Asterisk!?

[calsnowskier]

IMO, you (along with a great many people in this thread) are merely reflecting a "good sportsmanship" type attitude.

That's laudable, and all that. But listen:

We're not shaking hands with the other team after the game here. This thread is just about talking straight... being real.

A great number of y'all are also saying lines like, "Yeah, GS would have won the series if they were healthy but..."

I read that as a concession that my overall point is true: Injuries to two HOF, in-their-prime stars had a huge effect on this series and ended up being the deciding factor. Asterisk!

BS

The Raptors won. Period. No excuses.

A championship does not equate to best team. It never has. It never will. It simply is a consistent obstacle course that all teams must complete, and the team that finished the course first takes the title. And that is a beautiful thing.

If a team is built around a bunch of kids who don’t know how to handle the big lights, they will likely fall.

If a team is built around a bunch of old men who will hit the wall too early, they will likely fall.

If a team is built around players who simply don’t have the talent, they will likely fall.

If a team randomly has injuries that are unexplainable, they will likely fall.

If a team played an entire seasons worth of games more than every other team in a 5-year period, they will likely fall.

Winning a championship is HARD. A lot of shit can (and will) happen. That is why no team in major sports has made it to 5 consecutive championships since the early 80s, and not in the NBA since the 60s.

But if you want to paint that as “merely reflecting a ‘good sportsmanship’ type attitude.”, well, I got nothing for you. You looking to be offended where no offense is there to be found.

 

[calsnowskier]

You play against the team that is on the floor.
Raptors won.
End of story.

Simple.

As.

That.


Your 2018/2019 NBA Champions: Toronto Raptors

 

[Gman]

BS

The Raptors won. Period. No excuses.

A championship does not equate to best team. It never has. It never will. It simply is a consistent obstacle course that all teams must complete, and the team that finished the course first takes the title. And that is a beautiful thing.

If a team is built around a bunch of kids who don’t know how to handle the big lights, they will likely fall.

If a team is built around a bunch of old men who will hit the wall too early, they will likely fall.

If a team is built around players who simply don’t have the talent, they will likely fall.

If a team randomly has injuries that are unexplainable, they will likely fall.

If a team played an entire seasons worth of games more than every other team in a 5-year period, they will likely fall.

Winning a championship is HARD. A lot of shit can (and will) happen. That is why no team in major sports has made it to 5 consecutive championships since the early 80s, and not in the NBA since the 60s.

But if you want to paint that as “merely reflecting a ‘good sportsmanship’ type attitude.”, well, I got nothing for you. You looking to be offended where no offense is there to be found.

I honestly have no idea how you perceived a tone of "offended" out of my post.

I went back and reread my post just to be sure... I have no idea what you're talking about or neg-rating me about.

I'll stand by what I said and agree to disagree after that, I suppose.

 

[calsnowskier]

I honestly have no idea how you perceived a tone of "offended" out of my post.

I went back and reread my post just to be sure... I have no idea what you're talking about or neg-rating me about.

I'll stand by what I said and agree to disagree after that, I suppose.

Read your very first line...

“IMO, you (along with a great many people in this thread) are merely reflecting a "good sportsmanship" type attitude.”

I read that as you saying people who are claiming that the Raptors won and injury’s don’t matter are disingenuous, and just pretending to look like they have good sportsmanship. That was what I was replying to.

If I misread your tone, I apologize.

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

Having watched precisely 0.9 seconds of game 6, and after long deliberation, I gotta go with C.

 

[The Q]

Simple question.

Should the Toronto Raptors' 2019 NBA title forever be following by an "*" in the minds of B-ball fans because of the injury situation of the Golden State Warriors?

Or not?

What says the Hoop!

Note - No extra options in the polling aside from the obligatory potato salad option. Take a stand, pussies.

Unless the titles from 2009 to 2012 are all asterisked for KG’s essentially career ending injury (as a franchise player) then no.

 

[Bart]

A lot of Championships deserve an asterisk but this is one of the biggest asterisks

 

[Sportsguy9695]

Injuries are part of the game so no you can’t put an asterisk

 

[GNG]

Simple question.

Should the Toronto Raptors' 2019 NBA title forever be following by an "*" in the minds of B-ball fans because of the injury situation of the Golden State Warriors?

Or not?

What says the Hoop!

Note - No extra options in the polling aside from the obligatory potato salad option. Take a stand, pussies.

Toronto was the better team.

 

[SJ76]

Tater salad > Raptors > Warriors

 

[trojanfan12]

IMO, you (along with a great many people in this thread) are merely reflecting a "good sportsmanship" type attitude.

That's laudable, and all that. But listen:

We're not shaking hands with the other team after the game here. This thread is just about talking straight... being real.

A great number of y'all are also saying lines like, "Yeah, GS would have won the series if they were healthy but..."

I read that as a concession that my overall point is true: Injuries to two HOF, in-their-prime stars had a huge effect on this series and ended up being the deciding factor. Asterisk!

Making a concession to the Warriors injuries isn't agreeing that the Raptors title deserves an asterisk.

It's simply acknowledging that the outcome may have been different had the Warriors been healthy.

End of the day, it takes a certain amount of luck to win a title and luck with injuries (whether your own team or the opponent) is part of that.

Over the course of their run, the Warriors have had luck with injuries to their opponents that helped them win 3 rings and they have had some bad luck with injuries to their own players that cost them a couple of other potential rings.

There are no asterisks for the Warriors 3 titles and no asterisks for the teams that beat them in the 2 that they lost.

 

[SJ76]

It goes like this...


Golden St added KD then Boogie. Superteam galore. And everyone seemed to get hurt. Best team ever on paper but for some reason it didn’t happen.

 

[trojanfan12]

....but yes this finals will be remembered for the injuries not for how good Toronto played.

I disagree. The injuries will be remembered for a little while, but 10 years from now, all anyone is going to remember is that the Raptors won.

 

[msgkings322]

It goes like this...


Golden St added KD then Boogie. Superteam galore. And everyone seemed to get hurt. Best team ever on paper but for some reason it didn’t happen.

2017 was one of the best teams ever. No way to 'prove' if they were GOAT but they are in the conversation with teams like the 1996 Bulls and 1985 Lakers

 

[Gman]

Read your very first line...

“IMO, you (along with a great many people in this thread) are merely reflecting a "good sportsmanship" type attitude.”

I read that as you saying people who are claiming that the Raptors won and injury’s don’t matter are disingenuous, and just pretending to look like they have good sportsmanship. That was what I was replying to.

If I misread your tone, I apologize.

I see you're coming from... but I didn't mean disingenuous at all.

More like default. As in: well-coached, well raised athletes get the "good sportsmanship" attitude and "no excuses" mindset drilled into them so well that it becomes our go-to... no additional thinking required.

Additionally, we've all been on the wrong end of bad breaks... and no one likes whiner. I get it. If I were a Golden State fan, I bet I'd be getting a lot more grief than I have been right now.

Bottom line: no matter what, we tend to default to platitudes/clichés in cases like this. "Next man up." "No excuses." Etc., etc.

My counter-point is simply this: sometimes the 'bad break' is way worse than the run-of-the-mill, routine stuff that's always happening in sports. Again, we're talking about 2 HOF type players in their prime here.

That's not just another thing... it isn't. And there may be a need for coaches and athletes to say all the right things during and in the aftermath of such rotten bad breaks... but I don't see why we fans on a message board can't just call a spade a spade.

 

[Gman]

Making a concession to the Warriors injuries isn't agreeing that the Raptors title deserves an asterisk.

It's simply acknowledging that the outcome may have been different had the Warriors been healthy.

No "may have" about it.

I mean... there's always a chance.

But in a 7 game series, the "always a chance" stuff gets minimized to a great degree.

A healthy Golden State wins this series hands down.

 

[calsnowskier]

I see you're coming from... but I didn't mean disingenuous at all.

More like default. As in: well-coached, well raised athletes get the "good sportsmanship" attitude and "no excuses" mindset drilled into them so well that it becomes our go-to... no additional thinking required.

Additionally, we've all been on the wrong end of bad breaks... and no one likes whiner. I get it. If I were a Golden State fan, I bet I'd be getting a lot more grief than I have been right now.

Bottom line: no matter what, we tend to default to platitudes/clichés in cases like this. "Next man up." "No excuses." Etc., etc.

My counter-point is simply this: sometimes the 'bad break' is way worse than the run-of-the-mill, routine stuff that's always happening in sports. Again, we're talking about 2 HOF type players in their prime here.

That's not just another thing... it isn't. And there may be a need for coaches and athletes to say all the right things during and in the aftermath of such rotten bad breaks... but I don't see why we fans on a message board can't just call a spade a spade.

But they went down, in part, because they played so many additional games in the recent past. And all those games were played against teams going their hardest (or at least above average effort). That causes some serious fatigue which can lead to injury.

All that is part of the calculus of the gauntlet they go through.

They fell.

The Raptors didn’t.

Your 2018/2019 NBA Champions... Toronto Raptors

 

[calsnowskier]

No "may have" about it.

I mean... there's always a chance.

But in a 7 game series, the "always a chance" stuff gets minimized to a great degree.

A healthy Golden State wins this series hands down.

But the road they have traveled over the last few years enters into the calculus. You can’t ignore it, or excuse it.

 

[msgkings322]

But they went down, in part, because they played so many additional games in the recent past. And all those games were played against teams going their hardest (or at least above average effort). That causes some serious fatigue which can lead to injury.

All that is part of the calculus of the gauntlet they go through.

That's one of the reasons next year for the Ws is so interesting. One could make a case that it would be better for them to tank next year so Curry and Draymond and Iggy get to skip the playoff grind for a change, in a year where they are unlikely to be contenders. If KD re-ups then I would say go for it (he has a very good shot of being back for the last few games and playoffs). But if it's just Klay? Why kill yourselves to be a 6 seed and go down in the 2nd round? Why not rest everyone a lot?

But then...it's Draymond's contract year. And Iggy's too I think. They're not getting any younger and Dray's going to want to try to make an All NBA team or DPOY to get more $ and he will want to compete.

This offseason is going to be fascinating for so many teams. I feel like the season hasn't even ended really.

 

[Robotech]

That's one of the reasons next year for the Ws is so interesting. One could make a case that it would be better for them to tank next year so Curry and Draymond and Iggy get to skip the playoff grind for a change, in a year where they are unlikely to be contenders. If KD re-ups then I would say go for it (he has a very good shot of being back for the last few games and playoffs). But if it's just Klay? Why kill yourselves to be a 6 seed and go down in the 2nd round? Why not rest everyone a lot?

But then...it's Draymond's contract year. And Iggy's too I think. They're not getting any younger and Dray's going to want to try to make an All NBA team or DPOY to get more $ and he will want to compete.

This offseason is going to be fascinating for so many teams. I feel like the season hasn't even ended really.

Definitely doubt that Draymond will buy into load management.