Arrowverse: Arrow, Batwoman, Black Lightning, Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl, Superman & Lois

[The Q]

Like we saw with the Trajectory episode, the velocity serum makes you faster but it also brings out the evil in you as well (as well as bunch of it will turn your speed lightening blue). It brings out another personality if you will, sort of like what happened with Spiderman's Green Goblin. Recall the scene where she was having a conversation with herself in the lab before she took the serum.

Anyway, he would turn good, simply by getting off the serum as that effect would wear off, presumably. Again, this also explains his fear of the velocity serums and why he doesn't want Barry to take them. Evidently, over time, this is why he lost his speed as well but he has given a couple of reasons for that. First Zoom took it and then it was due to Velocity 6 I think. Actually, now that I think of it, if this theory is correct, both of those reasons could hold true.

To your 2nd point, he does know not to keep taking it... again, that is why he doesn't want Barry to take it. Although, he does take it a couple of times on E1 (to save Cisco and while Barry is on E2) without showing much of a mental struggle. Here, keep in mind though, Jay is(was) dying as well. The idea would be that Jay actually quit using the serum (or maybe just ran out) and became Jay again. He would still be dying and perhaps when he first did this, he still had most of his original speed, so he could travel back in time as a attempt to stop himself. It would just mean that over time, off the serum, it slowly went away.

In a nutshell the time line would be:

1. Well's accelerator blows - Turns Jay into The Flash
2. Jay acts as The Flash for sometime but desires to be faster, then develops the velocity serum
3. Over time, this serum turns him into Zoom
4. Zoom does lots of bad things in E2
5. Zoom runs out of serum or something happens where Jay finds away to escape the grasp of the velocity serum and stops taking it.
6. Jay, still having much of his original speed force travels back in time to what I have as (4) here as an attempt to stop himself(Zoom) from something bad he did. Much like Eobard in S1 though, he gets stuck as his powers start to fade.

One thing that has never really been clear is when specifically did Jay lose his powers. Originally, they said it was when he was battling Zoom on the rooftop and Zoom had him almost defeated but he was sucked through the portal to Earth 1. That doesn't really make sense with the whole velocity serum thing which he now said was how he lost his powers. However, if that is why he lost his powers, and they were already gone when he was sucked in the portal, why would he be fighting Zoom without powers?

I think a Fight Club like theory would have been fun too but I don't see how that works out with Zoom holding a dead Jay. TLDR

Holy moly

Great job. It makes sense.

I'd like to think he could recognize his own uncovered face though. Lol. But again, Superman hides behind glasses....oh well.

Also, copying thawnes story would be a bit weak.

But dude this is about as good of a theory as I've heard so far.

I think the man in the mask is the key to unlocking it all.

Maybe its thawne? Maybe he has time travel ability ans that's why zoom kept him alive. Who knkws.

 

[calsnowskier]

Holy moly

Great job. It makes sense.

I'd like to think he could recognize his own uncovered face though. Lol. But again, Superman hides behind glasses....oh well.

Also, copying thawnes story would be a bit weak.

But dude this is about as good of a theory as I've heard so far.

I think the man in the mask is the key to unlocking it all.

Maybe its thawne? Maybe he has time travel ability ans that's why zoom kept him alive. Who knkws.

I like that...

 

[TheRangerDude]

Holy moly

Great job. It makes sense.

I'd like to think he could recognize his own uncovered face though. Lol. But again, Superman hides behind glasses....oh well.

Also, copying thawnes story would be a bit weak.

But dude this is about as good of a theory as I've heard so far.

I think the man in the mask is the key to unlocking it all.

Maybe its thawne? Maybe he has time travel ability ans that's why zoom kept him alive. Who knkws.

Thanks, but yeah, there is some holes in it:

1. Why would they go out of their way to show us Hunter Zoloman in E1

2. This theory doesn't necessary need nor explain the guy in the iron mask which I agree is key to some of this seasons secrets.

That's one reason I still lean to the twin theory. Now that I look at it, this is actually pretty close to what @calsnowskier had for his number 2 theory. Main difference is that the Zoom is just the physical form of the evil side brought out by the serum, it separated from him somehow rather than being a past version of Jay. I could see that too. Who knows maybe the guy in the mask could be the guy who helped separate them. Maybe Jay was working with another scientist on something that would cure/eliminate the evil split personalty type thing the serum creates but instead of eliminating it, it caused him to split somehow. He holds the other guy captive because he holds the key to putting them back together.

I like the idea of the guy in the mask being E2 or even E1 Thawne as well... that would be way more of a twist than it being E1 Jay.

 

[The Q]

Yeah. The hunter zolomon/jay Garrick twin thing needs to be explained. Or at least, why are they twins?

That is another reason I kinda expect the man in the mask to be a look alike jay garrick/zolomon.

 

[calsnowskier]

Thanks, but yeah, there is some holes in it:

1. Why would they go out of their way to show us Hunter Zoloman in E1

2. This theory doesn't necessary need nor explain the guy in the iron mask which I agree is key to some of this seasons secrets.

That's one reason I still lean to the twin theory. Now that I look at it, this is actually pretty close to what @calsnowskier had for his number 2 theory. Main difference is that the Zoom is just the physical form of the evil side brought out by the serum, it separated from him somehow rather than being a past version of Jay. I could see that too. Who knows maybe the guy in the mask could be the guy who helped separate them. Maybe Jay was working with another scientist on something that would cure/eliminate the evil split personalty type thing the serum creates but instead of eliminating it, it caused him to split somehow. He holds the other guy captive because he holds the key to putting them back together.

I like the idea of the guy in the mask being E2 or even E1 Thawne as well... that would be way more of a twist than it being E1 Jay.

The prob with the man in the mask (MitM) just being some random scientist is that they would not need to have him wearing a mask. He is wearing a mask because he is someone we already know (E1 Garrick, E2 Zoloman, E2 Thawne, E2 Wally, etc).

 

[OutlawImmortal]

3) E2 Garrick has an identical twin, E2 Zolloman, who is Zoom. Maybe the fact that they are identical leads to Cisco seeing Zoom through Garrick's helmet. The man in the mask is E1 Garrick (with E1 Zolloman being the man in the park), or vice-versa.

I think my theory 2 is probably going to be closest to what we actually see.

Didn't Garrick say that there was no Jay Garrick on E1? Only Zolomon. That lead me to believe it was an either/or situation.

This is kind of funny, I have had people in this same thread tell me he is clearly black when mentioning a theory in line with what you had as number 3

I guess it could be dirt, looked more like black skin to me.

 

[calsnowskier]

Didn't Garrick say that there was no Jay Garrick on E1? Only Zolomon. That lead me to believe it was an either/or situation.



I guess it could be dirt, looked more like black skin to me.

Garrick apparently knew the identity of Zoom and never said anything. And you trust what he said about Zoloman?

In the ep where Garrick was "killed", they showed MitM, and I thought it was rather clear he had a white neck.

 

[The Q]

Garrick apparently knew the identity of Zoom and never said anything. And you trust what he said about Zoloman?

In the ep where Garrick was "killed", they showed MitM, and I thought it was rather clear he had a white neck.

Why do you use quotes?

Some version of Jay Garrick was killed....or are you saying that impaling him didn't kill him?

 

[calsnowskier]

Why do you use quotes?

Some version of Jay Garrick was killed....or are you saying that impaling him didn't kill him?

We are talking Arrow-verse. No one is ever killed.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Garrick apparently knew the identity of Zoom and never said anything. And you trust what he said about Zoloman?

In the ep where Garrick was "killed", they showed MitM, and I thought it was rather clear he had a white neck.

There are still a ton of holes in that theory, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[TheRangerDude]

I guess it could be dirt, looked more like black skin to me.

Yeah, honestly I have no idea either way.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Yeah, honestly I have no idea either way.

I took another look.


The neck does look white.

 

[The Q]

There are still a ton of holes in that theory, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

The problem is there are tons of holes in the actual story too.

So anyone making a guess is going to have holes anyway.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

The problem is there are tons of holes in the actual story too.

So anyone making a guess is going to have holes anyway.

That's definitely true. Would be quite a bit of misdirection to have Trajectory have split personalities only to conclude that Zoom was a twin.

We know he needs to steal speed force from people, I assume to stay alive. Perhaps he needs enough speed to be able to phase into E1 Garrick's body. That's the only possibility I see, in regards to requiring E1 Garrick. I'm assuming E1 Garrick isn't a speedster if E2 is any indication, it's either Garrick or Barry who become speedsters (that we know of), not both. If your cells are degenerating then what better host than a doppelganger from a parallel universe?

Really far out theory but I'm just having trouble understanding why Zoom would keep an E1 Garrick, who's not a speedster.

 

[UK Cowboy]

That's definitely true. Would be quite a bit of misdirection to have Trajectory have split personalities only to conclude that Zoom was a twin.

We know he needs to steal speed force from people, I assume to stay alive. Perhaps he needs enough speed to be able to phase into E1 Garrick's body. That's the only possibility I see, in regards to requiring E1 Garrick. I'm assuming E1 Garrick isn't a speedster if E2 is any indication, it's either Garrick or Barry who become speedsters (that we know of), not both. If your cells are degenerating then what better host than a doppelganger from a parallel universe?

Really far out theory but I'm just having trouble understanding why Zoom would keep an E1 Garrick, who's not a speedster.

I thought Trajectory's split was a side effect of taking the drug

 

[gkekoa]

I believe the man in the mask is the real Jay Garrick from E2. It would be too much of a disservice to the history of "The Flash" to make Jay bad.

We know...
Eobard Thawne was scared when he saw Garrick's helmet. Was he scared because he knew of Garrick or Zoom? I can't imagine he was afraid of Garrick. So confused.

Zoom has blue lightning which suggests Velocity formula. Could it mean he just runs faster? Could it be the sickness?

All else...up in the air.

 

[The Q]

I believe the man in the mask is the real Jay Garrick from E2. It would be too much of a disservice to the history of "The Flash" to make Jay bad.

We know...
Eobard Thawne was scared when he saw Garrick's helmet. Was he scared because he knew of Garrick or Zoom? I can't imagine he was afraid of Garrick. So confused.

Zoom has blue lightning which suggests Velocity formula. Could it mean he just runs faster? Could it be the sickness?

All else...up in the air.

Well we know Zoom is hunter zolomon.

But based on your interpretation, who the hell of the Jay Garrick that got impaled if he's not the real E2 Jay?

 

[gkekoa]

We know in the comics zoom is Hunter. We know E1 Jay was called Hunter but what does that actually mean. We know E1 Jay can't be Zoom because Zoom was on E2 when the breaches opened. The Jay that got impaled was probably E1 Jay, Hunter Zoloman.

 

[The Q]

We know in the comics zoom is Hunter. We know E1 Jay was called Hunter but what does that actually mean. We know E1 Jay can't be Zoom because Zoom was on E2 when the breaches opened. The Jay that got impaled was probably E1 Jay, Hunter Zoloman.

but the Jay that got impaled pointed out Hunter Zolomon to Caitlyn (in the park). Was that a hologram?

 

[calsnowskier]

Here is how I see all the different permutations...

E2 Jay (part a) = Team Flash
E2 Jay (part b) = Zoom (due to a physical split due to v6)
E2 Hunter = MitM
E1 Jay = ???
E1 Hunter = Man in the Park (MitP)

A few other possibilities...

MitM = E1 Jay
Zoom = E2 Hunter