Alex better show something against the Raiders

[Crimsoncrew]

I just don't understand why you forced Shaun Hill and Troy Smith into the discussion. The only reason I can think of is to make Alex Smith look better. I made what I thought was a pretty indisputable statement about Alex Smith's lack of pocket presence and that not only was the OL responsible for the sacks/hurries, and you somehow injected Hill and T. Smith into the debate.

What do you want me to say, that Alex's pocket presence is better than both Hill's and Troy's? Ok fine, if it makes you feel better about Alex Smith I can say it all day.

Have you seen anyone else play QB for the Niners in the past two years? That's one basis for comparison for Smith. It's obviously not a high bar. But Hill, despite getting rid of the ball fairly quickly most of the time and appearing to have decent pocket presence (he took one fewer sack this year despite attempting roughly 260 more passes behind a Lions OL that isn't exactly special), took a lot of sacks behind our OL. I think that's relevant to the discussion. Troy Smith is somewhat less relevant as his pocket presence was absolutely atrocious.

 

[clyde_carbon]

-We(49er fans) saw first hand that JTO is indeed HORRIBLE SHIT.

-I never watched or followed Harrington, so I don't have an opinion on him(except for being on the cover of NCAA 03). The moment he was drafted by the Lions, his career was over.

-David Carr, a atrocious O-line ruined his career. His "horrible" because of it.

-Jimmy Clausen, FUCK HIM. He went to Oaks Christian.

Excellent arguments. You should be an attorney.

We, 49ers fans, also saw how horrible Alex Smith has been the last seven seasons. Horribly inconsistent, piss-poor pocket presence, atrocious underneath accuracy, absolutely no semblance of creativity or ad lib ability, can't throw on the run. These things have more to do with Alex Smith than the situation or coaching.

Dude sucks. I don't know why it's so hard for you to accept that.

 

[SY8goat]

Well, you're operating under the assumption that any QB that starts as a rookie will turn into Alex Smith part deux. I disagree, now more than ever you're seeing young QBs start early, and I think Kap will have enough talent around him to promote, not stagnate, his development.

Though, you don't want him to develop bad habits behind an under-performing O-line.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Though, you don't want him to develop bad habits behind an under-performing O-line.

What if he develops good habits? Or is that unfathomable?

 

[SY8goat]

What if he develops good habits? Or is that unfathomable?

Has there ever been a QB, who came from a gimmick offense and had immediate success?

Kap isn't stafford, chances are he will develop poor habits and rely on his legs more than his arm.

 

[ViperVisor]

I have seen 300 more throws from Peyton Manning, cause I live in Indy, the past 3 years than Alex Smith has in his career.

You are inventing more badness than you likely have actual memory of to make a point.

60% and more TD than INT the last 2 seasons. Not good but the positives from Smith have some weight.

 

[I_am_1z]

can't wait to see our defense!

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I don't disagree that there are a lot of QB's that can start day one. But I'll say it again, Kaep is not a QB who should start day one.

Alex Smith and Kaep are different animals and have different issues in their development. But both are QB's that need(ed) time to develop.

If we rush him out there too fast, he'll end up struggling with different issues that will hinder his development by picking up bad habits that will be harder to break than if he can learn on the bench. I don't think Kaep will end up as bad as AS because he can improve. But we're not going to maximize him as a QB if we throw him out there in this year that included a lockout. That's just my stance on it.

 

[mysfit]

Brilliant, so let's turn Kaep into Alex Smith. That is a brilliant long term strategy to throw a QB out way before he's ready and risk ruining his confidence and mechanics. News flash: we're going to struggle this year anyway, so why would we take a chance on destroying a potential franchise QB?

Kap is not a potential franchise QB.

As I said, he's a stop gap.

We know what Smith can do; toss INT's like bird feed.

Niners need some momentum and Kap is our best shot.

 

[mysfit]

Kap is not the future, Smith is not the present.

The niners do not have their franchise QB. They need to find him in the next draft or two.

In the meantime they need to try and figure out how to win. Smith ain't it. Kap at least can run and under Harbaugh he can learn to NOT lose the game with poor decision making skill. He is not the future so stop worrying about 'ruining' him. He's a stop gap. He's our best chance to win now in a weak division and at least get to the post season.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Has there ever been a QB, who came from a gimmick offense and had immediate success?

Kap isn't stafford, chances are he will develop poor habits and rely on his legs more than his arm.

What's "immediate success", and why is it apart of this conversation? I'm not expecting Prime to have immediate success, but I am expecting him to develop more actually playing the game rather than sitting on the bench watching disaster behind Center.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I don't disagree that there are a lot of QB's that can start day one. But I'll say it again, Kaep is not a QB who should start day one.

Alex Smith and Kaep are different animals and have different issues in their development. But both are QB's that need(ed) time to develop.

If we rush him out there too fast, he'll end up struggling with different issues that will hinder his development by picking up bad habits that will be harder to break than if he can learn on the bench. I don't think Kaep will end up as bad as AS because he can improve. But we're not going to maximize him as a QB if we throw him out there in this year that included a lockout. That's just my stance on it.

Why not?

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I wouldn't start him until he is completely comfortable working through his progressions with all the different looks that defenses will throw at him. I fully anticipate he will struggle in this aspect of the game. If he is forced to learn on the job this year it will hurt him, and possibly set him back big time. I wouldn't take that chance, unless we're looking to draft a first round QB next year to be the future.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I wouldn't start him until he is completely comfortable working through his progressions with all the different looks that defenses will throw at him. I fully anticipate he will struggle in this aspect of the game. If he is forced to learn on the job this year it will hurt him, and possibly set him back big time. I wouldn't take that chance, unless we're looking to draft a first round QB next year to be the future.

So how in the world are we supposed know if he's capable of growing through progressions comfortably if you're gonna refuse to play him? And don't say practice, because it's completely different in real game-time situation.

 

[LifeLong9ersFan]

Kap is not a potential franchise QB.

As I said, he's a stop gap.

We know what Smith can do; toss INT's like bird feed.

Niners need some momentum and Kap is our best shot.

Why the hate for Kap? What exactly have you seen that indicates he has no potential whatsoever to be a franchise QB?

 

[SY8goat]

What's "immediate success", and why is it apart of this conversation? I'm not expecting Prime to have immediate success, but I am expecting him to develop more actually playing the game rather than sitting on the bench watching disaster behind Center.

Poor choice of words, I mean, it actually helped those types of QB playing in front of a poor o-line?

As an example, Alex smith, they knew from the moment they drafted him, that he would need a substantial amount of work to become a serviceable QB. Yet, they still (and draft his ass#1) play him when he wasn't ready to be successful QB behind a shit o-line. They knew he was going to take time to develop, but they throw him to lions!

They should play Kap if Smith stinks it up and as long the o-line plays well(as it did today).

 

[LifeLong9ersFan]

Poor choice of words, I mean, it actually helped those types of QB playing in front of a poor o-line?

As an example, Alex smith, they knew from the moment they drafted him, that he would need a substantial amount of work to become a serviceable QB. Yet, they still (and draft his ass#1) play him when he wasn't ready to be successful QB behind a shit o-line. They knew he was going to take time to develop, but they throw him to lions!

They should play Kap if Smith stinks it up and as long the o-line plays well(as it did today).

Do you believe he is a good QB if he sits his rookie year? And by your standard he would never have seen the field because we switched coaches/coordinators every year so he would never have gotten a chance to be comfortable with anything. I'm not saying I disagree on letting kap rest but each case is unique and some guys just play better by playing. We would have had this same discussion about Bradford and needing time from a wacky offense when he came out

 

[EaseUrStorm]

The progressions need to be learned by watching extensive film of week in and week out to understand specifically what the different defenses are doing, and how to beat them. And learning the offense inside and out so that he can grasp the progressions mentally so beating the defenses becomes second nature.

Then he also need time to become comfortable technically in the timing aspects of the offense. All of this together will take some time. He has evident raw talent, but I worry throwing him out there too soon will be detrimental. If he's allowed to develop piece by piece I think he could become a very good QB. But if he's struggling in games and trying to correct too many things as far as technique, mastering the timing, and understanding the playbook in depth, I think that could hurt him. Give him time and he can correct little things when he's ready instead of having to question himself and start from scratch every week.

 

[LifeLong9ersFan]

The progressions need to be learned by watching extensive film of week in and week out to understand specifically what the different defenses are doing, and how to beat them. And learning the offense inside and out so that he can grasp the progressions mentally so beating the defenses becomes second nature.

Then he also need time to become comfortable technically in the timing aspects of the offense. All of this together will take some time. He has evident raw talent, but I worry throwing him out there too soon will be detrimental. If he's allowed to develop piece by piece I think he could become a very good QB. But if he's struggling in games and trying to correct too many things as far as technique, mastering the timing, and understanding the playbook in depth, I think that could hurt him. Give him time and he can correct little things when he's ready instead of having to question himself and start from scratch every week.

Reading defenses comes with coaching and experience, that's a given and I agree with the first part of your statement. The second part though, you cannot learn to react from the pine. You can only learn how to react at the nfl level, against that speed, by playing against it. You don't get that in practice against the second unit, you get it against the same caliber guys you will see on Sunday in a game situation.

I'm with you, I think young qb's need time but if he is better in a one on one battle with Smith he starts for me. This isn't 2005, we have the offensive talent around a young QB to not make him do everything by himself and a good enough defense to keep us in games as well (hopefully).

 

[threelittleturds]

Do you believe he is a good QB if he sits his rookie year? And by your standard he would never have seen the field because we switched coaches/coordinators every year so he would never have gotten a chance to be comfortable with anything. I'm not saying I disagree on letting kap rest but each case is unique and some guys just play better by playing. We would have had this same discussion about Bradford and needing time from a wacky offense when he came out

The only thing that would have made Alex Smith even fairly successful, would be if it were him who was drafted by the Packers. I don't think he'd be on the same level as Rodgers by any means. I'm just saying that it's pretty obvious that Alex Smith needs the perfect situation to succeed, and Rodgers situation was pretty darn perfect to develop a QB who needed a lot of work to transition in the NFL.

I mean, let's not forget that 2005's QB class was incredibly weak. I remember everyone in the media, the draft gurus, even former QBs; were talking about how unfortunate it was that the 49ers needed a QB, and there wasn't anyone to get excited about. The only guy everyone was behind, was Leinart, and he stayed at USC just to avoid the 9ers.