And the deflated balls story plot thickens

[NEPatsfan]

Maybe we should wait for all the information to come out. It's been reported that the officials checked the balls and that they passed, but it has not been confirmed if the officials actually used a guage.

Deflate-Gate: An NFL Ball Boy's Perspective on Preparing Footballs - NBC News

 

[Money]

Maybe we should wait for all the information to come out. It's been reported that the officials checked the balls and that they passed, but it has not been confirmed if the officials actually used a guage.

Deflate-Gate: An NFL Ball Boy's Perspective on Preparing Footballs - NBC News

This is old news. I know this because gauge has been misspelled like 100 times already.

First rule of deflection...blame something on someone else's incompetence.

 

[NEPatsfan]

This is old news. I know this because gauge has been misspelled like 100 times already.

First rule of deflection...blame something on someone else's incompetence.

Typo on my part, and probably make it a lot, especially when I type fast and don't proof.

It's not deflection, it's simply pointing out there may be more to this story, for example the officials didn't use a gauge pre-game, meaning they never really checked the balls and approved them for use.

If that were to turn out to be true then this is an NFL issue not a Pats issue.

 

[HammerDown]

Typo on my part, and probably make it a lot, especially when I type fast and don't proof.

It's not deflection, it's simply pointing out there may be more to this story, for example the officials didn't use a gauge pre-game, meaning they never really checked the balls and approved them for use.

If that were to turn out to be true then this is an NFL issue not a Pats issue.

Wow. you owe me a beer, man.

 

[PatsFan2003]

Maybe we should wait for all the information to come out. It's been reported that the officials checked the balls and that they passed, but it has not been confirmed if the officials actually used a guage.

Deflate-Gate: An NFL Ball Boy's Perspective on Preparing Footballs - NBC News

That's makes a lot of sense to me. The emphasis is on getting the ball in the condition the QB likes it and while they recognize there's a pressure limit, they're more interested in making their QB happy.

This guy didn't even use a gauge, it was by feel.

"I recall them having a pressure gauge in the locker room, but most often they just squeezed the balls, turned them over in their hands a few times each, and inspected the laces. I don't recall them ever rejecting one of our balls," he said.



"My thought process was, 'Let's get the balls exactly the way our quarterback wants them, and if the refs reject one or two before the game, no big deal. But there's no harm giving them our ideal balls and hoping they make it through inspection.'"

But does that mean they'll alter the ball after the ref inspection? That I don't know.

I AM starting to wonder if the refs inspected them as thoroughly as they claimed.

 

[fordman84]

So NBC found someone to interview that has been out of the league longer than Goodell has been in charge of it?

 

[PatsFan2003]

Typo on my part, and probably make it a lot, especially when I type fast and don't proof.

It's not deflection, it's simply pointing out there may be more to this story, for example the officials didn't use a gauge pre-game, meaning they never really checked the balls and approved them for use.

If that were to turn out to be true then this is an NFL issue not a Pats issue.

It's still an issue that the Patriots would inflate the balls below the limits but it's not near as horrible as altering the balls after the inspection.

I don't think it's a deflection at all. I think it's more plausible that what went wrong was more mundane

 

[fordman84]

That's makes a lot of sense to me. The emphasis is on getting the ball in the condition the QB likes it and while they recognize there's a pressure limit, they're more interested in making their QB happy.

This guy didn't even use a gauge, it was by feel.

But does that mean they'll alter the ball after the ref inspection? That I don't know.

I AM starting to wonder if the refs inspected them as thoroughly as they claimed.

That was the process in 2003. If it is still the same process, then you might be on to something. A lot can change in 12 years in the NFL, and Goodell has changed quite a bit.

This might spur more current ballboys to come forward, or the ref union to tell us what they currently do. Actually do I hope, not what the documented procedure SHOULD be. That's key.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Wow. you owe me a beer, man.

Actually since you mention it, I'll be in Nashville on Monday for the week.

 

[NEPatsfan]

So NBC found someone to interview that has been out of the league longer than Goodell has been in charge of it?

Not the point, it's information showing that the officials don't always actually gauge the balls.

We should all just wait for all the information to come out.

 

[NEPatsfan]

A post from another site. Interesting. Do we have any math geeks that can confirm the math?

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:
Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.
*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.
For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

 

[PatsFan2003]

That was the process in 2003. If it is still the same process, then you might be on to something. A lot can change in 12 years in the NFL, and Goodell has changed quite a bit.

This might spur more current ballboys to come forward, or the ref union to tell us what they currently do. Actually do I hope, not what the documented procedure SHOULD be. That's key.

Sure. But I have a funny feeling it's closer to truth than we think. It's part of the pre-game ritual. Ok so now it has to go to the refs afterwards but I bet a lot has stayed the same.

 

[HammerDown]

Actually since you mention it, I'll be in Nashville on Monday for the week.

If you have wheels, come meet me at Sam's on 21st by Vandy. Send me a PM.

 

[HammerDown]

A post from another site. Interesting. Do we have any math geeks that can confirm the math?

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:
Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.
*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.
For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

They cheated.

 

[Rams4ever]

Blah Blah Blah....it is now the referees fault...GOOD GRIEF! Maybe the Cheatriots should just be disbanded?

 

[Rams4ever]

They cheated.

THANK YOU!

 

[SJ76]

Hey nobody knows.. The Patriots don't have a clue how it happened?

Has to be ball boys fault

 

[NEPatsfan]

If you have wheels, come meet me at Sam's on 21st by Vandy. Send me a PM.

Will do. Usually don't know much till I get there. But will shoot you a message once I know more.

 

[williewilliejuan]

A post from another site. Interesting. Do we have any math geeks that can confirm the math?

Science teacher here. Given the conditions of the game, a ball which meets specifications in the locker room could easily lose enough pressure to be considered under-inflated. Some math:
Guy-Lussac's Law describes the relationship between the pressure of a confined ideal gas and its temperature. For the sake of argument, we will assume that the football is a rigid enough container (unless a ball is massively deflated, it's volume won't change). The relationship is (P1/T1) = (P2/T2), where P is the pressure and T is the temperature in Kelvins.
The balls are inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 psi at a temperature of 70 degrees Farenheit (294.1 K). Let's assume an average ball has a gauge pressure of 13 psi. This makes the absolute pressure of the ball 27.7 psi (gauge + atmosphere). Since these are initial values, we will call them P1 and T1.
The game time temperature was 49 degrees F (278 K). We are attempting to solve for the new pressure at this temperature, P2. We plug everything into the equation and get (27.7/294.1) = (P2/278). At the game time temperature, the balls would have an absolute pressure of 26.2 psi and a gauge pressure of 11.5, below league specifications.
*Furthermore, given that it was raining all day, the air in the stadium was saturated with water vapor. At 70 degrees, water has a vapor pressure of 0.38 psi. The total pressure of the ball is equal to the pressure of the air inside the ball and the vaporized water in the ball. At 49 degrees, the vapor pressure of water is 0.13 psi. Up to 0.25 additional psi can be lost if the balls were inflated by either the team or the refs prior to the game. Granted, it's unlikely that anyone would inflate balls from 0, but it easily could cost another couple hundredths of a psi in pressure.
For a ball that barely meets specifications (12.5 psi gauge), it's pressure would drop to 11.1 psi during the game... enough to be considered massively underinflated.

Explain the 12th ball. Explain the properly-inflated Colts balls.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Blah Blah Blah....it is now the referees fault...GOOD GRIEF! Maybe the Cheatriots should just be disbanded?

What's the matter? Can't handle that there is an actual possibility the NFL simply Fd up?