Bruce is out period

[Stymietee]

The point is that Jackson was both physically and mentally more prepared to play QB in the NFL. He was a bigger, stronger version of RG3 and had much more self awareness and game awareness at this level. I don't know how Kyle Shanahan could have tailored an offense to a player more than he did in that first year for Griffin so I'm not sure what your point is other than to continue to try and press that the failure of rg3 was everyone else's fault but RG3. While everyone involved had culpability, from the owner on down, the onus of RG3's failure here ultimately belongs on RG3 himself.

Clearly Gruden's offense was more suited to Cousins. You somehow forget that RG3 didn't want to run the system that would utilize his skill sets. Remember how he told Shanahan what he would and wouldn't do? You also seem to forget how reckless RG3 was in his recovery after that first year. "All in for week 1!", and all but demanded he play that opening game even though we now know he wasn't ready. That wasn't system, the theme, the Man, that was RG3 trying to prove that he could do what Petersen had done in recovery time. Ego. That's what that was.

This is an interesting take!

We agree that Jackson is a bigger, stronger version of Griffin, but he is nonetheless a version, correct? It is important that we take note of this and why I reference Baltimore in this discussion. Who was the "version" of Griffin behind him when he was here? Tells you something, doesn't it? Kyle did a masterful job that is indisputable, but his work was undermined by his bosses and that includes his dad! The selection of Kirk Cousins, served this organization well, but it totally endangered, or better put the spotlight on this organizations failure to do what Baltimore did in first adjusting to a different style of play and preparing in the case of injury! I'm sure that you can agree to this, right? BTW: How long did that 2012 offensive scheme last? Why? (hint: there was no true commitment to it)

Let me continue to insist upon the recognition that there was one poster here who, in real time, repeatedly stated that the Griffin situation was being mishandled.

That said, You are absolutely correct when you point out " RG3 didn't want to run the system that would utilize his skill sets. Remember how he told Shanahan what he would and wouldn't do? You also seem to forget how reckless RG3 was in his recovery after that first year. "All in for week 1!", and all but demanded he play that opening game even though we now know he wasn't ready. Ego. That's what that was." So, I ask you as I did with @Sportster, If you were running the organization, would he be allowed to do any of this shit? That is NOT on Griffin, that is an organizational failure! I didn't forget, I put the blame where it properly belonged!

 

[j_y19]

This is an interesting take!

We agree that Jackson is a bigger, stronger version of Griffin, but he is nonetheless a version, correct? It is important that we take note of this and why I reference Baltimore in this discussion. Who was the "version" of Griffin behind him when he was here? Tells you something, doesn't it? Kyle did a masterful job that is indisputable, but his work was undermined by his bosses and that includes his dad! The selection of Kirk Cousins, served this organization well, but it totally endangered, or better put the spotlight on this organizations failure to do what Baltimore did in first adjusting to a different style of play and preparing in the case of injury! I'm sure that you can agree to this, right? BTW: How long did that 2012 offensive scheme last? Why? (hint: there was no true commitment to it)

Let me continue to insist upon the recognition that there was one poster here who, in real time, repeatedly stated that the Griffin situation was being mishandled.

That said, You are absolutely correct when you point out " RG3 didn't want to run the system that would utilize his skill sets. Remember how he told Shanahan what he would and wouldn't do? You also seem to forget how reckless RG3 was in his recovery after that first year. "All in for week 1!", and all but demanded he play that opening game even though we now know he wasn't ready. Ego. That's what that was." So, I ask you as I did with @Sportster, If you were running the organization, would he be allowed to do any of this shit? That is NOT on Griffin, that is an organizational failure! I didn't forget, I put the blame where it properly belonged!

There is no doubt that it was Shanahan's plan all along to eventually try and turn RG3 into a type of prototypical NFL QB. He even admits to this. But he saw it as a 3-5 year process. It was RG3 who demanded it happen in Year 2. There is also no doubt that this franchise's complete and utter failure over the last 2 decades is all due to organizational failure. But this doesn't absolve the player from responsibility. And I, for one, believe that as a pro, the player has the ultimate responsibility for preparing themselves to be the best they can be. RG3 physically did this, but mentally, he did not think he needed to (maybe he thought he was there?). He played as if he was so much more physically gifted than his opponents that it would all take care of itself. In college, he got away with that. In the pros, they are all fast and strong. No, the organizational failure wasn't in the preparation of RG3, but in the drafting of RG3. If you have a HC that believes a successful NFL QB must fit a certain prototype, then why draft one that doesn't?

Sorry, I don't buy into the notion that drafting Cousins as his backup somehow undermined RG3. He was given every opportunity to play, both in a system designed to utilize his strengths as he entered into the league as well as a system that he wanted to play in. IF having a 4th round pick as a backup somehow unnerved him, then we was doomed to fail in this league anyway.

 

[skinsdad62]

So now that Bruce is gone, does Dan fire up ol Redskins 1 and max out the credit cards?

A. Cooper WR
C. Harris. CB
K. Fuller CB
A. Hooper TE
D. McCourty FS
T. Boston FS

some of them for sure but understand less then half of what we sign will work out

 

[Sportster 72]

Ok, now to address what you've written in this response.

1. I've never referred to that 2012 offense as a "gimmick." Many (almost unanimous) here did and insisted that he would not survive playing that way. We have a search engine that verifies this. My reference to it now, is intended to point out what was happening in real time then.

2. Let's try to recall, the one poster here who insisted that Griffin was being mishandled in real time. I do agree with you that if I was in charge, we as an organization would have adjusted to his strengths and he would have played in it or welcomed his ass on a splinter maker. BTW: let's also remember the one poster who insists on sitting 1st year QB's, which in the case of Griffin would have tempered that ego to some degree and let him know who was in charge.

3. Do I tell my boss "NO!" Absolutely!! This is a manhood issue and one that says something about how we value ourselves. [side bar| Not to get into politics, but most people can make money anywhere, what typically holds us to the job are the benefits, especially healthcare. |end side bar] I reference this because most people won't say no to the boss because of the fear attached to losing those benefits, and the money in the short term. Fear must not be a driving force in NOT doing the right thing!

4. Agreed, they were all wrong, because they were all cowards! Kyle is the only one that gets any push back in this respect.

5. You wrote: "I wonder how Griffin feels now that he has watched Jackson executes the offense at a high level essentially the same offense that was installed for him." See the word that is bolded and underlined? It really doesn't say "same" or "exact" does it? So let me ask you, if you were alarmed by your QB's inability to protect himself, the guy that you invested in and were relying upon for the long term, would you just let it slide or attempt to do something to correct it?

6. Your question "do you feel comfort for him knowing Dan's history?" is a curious one in that it assumes that I give a shit about a player who is long past his time on our team. For the record, I don't!! To be honest, Dan's history is giving me concern for the new hire! If he's half the man that's being reported, at some point he's going to do exactly what we've discussed previously...Saying NO!" to his boss!

1. Your initial post that I responded to used the word "gimmick" so I associated you as calling it a gimmick.

2. Well I can't claim to be the only guy because I know shark was as big and advocate as me for not drafting Griffin. Sorry, I don't feel he was mishandled by the Shanahan's. They did the best they could to help him but in the end he, his dad, the owner and the owners henchmen turned on the Shanahan's. They brought Gruden in to coach him in a style of offense he wanted to be coached in. Gruden failed to make him a pro style QB. I think we basically agree here. Again Griffin was his own enemy but the Management let him down ... not including the Shanahans.

3. Not surprised you and I are very much alike in what some would say "not knowing when to shutup." I refused to remove a bad part on a fighter jets weapon system because I considered it dangerous. I refused all of the Chiefs and officers they could send my way. Got away with that one because I was in the right. I said no to a boss in NY because he was wrong, he got let go and so did I. I was right but that would cost me a lot of money. Likely why I have been divorced twice too, I am not a yes man.

5. was conjecture on my part.

Mostly I think we see things close to the same way.

 

[skinsdad62]

Let this sink in people

 

[Stymietee]

Let this sink in people

There were those among us who kept pressing the point that Kirk should have been traded. We knew that he had no (zero) plans to stay here no matter what type of favorable contract they were willing to offer. Sure, Kirk said all of the things that the public would buy, that was the easy part considering the opposition.(Bruce and Dan)

Who didn't know that he had market value? (keeping him wasn't an option)

Acceptance/denial seemed to be the focal point of those here insisting that they should offer him a market value contract. When it didn't happen in the first instance (2014-2015), trading him was the only other option, especially once Bruce ( the lying low life piece of shit) publicly stated that Kirk wasn't going anywhere. That lack of acceptance and/or denial dragged on for year after year, through hundreds, probably thousands of posts until, well, we all know the rest.

 

[Sportster 72]

Not quite sure the point of your post Sty. Cousin's should have been retained. If the Redskins knew and I believe that Bruce knew he wasn't going to resign Cousin's then he should have been traded instead of trading for another QB which effectively ended the Cousin's era while also giving up Kendall Fuller and giving up a third round pick.

I think we all know that Andy Reid used Allen as his own perfect idiot. He just had three ex-Redskins on his team for less than $6 million combined.

Because people wanted to see him retained does not have anything to do with acceptance/denial. At least in my case he was the best QB here since Trent Green (that was my original assertion) so wanting them to find a way to keep Cousin's IMO should have been goal one. But as mentioned if they had no intention to sign him then they should have traded him to San Fran for that No. 2 pick or whatever else San Fran was willing to offer.

 

[skinsdad62]

Not quite sure the point of your post Sty. Cousin's should have been retained. If the Redskins knew and I believe that Bruce knew he wasn't going to resign Cousin's then he should have been traded instead of trading for another QB which effectively ended the Cousin's era while also giving up Kendall Fuller and giving up a third round pick.

I think we all know that Andy Reid used Allen as his own perfect idiot. He just had three ex-Redskins on his team for less than $6 million combined.

Because people wanted to see him retained does not have anything to do with acceptance/denial. At least in my case he was the best QB here since Trent Green (that was my original assertion) so wanting them to find a way to keep Cousin's IMO should have been goal one. But as mentioned if they had no intention to sign him then they should have traded him to San Fran for that No. 2 pick or whatever else San Fran was willing to offer.

exactly no denial here . if we had the number 2 overall pick we could have done wonders with it

 

[Sportster 72]

exactly no denial here . if we had the number 2 overall pick we could have done wonders with it

Yeah, it was like Bruce always wanted to prove he was football smart. Cousins is the perfect example. Instead of signing him for $19 or $20 million after his first full year as a starter he kept raising Cousins salary ceiling by tagging him. After Bruce jacked his salary up so high he wasn't going to pay THEN he should have made the trade. Instead he trades for Smith and gives up assets and lets Cousins walk.

With Trent whether he was right or wrong about seeking a 2nd or 3rd opinion Bruce misplayed that entire thing and pays for nothing. Doesn't trade Trent when that was probably the right thing to do based on how Trent felt and where the hell are we now?

Oh well, Bruce is gone and hopefully things will be better.

 

[skinz2winz]

Yeah, it was like Bruce always wanted to prove he was football smart. Cousins is the perfect example. Instead of signing him for $19 or $20 million after his first full year as a starter he kept raising Cousins salary ceiling by tagging him. After Bruce jacked his salary up so high he wasn't going to pay THEN he should have made the trade. Instead he trades for Smith and gives up assets and lets Cousins walk.

With Trent whether he was right or wrong about seeking a 2nd or 3rd opinion Bruce misplayed that entire thing and pays for nothing. Doesn't trade Trent when that was probably the right thing to do based on how Trent felt and where the hell are we now?

Oh well, Bruce is gone and hopefully things will be better.

Bruce who?

 

[Stymietee]

exactly no denial here . if we had the number 2 overall pick we could have done wonders with it

Not quite sure the point of your post Sty. Cousin's should have been retained. If the Redskins knew and I believe that Bruce knew he wasn't going to resign Cousin's then he should have been traded instead of trading for another QB which effectively ended the Cousin's era while also giving up Kendall Fuller and giving up a third round pick.

I think we all know that Andy Reid used Allen as his own perfect idiot. He just had three ex-Redskins on his team for less than $6 million combined.

Because people wanted to see him retained does not have anything to do with acceptance/denial. At least in my case he was the best QB here since Trent Green (that was my original assertion) so wanting them to find a way to keep Cousin's IMO should have been goal one. But as mentioned if they had no intention to sign him then they should have traded him to San Fran for that No. 2 pick or whatever else San Fran was willing to offer.

Perhaps it's difficult to see, so I'll put it down where the goats can get it. (it's an old expression)

The many... "They should re-sign Cousins."

The few of us.. "They must (perhaps some said "should") trade Cousins.

The former was an exercise in denial, because, as has been proven, and we (the few) knew at the time, keeping him simply wasn't an option. Yep, despite the reports, public utterances by both sides.

Now we find out that there was a first round selection in the offering (#2 overall) and the revision is there wasn't denial, Yeah right!! Stick with it fellas, perhaps there's still a chance that Kirk gets signed to a contract here in D.C.

 

[Sportster 72]

Perhaps it's difficult to see, so I'll put it down where the goats can get it. (it's an old expression)

The many... "They should re-sign Cousins."

The few of us.. "They must (perhaps some said "should") trade Cousins.

The former was an exercise in denial, because, as has been proven, and we (the few) knew at the time, keeping him simply wasn't an option. Yep, despite the reports, public utterances by both sides.

Now we find out that there was a first round selection in the offering (#2 overall) and the revision is there wasn't denial, Yeah right!! Stick with it fellas, perhaps there's still a chance that Kirk gets signed to a contract here in D.C.

,

That is what I thought it was. A pat yourself on the back post congrats …. I guess.

 

[Stymietee]

,

That is what I thought it was. A pat yourself on the back post congrats …. I guess.

Altough it does consequently do that, the main purpose was to remind, and inform the many that what they were doing in real time (back then) was in effect, support of Bruce Allen, who lies in order to breathe...Congrats! !

 

[Sportster 72]

Altough it does consequently do that, the main purpose was to remind, and inform the many that what they were doing in real time (back then) was in effect, support of Bruce Allen, who lies in order to breathe...Congrats! !

I have given myself a pat on the back a time or two.

Not sure about your supporting Bruce Allen though. I supported the hiring of Bruce thinking maybe it would be some sort of return to better days. I stopped supporting him when he and Dan took it upon themselves to trade for Donovan McNabb. It dwindled a lot more with the trade up to get Griffin.

Clearly I was concerned in Cousins first season when I mentioned more than once to not have a second Trent Green situation. Hell I wasn't really supporting tagging Cousins, that was only making the situation worse.

As I mentioned a post or two ago once Bruce made up his mind he wasn't going to budge even if it was to the detriment to the team. But we all know that, that is why people wanted him gone so badly. I am hoping the RR era is much better … but Dan is still here.

 

[Stymietee]

I have given myself a pat on the back a time or two.

Not sure about your supporting Bruce Allen though. I supported the hiring of Bruce thinking maybe it would be some sort of return to better days. I stopped supporting him when he and Dan took it upon themselves to trade for Donovan McNabb. It dwindled a lot more with the trade up to get Griffin.

Clearly I was concerned in Cousins first season when I mentioned more than once to not have a second Trent Green situation. Hell I wasn't really supporting tagging Cousins, that was only making the situation worse.

As I mentioned a post or two ago once Bruce made up his mind he wasn't going to budge even if it was to the detriment to the team. But we all know that, that is why people wanted him gone so badly. I am hoping the RR era is much better … but Dan is still here.

Do you remember when you accused me of having some sort of personal vendetta against Bruce Allen? Good times huh?

It took some years but folks did come around to the point where the mention of his name conjures up "personal vendettas" everywhere!

That's the thing about time, it allows one to cease debating endlessly and wait for a time and place where, Ooops another inadvertent pat on the back, truly becomes a thing!

 

[Sportster 72]

Do you remember when you accused me of having some sort of personal vendetta against Bruce Allen? Good times huh?

It took some years but folks did come around to the point where the mention of his name conjures up "personal vendettas" everywhere!

That's the thing about time, it allows one to cease debating endlessly and wait for a time and place where, Ooops another inadvertent pat on the back, truly becomes a thing!

No I don't, when was that? If I did I apologize and take it back. Maybe I was intentionally being a dick. Not that I would ever do that. Hell I might have told you that was Robert Griffin was good some time during his first year.

 

[chillerdab]

Interesting.