All things offseason

[Dean_Youngblood]

I dunno... this Deebo stuff just feels like negotiating drama. Seems like every year a situation like this lights up, then we learn later it was positioning, etc. I mean - Deebo and Kyle "seem" like they're on the same page. The JG contract situation rears is ugly head... again! Could certainly be wrong, but if Deebo isn't traded by the draft I could see things working out once Jimmy's contract is off the books. Maybe it's just wishful thinking. I got no problem paying the man.

 

[deep9er]

I dunno... this Deebo stuff just feels like negotiating drama. Seems like every year a situation like this lights up, then we learn later it was positioning, etc. I mean - Deebo and Kyle "seem" like they're on the same page. The JG contract situation rears is ugly head... again! Could certainly be wrong, but if Deebo isn't traded by the draft I could see things working out once Jimmy's contract is off the books. Maybe it's just wishful thinking. I got no problem paying the man.

All teams face this with their top players, thats just the way the system works and not blaming Deebo either. The 49ers have more than few 'top NFL players' (TW, Kittle, Warner, Juice), and an even bigger one (Bosa) still to go. Its a good problem to have really, multiple top players from your own drafts.

No team wants to play 'hard ball' but Deebo doesn't have leverage, you try to give him a good deal but can't just pay him whatever he wants. The cap needs to be managed for the entire TEAM, looking out 3 years.

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

All teams face this with their top players, thats just the way the system works and not blaming Deebo either. The 49ers have more than few 'top NFL players' (TW, Kittle, Warner, Juice), and an even bigger one (Bosa) still to go. Its a good problem to have really, multiple top players from your own drafts.

No team wants to play 'hard ball' but Deebo doesn't have leverage, you try to give him a good deal but can't just pay him whatever he wants. The cap needs to be managed for the entire TEAM, looking out 3 years.

Yeah... life is that way, I suppose ;-)

 

[Kinzu]

I'm guessing it is still far apart because Deebo's team is asking to be the highest paid non-QB? I don't think Deebo has much leverage here, he must play out his last year and then there is the franchise tag. He can hold out and sit out, but not many players do this.

And the longer he sits out the more injury prone his body is likely to be which would be a major disaster for him and the team. He'd be smart to take what the 49ers offer him. They're not going to make him the highest paid WR but he'll get Top 5 money and be set even he does get injured.

 

[deep9er]

Yeah... life is that way, I suppose ;-)

Haaaaaa.....yep, thats NFL life.

At least we HAVE top NFL players.

 

[deep9er]

And the longer he sits out the more injury prone his body is likely to be which would be a major disaster for him and the team. He'd be smart to take what the 49ers offer him. They're not going to make him the highest paid WR but he'll get Top 5 money and be set even he does get injured.

We're now seeing Deebo's claim is not even receiving an offer?! IF so then Deebo does have a legit gripe cause why would the 49ers hesitate to make an offer, even a low offer?

On the flip side, after watching Grant Cohn on Youtube, it makes sense that the 49ers were 'feeling out' his Agent. The 49ers more than likely have been negotiating but only verbally. I don't see anything wrong with this but eventually an offer should be given, even if low. As in all negotiations, it always starts LOW so Deebo's side won't be shocked.

 

[deep9er]

While i can't say the 49ers had a good off-season, i think Grant Cohn is exaggerating below. I'm ok with the 49ers negotiating a fair contract with Deebo as opposed to giving him whatever he wants. Similar to all the other big 9er contracts, they start low but eventually find a fair amount. I felt JG was going to fetch a decent trade too, so criticizing the lack of a trade is hindsight. What is decent? I thought maybe as high as a 2nd or a 3rd plus 4th type of deal. Going back to prior all the QB moves and his surgery, I wouldn't have traded him for less than a 3rd plus 4th type deal.

JG will eventually be off the books so that clears cap space, that is when you can "spend more". You don't keep restructuring contracts so that you can spend more. The 49ers already spend on highly paid (NFL wise) players Kittle, TW, Warner, Ch Ward, Juice, Armstead, J. Ward, and soon to be Deebo. How much more can you spend even if you wanted to?

Most reasonable people would agree the 49ers haven't accomplished any of their main objectives this offseason.

They haven't extended Deebo Samuel's contract.

They haven't traded Jimmy Garoppolo.

They haven't used the cap space they could create simply by getting rid of Garoppolo.

Which means the 49ers haven't had a good offseason, right?

John Lynch disagrees.

"I think that's the noise that's out there," Lynch said. "We feel really good about our offseason. We took a hard look at our roster and said, ‘where do we need to be better?’ And we think we've addressed those areas. I think a common theme was we wanted to be better, holistically, on special teams, but we never just want to have special teams players. We want guys that are fits into our offense or defense. And I think Ray-Ray McCloud is a perfect example of that, Oren Burks is a perfect example of that. A very good special teams player, but also a very capable linebacker who provides depth. I think George Odum is another example, a guy who started meaningful games for the Colts last year and played at and what we thought was a really high-level at safety, but this guy's an all-pro special teams player as well. You add a guy like Kemoko Turay late, he's got very good rush skills and we feel like he can thrive in our system. And we like a lot of what I did, Charvarius Ward, that was our number one goal to add a top-flight corner that can match up with the top receivers in this league. And man, I can't tell you how excited we are about Charvarius.


"And so, I mentioned before, and I think a lot of people see that correlation between the money that Jimmy is due and that is somehow prohibiting us from doing what we wanted to do, that wasn't the case. We had a plan, we've been very aggressive, top five, top ten team in terms of cash. And we've had the pedal down for five years. It was time to probably, on the whole, take a step back in terms of the amount of cash and cap we were spending. And so that was planned all along. And still, I think despite those kinds of challenges we were able to have, what I believe, is a really productive offseason. And I'm really excited with where our team's at.”

Let's summarize what Lynch really said:

1. The 49ers may not have had a great offseason, but they did what they wanted to.

2. What they wanted to do was improve special teams and decrease spending because they spent a lot the past five years and needed to dial that back.

What an odd year to spend less, considering they just went to the NFC Championship. You'd think they'd want to spend more this year and actually win the Super Bowl.

 

[Kinzu]

I wouldn't trade Deebo even if the Jets do offer #10. Who are you taking at #10 that you feel good about making the difference that Deebo does?

I'd just pay the guy. What Deebo brings is worth it. Only reason you don't do it is if you think Deebo will break down physically. Offer him 4 years 100m with more guaranteed than Hill got or 125m with less guaranteed. Let Deebo decide which is more important. This takes him to age 30. If he's breaking down it will happen by then, but if you want him to keep carrying the load on offense you have to pay him and make him feel comfortable in the event he does break down.

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

I wouldn't trade Deebo even if the Jets do offer #10. Who are you taking at #10 that you feel good about making the difference that Deebo does?

I'd just pay the guy. What Deebo brings is worth it. Only reason you don't do it is if you think Deebo will break down physically. Offer him 4 years 100m with more guaranteed than Hill got or 125m with less guaranteed. Let Deebo decide which is more important. This takes him to age 30. If he's breaking down it will happen by then, but if you want him to keep carrying the load on offense you have to pay him and make him feel comfortable in the event he does break down.

That's kinda my feeling. I don't mind him getting paid given how much the cap will go up over the next 4 years. Front-end load it with guarantees or back-end load it so that he can claim the "average" is $25M. I don't really care, just pay him... because it won't matter all that much in the end.

Figure if a deal isn't announced in the next 8 hrs, it isn't getting done... and Deebo remains a 9er. Jimmy throws again, then gets traded/cut/re-worked contract to free up space to get a deal done before the start of the season.

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

While i can't say the 49ers had a good off-season, i think Grant Cohn is exaggerating below. I'm ok with the 49ers negotiating a fair contract with Deebo as opposed to giving him whatever he wants. Similar to all the other big 9er contracts, they start low but eventually find a fair amount. I felt JG was going to fetch a decent trade too, so criticizing the lack of a trade is hindsight. What is decent? I thought maybe as high as a 2nd or a 3rd plus 4th type of deal. Going back to prior all the QB moves and his surgery, I wouldn't have traded him for less than a 3rd plus 4th type deal.

JG will eventually be off the books so that clears cap space, that is when you can "spend more". You don't keep restructuring contracts so that you can spend more. The 49ers already spend on highly paid (NFL wise) players Kittle, TW, Warner, Ch Ward, Juice, Armstead, J. Ward, and soon to be Deebo. How much more can you spend even if you wanted to?

Most reasonable people would agree the 49ers haven't accomplished any of their main objectives this offseason.

They haven't extended Deebo Samuel's contract.

They haven't traded Jimmy Garoppolo.

They haven't used the cap space they could create simply by getting rid of Garoppolo.

Which means the 49ers haven't had a good offseason, right?

John Lynch disagrees.

"I think that's the noise that's out there," Lynch said. "We feel really good about our offseason. We took a hard look at our roster and said, ‘where do we need to be better?’ And we think we've addressed those areas. I think a common theme was we wanted to be better, holistically, on special teams, but we never just want to have special teams players. We want guys that are fits into our offense or defense. And I think Ray-Ray McCloud is a perfect example of that, Oren Burks is a perfect example of that. A very good special teams player, but also a very capable linebacker who provides depth. I think George Odum is another example, a guy who started meaningful games for the Colts last year and played at and what we thought was a really high-level at safety, but this guy's an all-pro special teams player as well. You add a guy like Kemoko Turay late, he's got very good rush skills and we feel like he can thrive in our system. And we like a lot of what I did, Charvarius Ward, that was our number one goal to add a top-flight corner that can match up with the top receivers in this league. And man, I can't tell you how excited we are about Charvarius.


"And so, I mentioned before, and I think a lot of people see that correlation between the money that Jimmy is due and that is somehow prohibiting us from doing what we wanted to do, that wasn't the case. We had a plan, we've been very aggressive, top five, top ten team in terms of cash. And we've had the pedal down for five years. It was time to probably, on the whole, take a step back in terms of the amount of cash and cap we were spending. And so that was planned all along. And still, I think despite those kinds of challenges we were able to have, what I believe, is a really productive offseason. And I'm really excited with where our team's at.”

Let's summarize what Lynch really said:

1. The 49ers may not have had a great offseason, but they did what they wanted to.

2. What they wanted to do was improve special teams and decrease spending because they spent a lot the past five years and needed to dial that back.

What an odd year to spend less, considering they just went to the NFC Championship. You'd think they'd want to spend more this year and actually win the Super Bowl.

Stepping back and looking at like the last 4 years... the FO has made some pretty questionable moves. Lynch can claim they "did what they wanted to do", but without context of what other teams are doing as well, and how the landscape may have shifted from the time you made that plan to today, is a pretty big deal. Seems like the FO makes some questionable calls, then the coaching staff and players covers up for it on game day. So we all look back and say "Lynch built a team that's made it to the SB and another NFC championship"... but if we're being honest, it isn't the FO maneuvers that got us there - in fact, they probably hamstrung us in some cases.

Not to say everything they do is wrong, but when timing plays a role, they seem to be snake-bitten.

 

[deep9er]

Stepping back and looking at like the last 4 years... the FO has made some pretty questionable moves. Lynch can claim they "did what they wanted to do", but without context of what other teams are doing as well, and how the landscape may have shifted from the time you made that plan to today, is a pretty big deal. Seems like the FO makes some questionable calls, then the coaching staff and players covers up for it on game day. So we all look back and say "Lynch built a team that's made it to the SB and another NFC championship"... but if we're being honest, it isn't the FO maneuvers that got us there - in fact, they probably hamstrung us in some cases.

Not to say everything they do is wrong, but when timing plays a role, they seem to be snake-bitten.

Lynch said this regarding this off-season, which i think is fair.

Regarding the entire time in SF, remember they inherited a pretty bad team in 2017. For drafting, they had issues with the higher picks, something you wouldn't expect from any regime. No team hits on all their draft picks, but they missed too many of the higher ones.

For Free Agents, we've had some poor luck with Richberg, Garcon, McKinnon, Ford, Verett, etc.. Difficult to fault them for injury AFTER the signings, but they should've been more careful signing previously injured FAs.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Jets were reportedly offering the Niners the 10th and a 2nd rd pick swap for Deebo. Niners passed.

 

[deep9er]

Jets were reportedly offering the Niners the 10th and a 2nd rd pick swap for Deebo. Niners passed.

This isn't too bad an offer because the swap is a big move up. For me i would've tried to trade down from 10th to attain a high pick in 2023. Seeing what happened yesterday, highly unlikely.

With AJ Brown's contract now known, seems Deebo will use $25M/year as the starting point? Now it'll come down to the guarantee.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Now it's been reported that the Jets offer was Deebo and the Niner's 2nd for #10 and a 5. Um, no thanks. Not even close.

Someone else is reporting that the Lions were offering a 1 and a 3. And no, the #1 was not the 2nd overall pick, but probably 1.12 that the Lions got from Minnesota. Closer, but the Niners said no.

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

Now it's been reported that the Jets offer was Deebo and the Niner's 2nd for #10 and a 5. Um, no thanks. Not even close.

Someone else is reporting that the Lions were offering a 1 and a 3. And no, the #1 was not the 2nd overall pick, but probably 1.12 that the Lions got from Minnesota. Closer, but the Niners said no.

I thought I heard yesterday that the jets offer also required us to give up our 2nd round pick.... which would make it a definite "no thanks"

 

[Niner Outlaw]

I thought I heard yesterday that the jets offer also required us to give up our 2nd round pick.... which would make it a definite "no thanks"

Yea, that's what I said. "Jets offer was Deebo and the Niner's 2nd for [the Jets] #10 and a 5."

 

[Dean_Youngblood]

Yea, that's what I said. "Jets offer was Deebo and the Niner's 2nd for [the Jets] #10 and a 5."

Totally missed the Niner's "2nd" in your original post... my bad!

 

[deep9er]

Now it's been reported that the Jets offer was Deebo and the Niner's 2nd for #10 and a 5. Um, no thanks. Not even close.

Someone else is reporting that the Lions were offering a 1 and a 3. And no, the #1 was not the 2nd overall pick, but probably 1.12 that the Lions got from Minnesota. Closer, but the Niners said no.

Detroit had #32 and #66, then traded up to #12 for Jameson Williams. I'd bet they offered #32 and #66 for Deebo.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Detroit had #32 and #66, then traded up to #12 for Jameson Williams. I'd bet they offered #32 and #66 for Deebo.

If that's the case, that's an easy pass for the Niners. If they'd have offered their 2023 #1, I'd have probably done it.

 

[deep9er]

If that's the case, that's an easy pass for the Niners. If they'd have offered their 2023 #1, I'd have probably done it.

Just a 2023 1st rounder alone?