All things offseason

[Pattersonca65]

What Kelly is saying means crap because he knows he needs to back his boss. Trust me Kelly wants players. He has to play it low after what happen with the Eagles. Just like him saying he wants Kap if he stays. Of course you do, you have to say that so you dont throw Baalke under the bus.

LOL, I just now read that story. I was thinking the same thing. What a worthless story. What else is he going to say? He doesn't have roster control and he isn't going to come out and rip his new boss.

 

[purguy12]

Chip Kelly lauds 49ers' plan with free agency


“I think you just have to look at who fits and who’s the right fit for the organization. I don’t know if it’s let big money deals go or not go, it’s just what exactly are you looking for. Our guys do a great job of targeting what we want the San Francisco 49ers to be, and see how it works out from a contract standpoint.”

Kelly said there are a lot of elements to take into account when entering free agency, including how a player fits into the salary structure of the team.

“Are we going to take this player and pay him more than anybody on our team? And is that player worth more than anybody on our current team?” Kelly said. “You also have to kind of look at that.

“Some of the money that was being thrown around at the beginning, you got to be able to manage that. You got to pay some guy who’s never been to a Pro Bowl that’s going to make more than anybody on your roster. That’s a little bit difficult. There are a lot of things that get involved in some of these things.”

Deep you still dont get it. No one is saying pay 17 mill for Vernon or 17 mill malik . We are talking about player that could help. I agree with you cant pay a non pro bowler more then anyone on your team. You can still add good pieces with out going crazy.

Here are some player that could of helped.
1. C Mack at 9 mill. We upgrade 2 positions by signing him. Kilgore goes to guard.
2.CB S. Smith. 9.5 mill. We finally get a #1 CB. again it helps 2 positions because now Brock goes to #2 where he is better. Now we have a solid 1-2 punch at CB with Depth behind them.
3. Schwartz- 6.6 Mill for a RT not bad. Big Upgrade over Pears for not that much.
4.Boone- why not resign him for 6.7 mill. Not bad for a Top 10 Guard.
5. Jeff Allen- Little better guard then Boone at 7 mill.
6. Danny Trevathan- ILB. Upgrade over Hodges and Wilhoite for 6.1 mill.
7. Travis Benjamin- WR upgrade for only 6 mill.
8. Ben Jones- Center pick up and again you move Kilgore to Guard. double upgrade. 4.5 mill. we just sing the 68th guard out of 81 for 3.7 mill.

I can go on and on. Its not about the BIG moves its about the right moves.

 

[deep9er]

Deep you still dont get it. No one is saying pay 17 mill for Vernon or 17 mill malik . We are talking about player that could help. I agree with you cant pay a non pro bowler more then anyone on your team. You can still add good pieces with out going crazy.

Here are some player that could of helped.
1. C Mack at 9 mill. We upgrade 2 positions by signing him. Kilgore goes to guard.
2.CB S. Smith. 9.5 mill. We finally get a #1 CB. again it helps 2 positions because now Brock goes to #2 where he is better. Now we have a solid 1-2 punch at CB with Depth behind them.
3. Schwartz- 6.6 Mill for a RT not bad. Big Upgrade over Pears for not that much.
4.Boone- why not resign him for 6.7 mill. Not bad for a Top 10 Guard.
5. Jeff Allen- Little better guard then Boone at 7 mill.
6. Danny Trevathan- ILB. Upgrade over Hodges and Wilhoite for 6.1 mill.
7. Travis Benjamin- WR upgrade for only 6 mill.
8. Ben Jones- Center pick up and again you move Kilgore to Guard. double upgrade. 4.5 mill. we just sing the 68th guard out of 81 for 3.7 mill.

I can go on and on. Its not about the BIG moves its about the right moves.

It is debatable but IMO, Mack, Smith, Schwartz, Trevathan, and Benjamin are the 'first wave' FA's. 'First wave' meaning these guys commanded the highest free agent contracts. Also recall the article which says this is a WEAK FA class.

Boone didn't want to be in SF himself, so you shouldn't list someone who doesn't want to sign. This leads to some of these other players, maybe they didn't want to come to SF? If so, that isn't on Baalke cause he can't force people to come.

Don't know enough on Allen but isn't $7M high for an OG? Is he a Pro Bowl OG, cause this kind of money is close to what Iupati got. Don't know about Jones, maybe he was the type of player that fit your criteria?

I am not against signing FA's, even said ok to sign one of these guys listed. So what IS my position now? Since we haven't signed one of these top FA's, i'm ok with that. I am saying fine, we didn't overspend and we didn't burn our cap for the sake of burning it. I am not posting 25 rants every day asking why we haven't signed anyone which BTW is now wrong. We signed Beadles who will fill a need but didn't cost a ton. Teams don't let their Pro Bowl players free, unless they ask for the mint. So what do you expect we'd sign in free agency?

 

[poewelch84]

It is debatable but IMO, Mack, Smith, Schwartz, Trevathan, and Benjamin are the 'first wave' FA's. 'First wave' meaning these guys commanded the highest free agent contracts. Also recall the article which says this is a WEAK FA class.

Boone didn't want to be in SF himself, so you shouldn't list someone who doesn't want to sign. This leads to some of these other players, maybe they didn't want to come to SF? If so, that isn't on Baalke cause he can't force people to come.

Don't know enough on Allen but isn't $7M high for an OG? Is he a Pro Bowl OG, cause this kind of money is close to what Iupati got. Don't know about Jones, maybe he was the type of player that fit your criteria?

I am not against signing FA's, even said ok to sign one of these guys listed. So what IS my position now? Since we haven't signed one of these top FA's, i'm ok with that. I am saying fine, we didn't overspend and we didn't burn our cap for the sake of burning it. I am not posting 25 rants every day asking why we haven't signed anyone which BTW is now wrong. We signed Beadles who will fill a need but didn't cost a ton. Teams don't let their Pro Bowl players free, unless they ask for the mint. So what do you expect we'd sign in free agency?

None of those guys are getting top dollar I believe, why the hell would you only sign nobodies in Free Agency and not go after an established player. I would have paid 9 or 10 million for Mack or the CB Smith but that would have meant no compensation picks next year so that will never happen. Oh wait Baalke can't draft well either so the comp picks are nothing but a waste because the team won't draft a good player with them.

 

[purguy12]

It is debatable but IMO, Mack, Smith, Schwartz, Trevathan, and Benjamin are the 'first wave' FA's. 'First wave' meaning these guys commanded the highest free agent contracts. Also recall the article which says this is a WEAK FA class.

Boone didn't want to be in SF himself, so you shouldn't list someone who doesn't want to sign. This leads to some of these other players, maybe they didn't want to come to SF? If so, that isn't on Baalke cause he can't force people to come.

Don't know enough on Allen but isn't $7M high for an OG? Is he a Pro Bowl OG, cause this kind of money is close to what Iupati got. Don't know about Jones, maybe he was the type of player that fit your criteria?

I am not against signing FA's, even said ok to sign one of these guys listed. So what IS my position now? Since we haven't signed one of these top FA's, i'm ok with that. I am saying fine, we didn't overspend and we didn't burn our cap for the sake of burning it. I am not posting 25 rants every day asking why we haven't signed anyone which BTW is now wrong. We signed Beadles who will fill a need but didn't cost a ton. Teams don't let their Pro Bowl players free, unless they ask for the mint. So what do you expect we'd sign in free agency?

Respond to your top response. Yes we dont know. We also dont know if the front office went after these players. So overall it falls on baalke. Money talks no matter what.

Again these are just samples. Goes back to signing players that can help. Im also saying im ok with not burning cap but signing 1 or 2 of these guys wouldnt burn cap. We would still be in the 35-45 mill range. Now we have too many holes that the Draft cant help us on. When you draft you hope 1-2 becomes a starter right away(last year we had none.) Then you hope to find 1-2 guys for depth, and then you hope in the future 1-2 become starters. Again this is based on a bad team. A top team they are looking for maybe 1 starter and 1-2 future starters and 1-2 players for depth.

This draft we are not going to get 4-5 true starters out of the gate. We have too many holes. Thats why FA is important. The other argument is we have trading options and we didnt do that. We saw a couple teams improve themselves because of this.

4 ways to improve your team
1-Players improving
2-Draft
3-FA
4-Trade

Right now we are depending too much on Draft and Improvements. It didnt work last year.

 

[purguy12]

None of those guys are getting top dollar I believe, why the hell would you only sign nobodies in Free Agency and not go after an established player. I would have paid 9 or 10 million for Mack or the CB Smith but that would have meant no compensation picks next year so that will never happen. Oh wait Baalke can't draft well either so the comp picks are nothing but a waste because the team won't draft a good player with them.

Plus those 2 signings would also help 2 other positions. Kilgore to guard is an up grade and Brock to #2 CB. So signing 2 guys helped 4 positions. We signed 2 guys for Depth and maybe 1 becomes a starter due to lack of talent at that position.

 

[deep9er]

Respond to your top response. Yes we dont know. We also dont know if the front office went after these players. So overall it falls on baalke. Money talks no matter what.

Again these are just samples. Goes back to signing players that can help. Im also saying im ok with not burning cap but signing 1 or 2 of these guys wouldnt burn cap. We would still be in the 35-45 mill range. Now we have too many holes that the Draft cant help us on. When you draft you hope 1-2 becomes a starter right away(last year we had none.) Then you hope to find 1-2 guys for depth, and then you hope in the future 1-2 become starters. Again this is based on a bad team. A top team they are looking for maybe 1 starter and 1-2 future starters and 1-2 players for depth.

This draft we are not going to get 4-5 true starters out of the gate. We have too many holes. Thats why FA is important. The other argument is we have trading options and we didnt do that. We saw a couple teams improve themselves because of this.

4 ways to improve your team
1-Players improving
2-Draft
3-FA
4-Trade

Right now we are depending too much on Draft and Improvements. It didnt work last year.

as i just posted on the other thread, free agents ARE coming. Beadles isn't the last one.

 

[Pattersonca65]

as i just posted on the other thread, free agents ARE coming. Beadles isn't the last one.

At this point. I don't know that there is anything left out there that would improve this team. I think all that is left are bench/role, or over-the-hill players

 

[purguy12]

as i just posted on the other thread, free agents ARE coming. Beadles isn't the last one.

Yes but not FA that can help. Lets Hope some good FA get cut so then maybe we have a chance with them.

Question: Would you go after Clady from the Broncos. He is better then Okung and Cheaper but coming off ACL injury. I think it would depend on AD unless AD moves to Guard and then we trade for Clady. Just a question.

 

[poewelch84]

as i just posted on the other thread, free agents ARE coming. Beadles isn't the last one.

The kind of moves the Niners made when they were actually winning championships signing Ken Norton Jr and trading for Deon Sanders. The kind of moves Baalke makes trade for Devers????, sign Pears???, sign a practice squad QB, sign a washed up OG that might return to form in Kelly's system. If you can't see the difference between those types of moves then no one can help you. Why waste the cap on purchasing scrap metal?

 

[deep9er]

The kind of moves the Niners made when they were actually winning championships signing Ken Norton Jr and trading for Deon Sanders. The kind of moves Baalke makes trade for Devers????, sign Pears???, sign a practice squad QB, sign a washed up OG that might return to form in Kelly's system. If you can't see the difference between those types of moves then no one can help you. Why waste the cap on purchasing scrap metal?

the difference is first having a good team from drafting, what you're describing is building from free agency. I know you listed a trade, but really what you're asking for is building from free agency. We already had a good team by the time these guys were added.

AFTER you've gotten enough successful draft picks, then you add the top FA's like Deion Sanders. You do this to keep the window open, those moves weren't to build a SB team. Currently, the 49ers don't have enough talent from recent drafts.

the FA's you sign today aren't intended to be the main starters 2-3 years, when this team becomes a contender. They are intended to bridge the gap while you add these next draft classes. the next few draft classes will be the key starters and role players.

 

[deep9er]

Yes but not FA that can help. Lets Hope some good FA get cut so then maybe we have a chance with them.

Question: Would you go after Clady from the Broncos. He is better then Okung and Cheaper but coming off ACL injury. I think it would depend on AD unless AD moves to Guard and then we trade for Clady. Just a question.

repeated....

the FA's you sign today aren't intended to be the main starters 2-3 years, when this team becomes a contender. They are intended to bridge the gap while you add these next draft classes. the next few draft classes will be the key starters and role players.

Beadles is certainly someone who will help this season.

I would certainly consider Clady, check his medical and let him work out. But at best, i would view him as someone bridging the gap.

 

[Pattersonca65]

repeated....

the FA's you sign today aren't intended to be the main starters 2-3 years, when this team becomes a contender. They are intended to bridge the gap while you add these next draft classes. the next few draft classes will be the key starters and role players.

Beadles is certainly someone who will help this season.

I would certainly consider Clady, check his medical and let him work out. But at best, i would view him as someone bridging the gap.

We hope so anyway. He graded almost as badly as Pears last season. We are hoping that was due to injury and the wrong blocking scheme for him.

 

[purguy12]

Either way its a mess. Lets just hope for a good draft.

 

[deep9er]

http://www.************.com/news/92633-ian-williams-status-2016-season-opener-question/

Ian Williams’ surgery prompts 49ers to re-do deal, puts Week 1 availability in doubt

Don't think the issue is if he'll start the season, but whether he'll get injured again? You'd think the odds favor he will?

Wasn't the recent serious injury, due to a 'cut' block?

 

[purguy12]

SMH between this and the Kap trade it just keeps getting ugly.

 

[poewelch84]

the difference is first having a good team from drafting, what you're describing is building from free agency. I know you listed a trade, but really what you're asking for is building from free agency. We already had a good team by the time these guys were added.

AFTER you've gotten enough successful draft picks, then you add the top FA's like Deion Sanders. You do this to keep the window open, those moves weren't to build a SB team. Currently, the 49ers don't have enough talent from recent drafts.

the FA's you sign today aren't intended to be the main starters 2-3 years, when this team becomes a contender. They are intended to bridge the gap while you add these next draft classes. the next few draft classes will be the key starters and role players.

You and I will have to agree to disagree, like I've said before you don't understand at all what I'm talking about which is fine.

 

[purguy12]

49ers made a Big move yesterday. They signed one of the Top WR in the CFL, LOL Eric Rodgers.

This is what it has comes down to.

 

[poewelch84]

49ers made a Big move yesterday. They signed one of the Top WR in the CFL, LOL Eric Rodgers.

This is what it has comes down to.

Deep didn't say where the free agents would come from only that they would sign people. They would be better off to sign undrafted rookies than useless pieces left on the weak FA market.

 

[poewelch84]

repeated....

the FA's you sign today aren't intended to be the main starters 2-3 years, when this team becomes a contender. They are intended to bridge the gap while you add these next draft classes. the next few draft classes will be the key starters and role players.

Beadles is certainly someone who will help this season.

I would certainly consider Clady, check his medical and let him work out. But at best, i would view him as someone bridging the gap.

Did you type this with a straight face, you can't know that based off of how he played last year or are you basing it off of how he played 3 or 4 years ago which is foolish in my opinion. He may not be helpful at all.