kind of QB.

They just weren't sit in the pocket and sling it guys, either, like Manning, Marino, Luck, Brady.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think Tom is a tough example to use because he wasn't a top 10 pick. He went in the 6th round because of those very concerns about his ability, both arm and athletically, and was pressed into playing because of an injury.

I think more to this point maybe you were trying to make - that because of Tom's success there aren't higher grades on QB's who athletically are underwhelming, but show a good mastery of their craft.

to add on:

I think it just comes down to ceiling limit. Guys who show they have a vast potential to be franchise QB's typically aren't guys who are slightly above average with arm strength, and below average athleticism. Sure, there will be a few here and there, but typically, QB's fall into 2 categories: Staunch pocket passers with elite arms, or Athletic QB's who are able to utilize their mobility to either run the ball (Vick, Jackson, Randel) or create additional throwing time, lanes (think Burrow, Brees early in his career, even Mahomes as I'm not sure I consider him a runner in the Vick/Jackson mold).

Guys who lack arm strength and mobility are immediately viewed as lower ceiling guys and when drafting high...you're looking for that potential HR - franchise game-changer. The odds of finding it with a skill set that doesn't match are much smaller, maybe? Speculating here, but that's my assumption on why guys like Mac Jones tend to not be viewed as high. He's a slightly better Andy Dalton - and that comparison doesn't exactly scream Franchise QB.

 

[futballiscool]

It's definitely hard to judge. Obviously Tom Brady isn't much of an "athlete" and he's the goat. I have a sneaking suspicion though that all of the negative press about Fields is a smokescreen by teams hoping he'll drop. His stats are great, his measurables are off the charts and his coach says the lack of effort stuff is complete bullcrap.

BTW - I do think Burrow's somewhat underrated athleticism is what makes him a special qb rather than just an average qb.

With Burrow I suspect we're going to find out how much of his game is based on athleticism. If that knee injury robs him of some of his mobility I still think he can be a top flight QB based on his other skills. He's not a statue but if he's going to be a great QB in this league I think it's going to be due to his accuracy and decision making.

With Fields it could be false info from a team like the Broncos or Pats hoping he falls to their pick but Ryan Day has to have his QBs back on this for recruiting purposes.

I'd be surprised if either Jones or Fields falls out of the top 10

 

[DanBengalfan]

if he's going to be a statue, we better have the best OL in the league then.

 

[cwalke3408]

I like Burrow (I think he would go #1 or #2 in this draft) and I would like to see him stay healthy so I think the Bengals should go with Sewell at #5. I get that this draft is deep with OL talent but Sewell is just not another OLinemen and in the top 5 I believe teams should stick to going for premium positions. Burrow can dance in the pocket but give the kid a break

 

[Cincyfan78]

I like Burrow (I think he would go #1 or #2 in this draft) and I would like to see him stay healthy so I think the Bengals should go with Sewell at #5. I get that this draft is deep with OL talent but Sewell is just not another OLinemen and in the top 5 I believe teams should stick to going for premium positions. Burrow can dance in the pocket but give the kid a break

I don't disagree - I think Sewell is likely to be the consensus #1 OL in this draft. I think where the discussion come in are because there's depth at the OL position you can still land an expected starter in Round 2 or Round 3 all the while landing a top tier WR or TE where the depth of talent drops off vastly as you get into those round 2 and 3. More so at TE than WR, but still the drop-off is smaller at OL than any other position in this draft. This is a generational kind of draft in terms of OL depth.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I'll be happy with Sewell, Pitts, Chase, or even a trade down.

When your a Bengals fan, you learn to meter your expectations.

I would draft Sewell, protect that golden boy with with 5 all pro OL salary cap permitting. but this is Cincinnati, and crazy shit happens.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I will be happy with any also, but I am leaning towards Chase in the first, and Leatherwood in the 2nd.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I will be happy with any also, but I am leaning towards Chase in the first, and Leatherwood in the 2nd.

I wouldn't complain about that.

I'd go Pitts, Cosmi/Leatherwood, Hudson in rounds 1-3.

I'm going for another OT that will be behind Reiff for a year to learn and get more acclamated. I try to resign Reiff, but if not, at least there should be someone ready to go. I think Cosmi can play guard right now - and could slide out to RT if needed.

Though, I also wouldn't be made at:

Sewell, Cosmi/Leatherwood, Brevin Jordan TE

 

[cincygrad]

Here's what gets me.... If Sewell is the pick I can understand the thinking and I like the move to get the best lineman in the draft. It would even be better if they selected offensive linemen with their first 2 or 3 picks - Really show a commitment to fixing the line both in the short term (signing Rief) and in the longterm. BUT.... If this is your plan, why didn't you pony up more money in FA and get some speed at receiver? There were some pieces out there in FA that could have worked for this year (Fuller or Marvin Jones). You could have even made a bigger splash and signed Golloday - I realize he might have been overpaid but the option was there.

The issue with this year's offense is that even if we drastically improve our line, it's not clear that Burrow is in good position to improve his deep ball accuracy. I think I saw stats last year showing that our receivers were basically last in the league in separation. That's okay for Boyd - His game is the tight spaces/contested catch. Higgins is going to continue to be great at what he does..... But Boyd has been injured on and off and there is no obvious speed on the roster. Even though AJ Green wasn't much of a threat last year, I think defenses still had to respect him because of his reputation - Not everyone was ready to write him off. The offense will be limited without a playmaker out there.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Here's what gets me.... If Sewell is the pick I can understand the thinking and I like the move to get the best lineman in the draft. It would even be better if they selected offensive linemen with their first 2 or 3 picks - Really show a commitment to fixing the line both in the short term (signing Rief) and in the longterm. BUT.... If this is your plan, why didn't you pony up more money in FA and get some speed at receiver? There were some pieces out there in FA that could have worked for this year (Fuller or Marvin Jones). You could have even made a bigger splash and signed Golloday - I realize he might have been overpaid but the option was there.

The issue with this year's offense is that even if we drastically improve our line, it's not clear that Burrow is in good position to improve his deep ball accuracy. I think I saw stats last year showing that our receivers were basically last in the league in separation. That's okay for Boyd - His game is the tight spaces/contested catch. Higgins is going to continue to be great at what he does..... But Boyd has been injured on and off and there is no obvious speed on the roster. Even though AJ Green wasn't much of a threat last year, I think defenses still had to respect him because of his reputation - Not everyone was ready to write him off. The offense will be limited without a playmaker out there.

I 100% agree. I have been reading articles and the more I read, the more I think Cincinnati is going Chase. IT just has so much writing on the wall. However, if Atlanta doesn't feel they have enough talent at WR, they go Chase, then I see us going Pitts no issue. I just don't think Atlanta will go Chase. Very well could go TE, but I see them possibly going QB or Sewell to protect Ryan. If they trade back because they want better value in the draft slot for a rush end, then the trading up team I imagine is going with QB, which leaves us anyone in the draft that is not a QB. If that is the case, I really feel like it is going to be Chase. I just do based on articles and interviews with staff.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Here's what gets me.... If Sewell is the pick I can understand the thinking and I like the move to get the best lineman in the draft. It would even be better if they selected offensive linemen with their first 2 or 3 picks - Really show a commitment to fixing the line both in the short term (signing Rief) and in the longterm. BUT.... If this is your plan, why didn't you pony up more money in FA and get some speed at receiver? There were some pieces out there in FA that could have worked for this year (Fuller or Marvin Jones). You could have even made a bigger splash and signed Golloday - I realize he might have been overpaid but the option was there.

The issue with this year's offense is that even if we drastically improve our line, it's not clear that Burrow is in good position to improve his deep ball accuracy. I think I saw stats last year showing that our receivers were basically last in the league in separation. That's okay for Boyd - His game is the tight spaces/contested catch. Higgins is going to continue to be great at what he does..... But Boyd has been injured on and off and there is no obvious speed on the roster. Even though AJ Green wasn't much of a threat last year, I think defenses still had to respect him because of his reputation - Not everyone was ready to write him off. The offense will be limited without a playmaker out there.

I think you see a skill position go 1st (Chase/Pitts). I think you see OL go in the 2nd round. I think you see them make a run at re-signing Reiff next year, and if not, they will again look to another F/A and/or the draft to grab another young guy.

I would not have paid what Golloday got. That was insane.

I think maybe a solid way to go would be Chase, Cosmi/Leatherwood, and then the TE from Miami.

The thing is - finding a WR is much easier than finding starting OL right now - so, if that means 1 more draft before finding a true WR/TE kind of guy to add, then so be it. We already knew that this wasn't going to be a 1 year/draft fix. Going to take another year, at least. So, if they do go OL/OL in rounds 1-2, it's hard to complain.

Also, looking through the F/A WR's - and....Meh. For what some guys got paid - I understand kind of staying put. That list is underwhelming, especially when you look at the contracts.

They could also go OL in round 1 and try to hope Moore falls to them in round 2. Risky move, but he could be there and would be another solid addition at WR and they could still look at another interior OL in round 3 or look to take a guy like Hudson who may need a year still, but would be ready in year two if they don't re-sign Reiff.