Are the Browns assisting Watson to

[HaroldSeattle]

Curious....do you still think the low base was done to help him out if suspended?

I always felt that was besides the point. However let me ask you this ....if Watson insisted on the salary being the same through out the contract, would the Browns have been willing to do that? After all it looks like they have plenty of cap space in 2022 ( even if they increased the base salary) and are actually hurting with their cap space in 2023 and 2024 and if the suspension wasn't hanging over his head it would be better for Watson to get more sooner. 185,000 divided by 5 years averages to 37 million, Watson is waiting on the 36 million now and the Browns getting cap relief in the wrong season. So tell me WHY did they arrive at 1 million base salary in 2022? Do not tell me it is what the Browns do, because they do that when they need cap space right now and when they tried to sign Watson, they needed cap space in 2023 and 2024, not in 2022.

 

[dtgold88]

I always felt that was besides the point. However let me ask you this ....if Watson insisted on the salary being the same through out the contract, would the Browns have been willing to do that? After all it looks like they have plenty of cap space in 2022 ( even if they increased the base salary) and are actually hurting with their cap space in 2023 and 2024 and if the suspension wasn't hanging over his head it would be better for Watson to get more sooner. 185,000 divided by 5 years averages to 37 million, Watson is waiting on the 36 million now and the Browns getting cap relief in the wrong season. So tell me WHY did they arrive at 1 million base salary in 2022? Do not tell me it is what the Browns do, because they do that when they need cap space right now and when they tried to sign Watson, they needed cap space in 2023 and 2024, not in 2022.

How about you answer my question then I'll answer all of yours.

aw, hell, questions don't scare me so I'll give it a whirl.
*To the first, I'm not sure. Guessing there's a reason the browns (and other teams) have such a low base in year one when they sign guys to large deals/extensions. In addition, maybe with the upcoming cap spike they'd rather have more committed in later years than now with the lower cap threshold.
*to the 2nd....Sorry, but it does seem like what the Browns do as they also did it for Garrett's first season which also starts in 2022.

Your turn.....do you still think the low base was done to help him out if suspended?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

How about you answer my question then I'll answer all of yours.

aw, hell, questions don't scare me so I'll give it a whirl.
*To the first, I'm not sure. Guessing there's a reason the browns (and other teams) have such a low base in year one when they sign guys to large deals/extensions. In addition, maybe with the upcoming cap spike they'd rather have more committed in later years than now with the lower cap threshold.
*to the 2nd....Sorry, but it does seem like what the Browns do as they also did it for Garrett's first season which also starts in 2022.

Your turn.....do you still think the low base was done to help him out if suspended?

Lets say I'm suspicious that it might of been, especially given the clause which clearly show they are actively aiding him in avoiding financial pain.

To the first point, the Browns have cap space to spare in 2022 so didn't really need to massage the numbers to increase it.

 

[dtgold88]

Lets say I'm suspicious that it might of been, especially given the clause which clearly show they are actively aiding him in avoiding financial pain.

To the first point, the Browns have cap space to spare in 2022 so didn't really need to massage the numbers to increase it.

Are you just not aware any cap space they don't use in 2022 carries over to 2023.

Are you also suspicious of Garrett and Ward's deals and the Browns are helping them out in case of suspension? The many other teams who do this are doing the same, too?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Are you also suspicious of Garrett and Ward's deals and the Browns are helping them out in case of suspension? The many other teams who do this are doing the same, too?

No

Are you just not aware any cap space they don't use in 2022 carries over to 2023.

Yes, but still the NEED was not there.

 

[dtgold88]

No


Yes, but still the NEED was not there.

your "no" answer implies you seem to understand this type of deal is common for the Browns whether a guy is facing suspension or not. Yet for watson it must be because of a potential suspension and not just business as usual?

If they put $37 mil on this year's cap that puts us over the cap. How are we paying Clowney his $11 mil, the rookies they'd be drafting after the signing, etc?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

your "no" answer implies you seem to understand this type of deal is common for the Browns whether a guy is facing suspension or not. Yet for watson it must be because of a potential suspension and not just business as usual?

If they put $37 mil on this year's cap that puts us over the cap. How are we paying Clowney his $11 mil, the rookies they'd be drafting after the signing, etc?

Right now they have 41 million in cap space, that includes Clowney contract.

 

[dtgold88]

Right now they have 41 million in cap space, that includes Clowney contract.

My bad.....last I looked at spotrac we were at $26-27 mil in cap room. Not sure how we added cap space if we did. Clowney base is only $1.25 mil. FYI

Either way, I'd rather have some money available if we need it for this year then go right up against the cap. We've been able to be among the top spenders AND in cap space with this regime. Thinking they may know what they are doing.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Yes, for you to say I claimed defense didn't matter was dumb. Well, I might go with a lie as opposed to dumb but you can call yourself a liar or dumb. Your choice.

I'm not the one who said the talent was on the other side and thus wasn't a factor in the success of BM.

Own it, just another statement of yours(or one very similiar) that once you get called on it, you start the comedygold88 deflection dance.

Wow talk about dumb. Got to love this forum.

 

[jarntt]

Your turn.....do you still think the low base was done to help him out if suspended?

Yes, that was definitely part of it.

All teams backload contracts and usually have a ridiculously low year one base salary to help the cap and perhaps also for cash flow reasons because they just gave the player a huge signing bonus. But this is different from any other case. First off, the Browns have $40M in cap space this year so they don't need to do that. Pre-roll over and pre-free agency they are already over next year's cap (a bunch of teams are) and they are the only team already over the 2024 cap. They also have $50M less in cap space than any other team for 2025 and $60M less for 2026. Knowing this, the Browns are in a position where they should start dwindling away at his cap hit even if the suspension wasn't an issue knowing their cap problem is down the road.

Now add to that the fact that if he is suspended for a year he only saves them about $1M in cap space instead of let's say $15M if that was his base salary and again knowing this is a team with a potential salary cap impact down the road, I think it's clear they at least in part structured his contract so that it would help him if suspended. Giving him a $15M year 1 base salary would still have helped their year one cap a lot and would still leave them way under the cap this year but would also protect their overall cap situation a little more ($14M more in my example) in case he is suspended.

If you look at the total cap hit over the life of his contract it only goes down $1M instead of $15M in my example. This was absolutely done to help Watson and also hurts the teams cap by that incremental amount, but we all knew that when we saw the ridiculous contract in the first place coupled with a huge trade compensation. He had already ruled out Cleveland and Cleveland was desperate so they said "F it" and pushed all their chips in. If the contract structure had a $25M base salary in year 1, I don't think Watson would be a Brown. The cap smart move would have been to make his base salary as high as possible so that it would keep them under this year's cap but also allow them to sign anyone else they wanted to, because over the life of his contract each $ they get back while he is suspended never hits their cap. All of the same holds true for the actual cash as well. He never gets that $1M instead of him never getting let's say $15M - $30M or whatever amount.

 

[jarntt]

My bad.....last I looked at spotrac we were at $26-27 mil in cap room. Not sure how we added cap space if we did. Clowney base is only $1.25 mil. FYI

Probably a June 1st designated cut? Or maybe a restructure but that would be dumb with their situation.
Cowboys got $10M in cap space on 6/1 for cutting Collins

 

[dtgold88]

I'm not the one who said the talent was on the other side and thus wasn't a factor in the success of BM.

Own it, just another statement of yours(or one very similiar) that once you get called on it, you start the comedygold88 deflection dance.

Wow talk about dumb. Got to love this forum.

I said the top picks were more on the defense but also said the defense was awful. I guess you can add poor reading comp. to liar or dumb for you. Feel free to choose more than 1 if you like but you can make the call.

 

[dtgold88]

Yes, that was definitely part of it.

All teams backload contracts and usually have a ridiculously low year one base salary to help the cap and perhaps also for cash flow reasons because they just gave the player a huge signing bonus. But this is different from any other case. First off, the Browns have $40M in cap space this year so they don't need to do that. Pre-roll over and pre-free agency they are already over next year's cap (a bunch of teams are) and they are the only team already over the 2024 cap. They also have $50M less in cap space than any other team for 2025 and $60M less for 2026. Knowing this, the Browns are in a position where they should start dwindling away at his cap hit even if the suspension wasn't an issue knowing their cap problem is down the road.

Now add to that the fact that if he is suspended for a year he only saves them about $1M in cap space instead of let's say $15M if that was his base salary and again knowing this is a team with a potential salary cap impact down the road, I think it's clear they at least in part structured his contract so that it would help him if suspended. Giving him a $15M year 1 base salary would still have helped their year one cap a lot and would still leave them way under the cap this year but would also protect their overall cap situation a little more ($14M more in my example) in case he is suspended.

If you look at the total cap hit over the life of his contract it only goes down $1M instead of $15M in my example. This was absolutely done to help Watson and also hurts the teams cap by that incremental amount, but we all knew that when we saw the ridiculous contract in the first place coupled with a huge trade compensation. He had already ruled out Cleveland and Cleveland was desperate so they said "F it" and pushed all their chips in. If the contract structure had a $25M base salary in year 1, I don't think Watson would be a Brown. The cap smart move would have been to make his base salary as high as possible so that it would keep them under this year's cap but also allow them to sign anyone else they wanted to, because over the life of his contract each $ they get back while he is suspended never hits their cap. All of the same holds true for the actual cash as well. He never gets that $1M instead of him never getting let's say $15M - $30M or whatever amount.

The Browns do feel they need to do it, and did the exact same thing for the Garrett deal. are they expecting another helmet throwing incident for him, maybe?

 

[dtgold88]

Probably a June 1st designated cut? Or maybe a restructure but that would be dumb with their situation.
Cowboys got $10M in cap space on 6/1 for cutting Collins

Hooper was a 6/1 designated cut so might have been him. agree no reason for another restructure.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I said the top picks were more on the defense but also said the defense was awful. I guess you can add poor reading comp. to liar or dumb for you. Feel free to choose more than 1 if you like but you can make the call.

That's not what you said.

But then again you're the Hoop Master Spinner. We're used to your dizzing babble.

Spin away

 

[dtgold88]

That's not what you said.

But then again you're the Hoop Master Spinner. We're used to your dizzing babble.

Spin away

If it's not what I said please feel free to find the comment that points to me saying "defense doesn't matter".

 

[jarntt]

The Browns do feel they need to do it, and did the exact same thing for the Garrett deal. are they expecting another helmet throwing incident for him, maybe?

There is zero reason to do it when you are $40M under. Again, give him $21M in year one and you are still $20M under the cap. Clearly a big part was to help him.

Pointing out other examples doesn't prove anything. Like I said every team does it with most players, but this situation is different for all the reasons I pointed out. This is a very unique situation. Garrett wasn't even signed this year and when he was signed he was signed thinking they'd need to sign Baker or another QB to a huge deal so it made more sense. Now they have everyone done for the year including the single biggest cap position that teams need to create space for and still have $40M in cap space. Sorry, but refusing to admit the obvious isn't a great look and IMO this one is so over the top obvious.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

HOLY FN SHIT! Seriously? How many times can you guys make your same argument and not change the other persons mind and just keep going regardless? Who the F cares at this point? Watson is a colossal douchebag. There is no Fn way he is innocent in all these. Some of these women are in this for just a pay day and didn't have anything happen to them. The Browns assisted Watson this year and every other year by guaranteeing the contract in full because fines are usually associated with game checks, not bonuses or guaranteed money.

Give the FN money grabbers their money, he can afford 24 million to make this go away. Take his punishment from the league. Never go to a female masseuse again, use dudes, and then just jizz all over your girlfriend Watson, who I can't believe is still with this jackass, except that I assume she is after a money grab too.

Now you can all go your damn separate ways!

 

[molsaniceman]

HOLY FN SHIT! Seriously? How many times can you guys make your same argument and not change the other persons mind and just keep going regardless? Who the F cares at this point? Watson is a colossal douchebag. There is no Fn way he is innocent in all these. Some of these women are in this for just a pay day and didn't have anything happen to them. The Browns assisted Watson this year and every other year by guaranteeing the contract in full because fines are usually associated with game checks, not bonuses or guaranteed money.

Give the FN money grabbers their money, he can afford 24 million to make this go away. Take his punishment from the league. Never go to a female masseuse again, use dudes, and then just jizz all over your girlfriend Watson, who I can't believe is still with this jackass, except that I assume she is after a money grab too.

Now you can all go your damn separate ways!

ru new to the hoop lol

 

[NWPATSFAN]

If it's not what I said please feel free to find the comment that points to me saying "defense doesn't matter".

Find your own spinned version. The burden of proof is on you. It's not like you haven't set a precedence for being wrong, self admitted here multiple times.