Are you ready?

[jontaejones]

"I can't beat these guys after I had them down 3-1. So fuck it I'm joining them and going to get my ring."

David West is a small piece to a puzzle that the Warriors brought in. KD knew exactly what he was doing. Good for him, bad for the NBA. Hope it doesn't get worse.

It's like getting friendzoned and having the chick tell you about the hot sex she's having with her new boyfriend...

Well. Maybe not exactly.

 

[gpm1976]

The bold is why I consider Shaq a ring chaser. Lebron may have wanted him, but the Cavs were also one of the best teams in the East and Lebron had recently gotten them to the finals.

Shaq was trying to get one more ring before he retired. That's not necessarily a criticism of Shaq either. Dude was playing out the string on his career, why not try to get one last ring on the way out? Heck, I'd probably do the same if I had the chance.

If I'm Shaq, of course I'll take the money and go after another ring. But if the Cavs were looking to round out the roster, why Shaq? At that stage in his career he was good for maybe 10-15 minutes a game? The cavs even had to pay luxury taxes to get him on the roster. Felt to me like it was more of Lebron pulling the string to surround himself with 'his' guys. I do remember the Heat signing Greg Oden a few years ago, but that was very specific... they wanted him really only in certain match-ups with the Pacers.

 

[shopson67]

That was in reference to Shopson, not you.

It doesn't bother me either. It does tarnish the legacy a little in comparison.

 

[shopson67]

I don't know whether it was @shopson or @LAD that claimed that Lebron is something like a top 10 player all time. I would love to hear who the the 9 guys you have ahead of him are.

So you DON'T think he's in the top 10? Being in the top 10 and BEING #10 are two different things. Magic just said Lebron has moved INTO the top 5 in his opinion. I would probably agree with that, would have to think through who my top 5 all time are, while trying to be fair to all positions and what those past players meant to the game in their eras.

 

[flyerhawk]

It doesn't bother me either. It does tarnish the legacy a little in comparison.

So provide a list of 9 players you think are better than Lebron.

 

[flyerhawk]

So you DON'T think he's in the top 10? Being in the top 10 and BEING #10 are two different things. Magic just said Lebron has moved INTO the top 5 in his opinion. I would probably agree with that, would have to think through who my top 5 all time are, while trying to be fair to all positions and what those past players meant to the game in their eras.

Oh so you've moved from Top 10 to top 5. That was quick.

 

[trojanfan12]

If I'm Shaq, of course I'll take the money and go after another ring. But if the Cavs were looking to round out the roster, why Shaq? At that stage in his career he was good for maybe 10-15 minutes a game? The cavs even had to pay luxury taxes to get him on the roster. Felt to me like it was more of Lebron pulling the string to surround himself with 'his' guys. I do remember the Heat signing Greg Oden a few years ago, but that was very specific... they wanted him really only in certain match-ups with the Pacers.

I think it was because Lebron was very young at the time and was still a little bit in awe of who Shaq used to be. Lebron probably grew up watching and idolizing Shaq and now he had a chance to play on the same team.

Lebron already had a lot of power within the Cavs organization, but didn't yet know how to use it.

I think that if Lebron knew then, what he knows now, Shaq isn't on that team.

 

[shopson67]

Oh so you've moved from Top 10 to top 5. That was quick.

I originally said top 10 as I hadn't put the work in to establish my top 5. I still said "probably agree", as I would have Lebron either top 5 or just out (6 or 7 maybe). It's really only the difference of a spot or two.

It all depends on how you do your ratings, as guys like Jabbar and Chamberlain completely changed the game. Then you have MJ and Magic, both of whom I have ahead of Lebron. Where does Russell fit, as the ultimate champion and elite defensive player?

 

[gpm1976]

I think it was because Lebron was very young at the time and was still a little bit in awe of who Shaq used to be. Lebron probably grew up watching and idolizing Shaq and now he had a chance to play on the same team.

Lebron already had a lot of power within the Cavs organization, but didn't yet know how to use it.

I think that if Lebron knew then, what he knows now, Shaq isn't on that team.

I agree. But I see Lue sitting on the bench and I'm not convinced Lebron is any smarter now than he was back then. If he could check his ego, the cavs might actually be able to get some decent coaching.

 

[gpm1976]

I originally said top 10 as I hadn't put the work in to establish my top 5. I still said "probably agree", as I would have Lebron either top 5 or just out (6 or 7 maybe). It's really only the difference of a spot or two.

It all depends on how you do your ratings, as guys like Jabbar and Chamberlain completely changed the game. Then you have MJ and Magic, both of whom I have ahead of Lebron. Where does Russell fit, as the ultimate champion and elite defensive player?

MJ should probably go ahead of Lebron.. maybe Magic too, but Magic had the best team around him every season. Jabbar in the top 10 for sure, but Chamberlain?? Not so sure about that.

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree. But I see Lue sitting on the bench and I'm not convinced Lebron is any smarter now than he was back then. If he could check his ego, the cavs might actually be able to get some decent coaching.

See, I don't think Lue is necessarily the problem. I think the Warriors are the problem. They just have more guys. Something that has been commented on over the 3 games is that, even when the Warriors go to their bench, they still can have 2 all stars on the floor at the same time. The Cavs don't have that luxury.

Imo, the Cavs are a championship caliber team and no worse than the 3rd best team in the league (I see them and the Spurs as pretty even). If not for what was basically a perfect storm of unusual circumstances and timing re: their contracts, the Warriors don't get KD and we're looking at a very different series.

Heck, if not for that, we might be watching Cavs/Spurs instead of Cavs/Warriors.

 

[gpm1976]

See, I don't think Lue is necessarily the problem. I think the Warriors are the problem. They just have more guys. Something that has been commented on over the 3 games is that, even when the Warriors go to their bench, they still can have 2 all stars on the floor at the same time. The Cavs don't have that luxury.

Imo, the Cavs are a championship caliber team and no worse than the 3rd best team in the league (I see them and the Spurs as pretty even). If not for what was basically a perfect storm of unusual circumstances and timing re: their contracts, the Warriors don't get KD and we're looking at a very different series.

Heck, if not for that, we might be watching Cavs/Spurs instead of Cavs/Warriors.

Lue isn't the problem, but the cavs could save the 9.5 mill they're paying him and put that towards getting some additional talent on the team... and I do agree that the cavs just can't match up w/the warriors. Kyrie and expecially Lebron are just gassed out by the end of the game. I like Kevin Love, but I just can't consider him and elite player.

 

[trojanfan12]

Lue isn't the problem, but the cavs could save the 9.5 mill they're paying him and put that towards getting some additional talent on the team... and I do agree that the cavs just can't match up w/the warriors. Kyrie and expecially Lebron are just gassed out by the end of the game. I like Kevin Love, but I just can't consider him and elite player.

I don't think the coach counts towards the cap and the Cavs are capped out. I don't know all of their contract situations, but they need to try and move some guys and get in some guys that are more athletic.

For example, the reason Love tends to struggle vs. the Warriors is that they are an athletic team and he is basically a spot up shooter. A guy who's standing in 1 spot is easy to defend, but at least Love can score inside some and is a good rebounder. Then, they bring in Korver, who statistically should help them with 3 point shooting, but he's also basically Kevin Love minus the rebounding and inside game. Both are defensive liabilities.

Imo, the Cavs should look to trade Love or maybe a package deal involving Korver to get a player or 2 that is more athletic and plays some defense.

 

[shopson67]

I don't think the coach counts towards the cap and the Cavs are capped out. I don't know all of their contract situations, but they need to try and move some guys and get in some guys that are more athletic.

For example, the reason Love tends to struggle vs. the Warriors is that they are an athletic team and he is basically a spot up shooter. A guy who's standing in 1 spot is easy to defend, but at least Love can score inside some and is a good rebounder. Then, they bring in Korver, who statistically should help them with 3 point shooting, but he's also basically Kevin Love minus the rebounding and inside game. Both are defensive liabilities.

Imo, the Cavs should look to trade Love or maybe a package deal involving Korver to get a player or 2 that is more athletic and plays some defense.

Korver is a free agent this summer.

Love to Boston for Bradley/Crowder and filler seems like it would help some of these issues IMO. The filler part is tough, as the PF options on the Celtics (Olynyk, Jerebko, Amir Johnson) are free agents this summer. Maybe Tyler Zeller?

 

[gpm1976]

I don't think the coach counts towards the cap and the Cavs are capped out. I don't know all of their contract situations, but they need to try and move some guys and get in some guys that are more athletic.

For example, the reason Love tends to struggle vs. the Warriors is that they are an athletic team and he is basically a spot up shooter. A guy who's standing in 1 spot is easy to defend, but at least Love can score inside some and is a good rebounder. Then, they bring in Korver, who statistically should help them with 3 point shooting, but he's also basically Kevin Love minus the rebounding and inside game. Both are defensive liabilities.

Imo, the Cavs should look to trade Love or maybe a package deal involving Korver to get a player or 2 that is more athletic and plays some defense.

I was joking.. coaches don't count towards the cap in football, so I would guess they don't in basketball either. Love has done a good job of rebounding, but I'm not sure I like him in the low post. Seems like he gets pushed around too easily. Smith I don't like at all. I was sure he was headed for bigger money somewhere else, but like a bad case of shits he just keeps coming back. I liked the idea of signing Korver, but you're right, he's very limited and only useful in certain line-ups. Cavs have got to do some searching to pick up someone like Green.

 

[trojanfan12]

Korver is a free agent this summer.

Love to Boston for Bradley/Crowder and filler seems like it would help some of these issues IMO. The filler part is tough, as the PF options on the Celtics (Olynyk, Jerebko, Amir Johnson) are free agents this summer. Maybe Tyler Zeller?

Yeah, they should let Korver walk and try to trade Love. Or even try to re-sign Korver and trade Love. Gonna be an interesting off season. The Cavs will almost certainly be looking to make some moves to compete with the Warriors, but I don't know enough about their overall situation, other than they are capped out and deep into the luxury tax, to know if they can get much done.

 

[shopson67]

Cavs have got to do some searching to pick up someone like Green.

Jae Crowder

 

[gpm1976]

Jae Crowder

I'd take Crowder in a heartbeat.