Asterisk!?

[Gman]

The question presumes injuries didn't play a role in every basketball season ever.

Were the Dubs severely hobbled by injuries? Yes. Would a Warriors team with no injuries have beaten Toronto? Probably. But unless you want to qualify every title ever, this kind of thing happens every year. Chris Paul injured his leg last year and missed the last two games of the Warriors' series against the Rockets. Have you put an asterisk on the Dubs title?

The San Jose Sharks got ravaged by injuries in the NHL Western Conference Finals and the Boston Bruins got bitten by the injury bug in the Stanley Cup Finals. The St. Louis Blues took advantage and won the Cup.

Might the Super Bowl have gone to the Rams if Gurley had two knees?

Injuries always play a major factor in all contact sports; we could dig up injury asterisks on nearly all championship teams.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... injuries are a part of sports, injuries happen, injuries always play a role.

These points are not in dispute.

The difference in this case is degree. We're talking 2 HOF players here that are both well within their primes.

That doesn't happen all the time. That isn't just another thing.

 

[DarthVedder]

Injuries are part of the game. Do the warriors get an * when Kawhi went down after dominating them for 3 quarters? Warriors at full strength likely would have won the series, but the Raptors didn't do anything wrong and played no part in the injuries, so it's unfair to somehow degrade their accomplishment.

 

[lebron23james]

Curry was 100%
Green was 100%
Iggy was 100%
Thompson played most of the series
Cousins played

They had 2 weeks off well Kawhi and the raptors was in a rough 7 game series with like 4 days off in between.

Just like i said when the matchups are even, GS loses. Kawhi historic run was actually worse than Lebrons run in 2017. GS beats you by having more stars, but take just 1 away, and they collapse, because individually they are not superstars outside of Durant. Read twitter, everyone agrees and Curry's 0-8 in the 4th quarter is currently being brought up, and the fact that that core has never beaten anything note worthy without Durant.

 

[raptorlife4]

Kawhi had knee issues. Lowry had 1 thumb.

 

[lebron23james]

 

[RP-29]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... injuries are a part of sports, injuries happen, injuries always play a role.

These points are not in dispute.

The difference in this case is degree. We're talking 2 HOF players here that are both well within their primes.

That doesn't happen all the time. That isn't just another thing.

Joe Pavelski and Erik Karlsson - both possible hall of famers - got hurt in the NHL WCF. Sharks were up 2-1 on the Blues in the series and the Sharks had momentum until the wheels fell off with those two key injuries.

Zdeno Chara and Patrice Bergeron - both future hall of famers - got hurt in the NHL SCF. Bruins were up 2-1 on the Blues in the series and the Sharks had momentum until the wheels wobbled with those two key injuries.

It happened twice in the NHL in consecutive series just these past couple weeks. Maybe we should put two asterisks next to the Blues' first ever Stanley Cup Championship?

 

[Gman]

Kawhi had knee issues. Lowry had 1 thumb.

Comparing injuries that still leave the players on the court at around 80-90% to injuries that take players out is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[lebron23james]

Comparing injuries that still leave the players on the court at around 80-90% to injuries that take players out is comparing apples to oranges.

That is what i said in 2015, and was told we had better defense to make up for missing 2 all stars

Maybe GS played better defense tho? Thoughts

 

[Gman]

Joe Pavelski and Erik Karlsson - both possible hall of famers - got hurt in the NHL WCF. Sharks were up 2-1 on the Blues in the series and the Sharks had momentum until the wheels fell off with those two key injuries.

Zdeno Chara and Patrice Bergeron - both future hall of famers - got hurt in the NHL SCF. Bruins were up 2-1 on the Blues in the series and the Sharks had momentum until the wheels wobbled with those two key injuries.

It happened twice in the NHL in consecutive series just these past couple weeks. Maybe we should put two asterisks next to the Blues' first ever Stanley Cup Championship?

I never said or suggested that what happened to GS here is unprecedented in the annals of sports. Just that it's a very notable/extreme example of the effect of injuries and worthy of being considered an 'exception that proves the rule.'

I'm not a big hockey fan, so I can't speak as intelligently on the issue you bring up...

... but, sure: what you describe sounds like it very well may be "asterisk" worthy as well.

Why not?

Say it with me:

Asterisk!, Asterisk!, Asterisk!

 

[cmc_rebar]

It’s a fun day at the office. 2 big GS fans here are having to eat a lot of crow. Whining about injuries, claiming it was rigged in Raptors favor, generally having a meltdown.

All the while the mini busses in SF are breathing a huge sigh of relief

 

[Dolemite censored]

For reference purposes, this is Poutine:

Poutine - Wikipedia

A heart attack on a plate.

 

[Gman]

A heart attack on a plate.

Those meals always taste the best, though.

 

[RP-29]

I never said or suggested that what happened to GS here is unprecedented in the annals of sports.

I'm not a big hockey fan, so I can't speak as intelligently on the issue you bring up...

... but, sure: what you describe sounds like it very well may be "asterisk" worthy as well.

Why not?

Say it with me:

Asterisk!, Asterisk!, Asterisk!

Haha, I'm not really an asterisk guy. I don't like that Pete Rose, Mark McGuire, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are not in the HOF. They were transcendent among their peers who all played by the same rules and did the same things they did.

I say forget the self-righteous 'ifs' and excuses, give props to those who earned their successes.

And regarding GS-TOR, remember that TOR had a better regular season record than GS did and TOR beat the team with the best overall record in the NBA en route. TOR was an excellent team playing excellent basketball all year. Even if GS was at full strength, this series very well could've been TOR's anyway. No asterisk.

 

[Judge Fudge]

It’s a fun day at the office. 2 big GS fans here are having to eat a lot of crow. Whining about injuries, claiming it was rigged in Raptors favor, generally having a meltdown.

All the while the mini busses in SF are breathing a huge sigh of relief

It's going to be a fun day from Victoria to St. John's Newfoundland up here.

Alot can say it or claim it but this is truly Canada's team.

 

[RP-29]

It's going to be a fun day from Victoria to St. John's Newfoundland up here.

Alot can say it or claim it but this is truly Canada's team.

Might as well enjoy the roundball victory; Canadian teams won't be kissing the true Holy Grail anytime soon.

 

[Gman]

Haha, I'm not really an asterisk guy. I don't like that Pete Rose, Mark McGuire, Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are not in the HOF. They were transcendent among their peers who all played by the same rules and did the same things they did.

I say forget the self-righteous 'ifs' and excuses, give props to those who earned their successes.

^ Fair enough.

And regarding GS-TOR, remember that TOR had a better regular season record than GS did and TOR beat the team with the best overall record in the NBA en route. TOR was an excellent team playing excellent basketball all year. Even if GS was at full strength, this series very well could've been TOR's anyway. No asterisk.

Personally, I am very hesitant to make any type of strong claims about NBA basketball based on the regular season. There's too much coasting, too much resting, full effort is too often lacking, it's too much of a slog (80+ games)...

... long story short: the regular season just isn't the same as the post season... they are two different animals.

That said: the Raptors are a very strong team, they had a great season, and I honestly do not want to take anything away from them. Like I said earlier in the thread... it isn't their fault that the Warriors were struck down with injuries.

My position here really has almost nothing to do with the Raptors by themselves. It's not a comment on or critique of them specifically beyond the belief that Toronto is not as good as the best team in basketball: a healthy GS squad.

 

[tlance]

Yeah they deserved it just like the 15 Warriors but lets not pretend Steph still had more around him than Lebron had around him with that shit roster for 5 games. The Warriors had so many luxuries this year it's mind-boggling.

No KD. It sucks but they still have a championship roster.
No Klay for a game. You still have Steph, Cousins, Draymond and Iggy. A very nice contending team.

If most teams lose their best player or top 2 player on their team...that's it.

It sucks what happened to KD and Klay but nobody is feeling sorry for the Warriors they have been on the other side of the injury bug so many times over the years. They had some damn good teams but also some damn good luck.

Congrats to Toronto they were definitely the better team.

Of course.

I am not pretending that. A lot more talent surrounding Steph.

My biggest point in the 2015/2016 debates is that the value of the surrounding pieces in Cleveland cannot be compared to the value of the pieces in GS because they are relied upon much differently.

LeBron was a transcendent player capable of carrying a franchise on his back to win playoff series against good, not great teams. Kyrie and Love clearly made them better. But their absence is not directly comparable to say Klay Thompson in the Warrior system.

While Kyrie might be the better player, (he is not IMO, but a very reasonable position that many will take) his value to the Cavs never approached Klay's value or even Dray's value to GS. Because they were always dependent on all 3 of those guys playing at a high level to execute their system.

That is my point.

Pre KD, The Warriors were always better positioned to survive a Curry injury than the Cavs were to survive a LeBron injury. But, the Cavs were much better positioned to survive an injury to Kyrie or Love than the Warriors were to survive injury to Klay or Dray.

The Warrior 3 was dependent on each other while Cleveland was dependent on LeBron with some really nice pieces around him.

 

[CitySushi]

LOL. This thread specifically to piss off both the Raptors and Warriors fans. OP is a legend.

 

[shopson67]

Yeah.

No excuses. Next man up. {insert cliché here}

Go get a championship, Alfonzo McKinnie and Quinn Cook!

That's about the best you can hope for as depth when you have 4 max types already on the roster, along with a super sub like Iggy and a bonus, rehabbing 5th previous max type.

 

[Eugene Baker III]

Simple question.

Should the Toronto Raptors' 2019 NBA title forever be following by an "*" in the minds of B-ball fans because of the injury situation of the Golden State Warriors?

Or not?

What says the Hoop!

Note - No extra options in the polling aside from the obligatory potato salad option. Take a stand, pussies.

Raptors were up 3-1, 3-2...remember? Their win was inevitable.

The #WokeHoax Warriors were doomed to failure.

Steve Kerr: Most "woke" coach in the NBA