An explanation of the calls by the refs in the Packer/Lion's game

[Manster7588]

With the benefit of slow motion and different camera angles, yes it was BS

During real time in the eyes of the ref, it was legit

Being 10 yards away in person the ref shouldn't have needed replay to see the hand on shoulder pad only.

 

[Trudem]

They're trying to save face.
Admit to the one that only cost 3 points. They don't want to swallow the 7 point as well.

The first one was on the TD drive. The second one on the GW FG

 

[Manster7588]

Hindsight. The ref saw it differently in the moment it happened.

BS would mean that he saw that it wasn't illegal hands to the face in the moment and threw the flag to shit on the Flowers and the Lions. I find that very difficult to believe is the case.

See post 221

 

[Old Lion]

I honestly did not feel this weeks game was any more lopsided than the Chiefs game. I was surprised by all the outrage.

The KC game was almost as bad. The fact that it is 2 games in a row is what has everyone extra pissed.

 

[packerzrule]

Being 10 yards away in person the ref shouldn't have needed replay to see the hand on shoulder pad only.

True that. But you have been watching football long enough to realize that is not the case in many instances.

 

[Old Lion]

Moral of the story, O line men, wear your shoulder pads loose so that they immediately slide up into the neck area on contact.

Wondering how many O-lineman we will see now cock their head back on critical plays to make it look like they are getting hands to the face. Going forward it will most likely be an issue since they know they can get away with it and it cant be reviewed.

 

[NCChiFan]

Wondering how many O-lineman we will see now cock their head back on critical plays to make it look like they are getting hands to the face. Going forward it will most likely be an issue since they know they can get away with it and it cant be reviewed.

All I know is, 2 bullshit calls and 1 bullshit no call cost the Lions that game. Much like the infamous no catch TD play a few years back v. my Bears, you guys have gotten rooked more than your fair share.

 

[RP-29]

Being 10 yards away in person the ref shouldn't have needed replay to see the hand on shoulder pad only.

Easy for you to say; you weren't there looking at the action at full speed from his perspective of the contact.

In all contact sports, penalties are called just as much from the reaction of contact as from actual definitive visual witnessing of contact. Hockey players are trained to snap their head back when a stick comes up close to their face to try to induce a high sticking penalty - and it works. Basketball players are trained to fall backwards to draw a charging call. Etc. Flowers was grabbing the top of Bahktiari's shoulder pads at his neck and was pushing up towards his head. Bahktiari's head went back - probably both from the force of the push and to sell a call. It's gamesmanship and it happens constantly.

 

[RP-29]

Wondering how many O-lineman we will see now cock their head back on critical plays to make it look like they are getting hands to the face. Going forward it will most likely be an issue since they know they can get away with it and it cant be reviewed.

Yep. It will happen. And I wonder how many defensive linemen will see that grabbing the OL's shoulder pads and pushing up and back will be perceived as a penalty by the refs and will subsequently alter their hand technique.

 

[LambeauLegs]

Moral of the story, O line men, wear your shoulder pads loose so that they immediately slide up into the neck area on contact.

I was at the game so did not see the many replays on TV to see what happened and actually watched the DVR recording I made of the game last night. What I saw both times was the defender clearly grabbing the shoulder pads around the neck area. This to me is more defensive holding. I was not aware that you could just grab people to prevent others from moving around.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I guess according to this it does not have to be hands to the face to be a penalty

NFL Refs Explain Controversial Calls Late in Lions’ Loss | Heavy.com

A pool report interview with NFL referee Clete Blakeman in the postgame shed some more light on the controversial calls, but the insights didn’t exactly do much to alleviate the frustrations. Here is Blakeman’s full response when asked what the crew discussed and saw on the calls:

“The umpire threw both of them. The last one was really the only one I’ve discussed with him. Basically, it’s for illegal use of hands, hands-to-the-face foul. To be a foul, we basically need some forceful contact that’s prolonged to the head and neck area of the defender. So, in his mind he had pinned him back, it was prolonged, and that’s what created the foul.”

NFL referee Clete Blakeman in Monday night’s referee pool report.

What a ridiculous explanation, so basically you don’t need hands to the face to be a hands to the face penalty ? WTF are these officials doing ? This is seriously disturbing

 

[NCChiFan]

I was at the game so did not see the many replays on TV to see what happened and actually watched the DVR recording I made of the game last night. What I saw both times was the defender clearly grabbing the shoulder pads around the neck area. This to me is more defensive holding. I was not aware that you could just grab people to prevent others from moving around.

You probably missed the Packers left tackle actually grabbing the face mask of the Lions defensive end, just prior to the first hands to face call. Grabbing and holding happens on every play by both offensive and defensive linemen.

 

[LambeauLegs]

What a ridiculous explanation, so basically you don’t need hands to the face to be a hands to the face penalty ? WTF are these officials doing ? This is seriously disturbing

No it should have been called defensive holding a 5 yard penalty and 1st down

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

No it should have been called defensive holding a 5 yard penalty and 1st down

Defensive holding by a pass rusher ? How does defensive holding benefit a pass rusher ? Lol I’m watching some old NFL games right now from just 5 years ago, and I’m not seeing a fraction of the penalties called in today’s game... These refs are totally out of control, and the league better get its shit together...

 

[LambeauLegs]

Defensive holding by a pass rusher ? How does defensive holding benefit a pass rusher ? Lol I’m watching some old NFL games right now from just 5 years ago, and I’m not seeing a fraction of the penalties called in today’s game... These refs are totally out of control, and the league better get its shit together...

He was clearly holding and grabbing the shoulder pads and if he happened to tug down on the offensive player he could have been called for a horse collar tackle. A defensive pass rusher can hold an offensive tackle from moving around to help with other assignments. As far as I know there is no play that is allowed where a player can grab any other player regardless of position. It is not caught as often as holding is done but in these cases the ref saw the D player grabbing. The ref was warned that this is something that that D player did on a consistent basis. He may change his technique now.

Packers' David Bakhtiari made umpire aware of potential penalties before they were called

GREEN BAY, Wis. – Before the first penalty, David Bakhtiari approached umpire Jeff Rice, frustrated, confused and downright incredulous, and asked a simple but potentially game-altering question.

All night, Detroit Lions defensive end Trey Flowers used the same move against the Green Bay Packers’ All-Pro left tackle. Flowers would jam his hands high and in, near Bakhtiari’s chin strap. Whether Flowers’ hands were at Bakhtiari’s neck and face area or not was perhaps open to perspective.

Bakhtiari, naturally a little biased, thought there was no doubt.

“I went over to the ref,” Bakhtiari recalled in a corner of the Packers locker room, before slipping out into the night after his team’s 23-22 comeback win Monday, “I said, ‘Hey, are we not calling hands to the face again? Because the past three plays, I’ve been staring at the sky.’ And he’s like, you know, he’s not looking at my side, but I at least made him aware.”

Bakhtiari, perhaps, made Rice a little too aware.

“I can definitely tell you,” Bakhtiari said, “for a good portion of the game, I was getting my throat punched in, and I was looking up at the sky a fair amount. If you think about it, if your hand is in my throat, you’re probably hitting my facemask, which is pushing my head up in the sky.”

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

He was clearly holding and grabbing the shoulder pads and if he happened to tug down on the offensive player he could have been called for a horse collar tackle. A defensive pass rusher can hold an offensive tackle from moving around to help with other assignments. As far as I know there is no play that is allowed where a player can grab any other player regardless of position. It is not caught as often as holding is done but in these cases the ref saw the D player grabbing. The ref was warned that this is something that that D player did on a consistent basis. He may change his technique now.

Packers' David Bakhtiari made umpire aware of potential penalties before they were called

GREEN BAY, Wis. – Before the first penalty, David Bakhtiari approached umpire Jeff Rice, frustrated, confused and downright incredulous, and asked a simple but potentially game-altering question.

All night, Detroit Lions defensive end Trey Flowers used the same move against the Green Bay Packers’ All-Pro left tackle. Flowers would jam his hands high and in, near Bakhtiari’s chin strap. Whether Flowers’ hands were at Bakhtiari’s neck and face area or not was perhaps open to perspective.

Bakhtiari, naturally a little biased, thought there was no doubt.

“I went over to the ref,” Bakhtiari recalled in a corner of the Packers locker room, before slipping out into the night after his team’s 23-22 comeback win Monday, “I said, ‘Hey, are we not calling hands to the face again? Because the past three plays, I’ve been staring at the sky.’ And he’s like, you know, he’s not looking at my side, but I at least made him aware.”

Bakhtiari, perhaps, made Rice a little too aware.

“I can definitely tell you,” Bakhtiari said, “for a good portion of the game, I was getting my throat punched in, and I was looking up at the sky a fair amount. If you think about it, if your hand is in my throat, you’re probably hitting my facemask, which is pushing my head up in the sky.”

You seriously can’t justify that call , it was atrocious... It was not hands to the face PERIOD! And that’s what the ref called, also you’re allowed to push on the shoulder, defensive pass rushers don’t benefit from holding, offensive lineman do, even if he had a little grip on the shoulder pad what difference does it make ? He’s allowed to bull rush and push through a guy

 

[Old Lion]

No it should have been called defensive holding a 5 yard penalty and 1st down

You are clueless. Even O-lineman are allowed to grab with their hands as long as it is inside the shoulders.

 

[Dude]

You are clueless. Even O-lineman are allowed to grab with their hands as long as it is inside the shoulders.

I think refs should consider “intent” when reviewing penalties. If a finger or two get tangled in a jersey, helmet or whatever, they should have the decency to overturn a bad call. Same applies to UR. Use common sense FCOL.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

What a ridiculous explanation, so basically you don’t need hands to the face to be a hands to the face penalty ? WTF are these officials doing ? This is seriously disturbing

We also don't actually have to blind side block someone to get called for that either anymore

 

[DefCONNOne]

All I know is, 2 bullshit calls and 1 bullshit no call cost the Lions that game. Much like the infamous no catch TD play a few years back v. my Bears, you guys have gotten rooked more than your fair share.

Sorry, but since you don't own the team, they're not your Bears.