Bruce is out period

[Sharkinva]

trubisky says hello, as does flacco, or a bunch of others

As long as Trubisky is healthy, is his team likely to make a desperation pick or trade for another QB??? DO a little research and look at just how many draft picks alone Washington has tossed at the QB position

 

[Stymietee]

Griffin isn't Jackson. They may have a similar style, but Jackson was much more prepared for the rigors of playing QB in the NFL than Griffin was.

and you are not me, what's your point beyond changing the subject?

Did Griffin come out of Baylor playing in a certain manner that marked his success? Didn't Jackson? Is it NOT true that one organization adjusted to their player and the other did not? These are the pertinent points that must be included in ANY discussion of Griffin vs Cousins related to the success of either.

In fact, I'll take this one step further and point out that when here, Gruden's system was far better suited for Kirk than Robert. Kirk played at Michigan and here in a system more similiar to what he was accustomed to than Robert who played at Baylor in a system more suited to Robert's skillset. This was far different than what he had to play in the NFL.The lone exception and chief reason why he is still in the league, has everything to do with Baltimore wholeheartedly adjusting to the skillset(s) of their QB's and Washington failing to do the same.

 

[Stymietee]

the redskins are absolutely worse off without KC, they completely mishandled RG3, Bruce Allen and the Shanahans are the reason they mishandled RG3, Bruce Allen incorrectly gambled with KC - who bet on himself and won, and none of that matters either as of yesterday.

This was the point I was making. No one, I believe, is arguing that KC would have taken us to the promise land. We can debate until the cows come home on how good he is or he will be. Only time will tell. But this franchise is worse off by not resigning him in 2016 and labeling him a huge bust in Minnesota is way too premature.

While I agree with almost everything that you've written here, the one sticking point I my total disagreement that this team would have been better off with KC. If you're looking at this team with blinders on then I cannot argue your point. However, a much wider view of this team will tell you that, Washington, had they kept Kirk Cousins, would have, to a high degree of certainty also assured a much longer tenure of Bruce Allen. Again, short view, you got me! Long view, no chance in hell we would have been better off with Kirk Cousins!

 

[Sportster 72]

and you are not me, what's your point beyond changing the subject?

Did Griffin come out of Baylor playing in a certain manner that marked his success? Didn't Jackson? Is it NOT true that one organization adjusted to their player and the other did not? These are the pertinent points that must be included in ANY discussion of Griffin vs Cousins related to the success of either.

In fact, I'll take this one step further and point out that when here, Gruden's system was far better suited for Kirk than Robert. Kirk played at Michigan and here in a system more similiar to what he was accustomed to than Robert who played at Baylor in a system more suited to Robert's skillset. This was far different than what he had to play in the NFL.The lone exception and chief reason why he is still in the league, has everything to do with Baltimore wholeheartedly adjusting to the skillset(s) of their QB's and Washington failing to do the same.

Correct, Griffin came out Baylor playing a certain system. Kyle Shanahan installed an offense (not used in the NFL at that time) that allowed Griffin to be successful in year one .... until he didn't know how to protect himself. He then got hurt, was a bonehead and got hurt again and with the owner decided he didn't want to play in that offense again.

Now the best coach in organization the past 10 years is in San Fran kicking ass.

You are correct, Gruden's offense was more conducive to Cousins. BUT, it was the offense that Griffin WANTED. He and Dan decided he wanted to be an NFL style QB.

So to say that the best offense for Griffin was not used his horseshit. When Griffin got what he wanted he was a failure. He was aided by the same owner that everyone is hoping got it right this time.

 

[j_y19]

and you are not me, what's your point beyond changing the subject?

Did Griffin come out of Baylor playing in a certain manner that marked his success? Didn't Jackson? Is it NOT true that one organization adjusted to their player and the other did not? These are the pertinent points that must be included in ANY discussion of Griffin vs Cousins related to the success of either.

In fact, I'll take this one step further and point out that when here, Gruden's system was far better suited for Kirk than Robert. Kirk played at Michigan and here in a system more similiar to what he was accustomed to than Robert who played at Baylor in a system more suited to Robert's skillset. This was far different than what he had to play in the NFL.The lone exception and chief reason why he is still in the league, has everything to do with Baltimore wholeheartedly adjusting to the skillset(s) of their QB's and Washington failing to do the same.

The point is that Jackson was both physically and mentally more prepared to play QB in the NFL. He was a bigger, stronger version of RG3 and had much more self awareness and game awareness at this level. I don't know how Kyle Shanahan could have tailored an offense to a player more than he did in that first year for Griffin so I'm not sure what your point is other than to continue to try and press that the failure of rg3 was everyone else's fault but RG3. While everyone involved had culpability, from the owner on down, the onus of RG3's failure here ultimately belongs on RG3 himself.

Clearly Gruden's offense was more suited to Cousins. You somehow forget that RG3 didn't want to run the system that would utilize his skill sets. Remember how he told Shanahan what he would and wouldn't do? You also seem to forget how reckless RG3 was in his recovery after that first year. "All in for week 1!", and all but demanded he play that opening game even though we now know he wasn't ready. That wasn't system, the theme, the Man, that was RG3 trying to prove that he could do what Petersen had done in recovery time. Ego. That's what that was.

 

[j_y19]

While I agree with almost everything that you've written here, the one sticking point I my total disagreement that this team would have been better off with KC. If you're looking at this team with blinders on then I cannot argue your point. However, a much wider view of this team will tell you that, Washington, had they kept Kirk Cousins, would have, to a high degree of certainty also assured a much longer tenure of Bruce Allen. Again, short view, you got me! Long view, no chance in hell we would have been better off with Kirk Cousins!

Better that what we ended up with and what we paid to get it? Absolutely keeping Cousins would have been better. Are you telling me that we are better off with the tandem of Smith, Keenum, McCoy and Haskins, including the cap hell we find ourselves in with Smith and without Fuller (think we could have used him these last 2 years) or a 3rd round pick that could have been a starting caliber OL or TE? Really?

 

[skinsdad62]

Shark is that you ? Let’s do a double grope of Danny ! I’ll buy the tickets

 

[Stymietee]

Correct, Griffin came out Baylor playing a certain system. Kyle Shanahan installed an offense (not used in the NFL at that time) that allowed Griffin to be successful in year one .... until he didn't know how to protect himself. He then got hurt, was a bonehead and got hurt again and with the owner decided he didn't want to play in that offense again.

Now the best coach in organization the past 10 years is in San Fran kicking ass.

You are correct, Gruden's offense was more conducive to Cousins. BUT, it was the offense that Griffin WANTED. He and Dan decided he wanted to be an NFL style QB.

So to say that the best offense for Griffin was not used his horseshit. When Griffin got what he wanted he was a failure. He was aided by the same owner that everyone is hoping got it right this time.

Let's discuss what you wrote, then perhaps you'll understand why I'm pointing at the dysfunction instead of the player. You wrote:

"You are correct, Gruden's offense was more conducive to Cousins. BUT, it was the offense that Griffin WANTED. He and Dan decided he wanted to be an NFL style QB."

.And let me ask you if you were running the show, under what circumstance does any one of your players get to dictate what YOUR organization will run for him? When you draft a player, you do so because you have a plan on how B.E.S.T to use him. Baltimore did do this Washington didn't! Those are the facts! Functional football people, and this excludes M. Shanahan during that period, would have done what was done in Baltimore for their player and their organization. If you insist upon pointing at the player, that's fine, just keep in mind when you do so, that nothing Griffin was able to insist upon doing would have happened without the dysfunctional atmosphere in place long before he was ever drafted.


You further wrote: "So to say that the best offense for Griffin was not used his horseshit"

Whatever you say! [sarcasm] There's no evidence that the best offense for Griffin was used here. Perhaps, you're referring to the renown "gimmick offense" of 2012, but of course we both know that it was far from the best offense for him because we now have an actual model of what that looks like. It is also worth exploring another angle that you might be going for here. "the offense that Griffin WANTED." well, that certainly wasn't the best either.
​

 

[RobToxin]

The best ability is availability.

Such a short sentence yet one of the most intelligent posts ever made on a sports message board.

 

[Stymietee]

Better that what we ended up with and what we paid to get it? Absolutely keeping Cousins would have been better. Are you telling me that we are better off with the tandem of Smith, Keenum, McCoy and Haskins, including the cap hell we find ourselves in with Smith and without Fuller (think we could have used him these last 2 years) or a 3rd round pick that could have been a starting caliber OL or TE? Really?

Think bigger! Had Kirk stayed here, so would Bruce Allen! In fact, the events following this season would not have happened. Going 8-8, 7-9 or an unlikely 9-7 with Cousins is not worth the cost that keeping Allen around. NO Thanks!!

BTW: I know that you might think that having Kirk would have been better, but let me remind you of something. Smith, Keenum, McCoy, possibly Haskins, the cap hell, no fuller, the third round pick that could have been used to get a starting caliber OL or TE, all resulted because of Bruce Allen. Had he kept Kirk, you have to admit that he was destined to screw that up as well!

 

[Sportster 72]

Let's discuss what you wrote, then perhaps you'll understand why I'm pointing at the dysfunction instead of the player. You wrote:

"You are correct, Gruden's offense was more conducive to Cousins. BUT, it was the offense that Griffin WANTED. He and Dan decided he wanted to be an NFL style QB."

.And let me ask you if you were running the show, under what circumstance does any one of your players get to dictate what YOUR organization will run for him? When you draft a player, you do so because you have a plan on how B.E.S.T to use him. Baltimore did do this Washington didn't! Those are the facts! Functional football people, and this excludes M. Shanahan during that period, would have done what was done in Baltimore for their player and their organization. If you insist upon pointing at the player, that's fine, just keep in mind when you do so, that nothing Griffin was able to insist upon doing would have happened without the dysfunctional atmosphere in place long before he was ever drafted.


You further wrote: "So to say that the best offense for Griffin was not used his horseshit"

Whatever you say! [sarcasm] There's no evidence that the best offense for Griffin was used here. Perhaps, you're referring to the renown "gimmick offense" of 2012, but of course we both know that it was far from the best offense for him because we now have an actual model of what that looks like. It is also worth exploring another angle that you might be going for here. "the offense that Griffin WANTED." well, that certainly wasn't the best either.
​

Lets examine your reply. No, I would not have changed the offense at Griffin's insistence. You'll remember the entire shit show as "all in …." etc. Griffin working on his brand. Snyder support of Griffin running the offense Griffin wanted tor run, a pro style offense. Clearly the coaching staff knew that Griffin could not run the style offense that he wanted. Remember the shit show between the Shanahans, Bruce and Dan? There is a damned good coach out in San Fran.

So you asked would I have run the offense Griffin insisted on. NO!! I would have told Griffin "you will run this offense." The so called (by you) gimmick offense is now widely used in the NFL. Lamar Jackson benefits from that offense. If there was a hesitation by Griffin to run the offense I would have started Cousins. He played in a pro style offense in college and was always the best QB between the two.

My thoughts, congrats to Baltimore, Coach Harbaugh, Steve Bisciotti for tailoring their offense to the skills to Lamar Jackson. Congrats also to Lamar for being willing to execute that offense and to use his skill set without insisting on something else.

My hope for Griffin was that he would run the Read Option and as time passed he would progress (through the years) he might acquire the skills to run a more pro style offense.

Who was wrong in Washington. Griffin, Snyder, Allen and I guess the Shanahans. Then too do you tell your boss NO! The Shanahans did not and Gruden did. He went to Cousins.

I wonder how Griffin feels now that he has watched Jackson executes the offense at a high level essentially the same offense that was installed for him. As a Redskin fan …. and knowing the team has a 1st round QB that many are counting on …. do you feel comfort for him knowing Dan's history?

As far as this comment "There's no evidence that the best offense for Griffin was used here." The evidence is 2012. Griffin's best ever season.

Happy New Year!

 

[skinsdad62]

first off this debate is years old . lets break it down simply

jackson is a greater football player then RG3

if RG3 was some exceptional talent he would have shown it in cleveland and in baltimore

the issue in DC was RG3 didnt hit the open man when he saw it . he didnt trust HIS reads . this is one numerous film clips i have posted and we all have seen Rg3 is a bust , period

his career doesnt compare to KC's , not even close

KC is a better qb then case keenum and hence i believe that season was an outlier rather then a truthful evaluation of what the vikings were

9-10 wins is more of a real indicator of what they are

KC is a good qb . he cant carry a team . i have never said he was some superstar qb and a HOFer . he needs a team around him and he will struggle when asked to take a team on his back and win . he needs a running game and a strong defense and good targets . if any of those phases fail he wont make that up too often

judging his record built up on lousey washington teams that were poorly run and coached is just plain lazy

fact is he took this team to the playoffs by winning 4 must win games in a row . to dismiss that is to expose your bias .

fact is we could have signed KC long term to a deal commensurate with his talent level but it was botched by brucifer

he has a good vikings team in the playoffs and he will face a team that out classes his team . cook and the defense will have to ball out to win . thielen and rudolph and diggs will have to ball out to win . the o/line will have to show up to win

it isnt KC's fault that the saints are a better football team and are at home . the packers are better , the 49ers are better the seahawks are better

KC is a good , not great qb . he will make the occasional big play but he wont carry a team . we all know this but RG3 cant even start in this league

 

[Sportster 72]

Cousins 4th ranked QB in the NFL this year. Griffin = backup.

 

[j_y19]

Cousins 4th ranked QB in the NFL this year. Griffin = backup.

You are just being a troublemaker.

 

[Sportster 72]

You are just being a troublemaker.

Who me?? Just stating the facts.

The top 5 rated QBs in order:
Tannehill
Brees
Jackson
Cousins
Wilson

 

[kbso83432]

So now that Bruce is gone, does Dan fire up ol Redskins 1 and max out the credit cards?

A. Cooper WR
C. Harris. CB
K. Fuller CB
A. Hooper TE
D. McCourty FS
T. Boston FS

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

So now that Bruce is gone, does Dan fire up ol Redskins 1 and max out the credit cards?

A. Cooper WR
C. Harris. CB
K. Fuller CB
A. Hooper TE
D. McCourty FS
T. Boston FS

Yep

 

[Sportster 72]

Anyone remember a guy named Fletcher? I am looking for someone like him …..

 

[gkekoa]

So now that Bruce is gone, does Dan fire up ol Redskins 1 and max out the credit cards?

A. Cooper WR
C. Harris. CB
K. Fuller CB
A. Hooper TE
D. McCourty FS
T. Boston FS

Amari Cooper- hell no. It speaks volumes when you are yanked at the end of the game with the game on the line.

Chris Harris- hell no. We don’t need 31 year old corners.

Fuller- I would look at him as a slot.

Hooper- very interesting option. Definitely worth looking at.

McCourty is too old.

Boston is a pass.

 

[Stymietee]

Lets examine your reply. No, I would not have changed the offense at Griffin's insistence. You'll remember the entire shit show as "all in …." etc. Griffin working on his brand. Snyder support of Griffin running the offense Griffin wanted tor run, a pro style offense. Clearly the coaching staff knew that Griffin could not run the style offense that he wanted. Remember the shit show between the Shanahans, Bruce and Dan? There is a damned good coach out in San Fran.

So you asked would I have run the offense Griffin insisted on. NO!! I would have told Griffin "you will run this offense." The so called (by you) gimmick offense is now widely used in the NFL. Lamar Jackson benefits from that offense. If there was a hesitation by Griffin to run the offense I would have started Cousins. He played in a pro style offense in college and was always the best QB between the two.

My thoughts, congrats to Baltimore, Coach Harbaugh, Steve Bisciotti for tailoring their offense to the skills to Lamar Jackson. Congrats also to Lamar for being willing to execute that offense and to use his skill set without insisting on something else.

My hope for Griffin was that he would run the Read Option and as time passed he would progress (through the years) he might acquire the skills to run a more pro style offense.

Who was wrong in Washington. Griffin, Snyder, Allen and I guess the Shanahans. Then too do you tell your boss NO! The Shanahans did not and Gruden did. He went to Cousins.

I wonder how Griffin feels now that he has watched Jackson executes the offense at a high level essentially the same offense that was installed for him. As a Redskin fan …. and knowing the team has a 1st round QB that many are counting on …. do you feel comfort for him knowing Dan's history?

As far as this comment "There's no evidence that the best offense for Griffin was used here." The evidence is 2012. Griffin's best ever season.

Happy New Year!

Ok, now to address what you've written in this response.

1. I've never referred to that 2012 offense as a "gimmick." Many (almost unanimous) here did and insisted that he would not survive playing that way. We have a search engine that verifies this. My reference to it now, is intended to point out what was happening in real time then.

2. Let's try to recall, the one poster here who insisted that Griffin was being mishandled in real time. I do agree with you that if I was in charge, we as an organization would have adjusted to his strengths and he would have played in it or welcomed his ass on a splinter maker. BTW: let's also remember the one poster who insists on sitting 1st year QB's, which in the case of Griffin would have tempered that ego to some degree and let him know who was in charge.

3. Do I tell my boss "NO!" Absolutely!! This is a manhood issue and one that says something about how we value ourselves. [side bar| Not to get into politics, but most people can make money anywhere, what typically holds us to the job are the benefits, especially healthcare. |end side bar] I reference this because most people won't say no to the boss because of the fear attached to losing those benefits, and the money in the short term. Fear must not be a driving force in NOT doing the right thing!

4. Agreed, they were all wrong, because they were all cowards! Kyle is the only one that gets any push back in this respect.

5. You wrote: "I wonder how Griffin feels now that he has watched Jackson executes the offense at a high level essentially the same offense that was installed for him." See the word that is bolded and underlined? It really doesn't say "same" or "exact" does it? So let me ask you, if you were alarmed by your QB's inability to protect himself, the guy that you invested in and were relying upon for the long term, would you just let it slide or attempt to do something to correct it?

6. Your question "do you feel comfort for him knowing Dan's history?" is a curious one in that it assumes that I give a shit about a player who is long past his time on our team. For the record, I don't!! To be honest, Dan's history is giving me concern for the new hire! If he's half the man that's being reported, at some point he's going to do exactly what we've discussed previously...Saying NO!" to his boss!