Albert Pujols tops list of MLB's biggest albatrosses

[Omar 382]

The evolution of hockey in this thread:

"I'd take 12 of Pujols' contracts over Ricky Nolasco"

(I point out he's wrong)

"Ricky Nolasco sucks ass!!!"

(I agree, but remind him that we're not comparing production solely. We're comparing production relative to contracts)

"Yeah, well Nolasco is complete dead weight so his contract is worse. Are you saying that Nolasco is good???"

(I agree that Nolasco sucks, but he also has a slim upside based on his FIP numbers)

"FIP numbers and all projections are bullshit in predicting a player's success!!!"

(I use Zach Greinke as an example of someone who underperformed his FIP numbers and then finally put it all together)

"OMG YOU JUST COMPARED RICKY NOLASCO TO ZACH GREINKE!!!!!"

( )

"YOU THINK CANO'S CONTRACT IS GOOD"

(I never said it was good, just that it was better than Pujols')

"YOUR AVATAR IS OMAR LITTLE AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE HIM IN YOUR TOP 5 FAVORITE TV CHARACTERS!!!!"

 

[Omar 382]

Thing is with the Twins is Nolasco will be gone, free of his suckiness. The Angels could very possibly have a sub 2 WAR player for 20M+ AAV for the remainder of his contract. Add Hamilton in there, and the lost opportunity cost for the Angels is absolutely incredible... all of it for an ALDS they got swept in.

Why did Hockey like this post? It invalidates his entire argument lol

 

[Omar 382]

Ricky Nolasco and Zack Greinke have both historically been players whose peripheral stats (FIP, K%, WAR, etc) have outperformed their traditional stats (Ws, ERA, etc). That's nothing new, so in that respect, yes, it's fair to bring up Zack Greinke when evaluating Ricky Nolasco. Obviously it's not apples to apples, and I don't think anyone would mean it that way (except you, as you seem to be trying to do).



Of course not, but we don't live in the past. If you're talking about a long-term deal (10 years!) then you need to take into account what that deal will look like in 10 years.



Yes you're wrong. They're not the same. Cano has been much better in his deal than Pujols has been in his.

I will say that they're both bad deals and I disagree with Omar on his original Cano point because I think Cano's contract is and will be an albatross for the Mariners.

What's hilarious about comparing Cano and Pujols, as you are, is that you're being a huge hypocrite in the stances you've taken. Cano's deal is fine if you don't look at the future of it. It's only in the projected regression due to his age where Cano's deal becomes an albatross. So you say "don't look at projections" and then you say that "Cano has a bad deal, too."

Can't have it both ways, buddy.


So is that a yes? The Nolasco contract is worse than the Pujols contract?

I never said Cano's contract was good. All I said was I wouldn't quite put it into the "albatross" section when you consider he could be a 4 win player for the next couple of years. So not "albatross" but certainly bad.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

The evolution of hockey in this thread:

"I'd take 12 of Pujols' contracts over Ricky Nolasco"

(I point out he's wrong)

"Ricky Nolasco sucks ass!!!"

(I agree, but remind him that we're not comparing production solely. We're comparing production relative to contracts)

"Yeah, well Nolasco is complete dead weight so his contract is worse. Are you saying that Nolasco is good???"

(I agree that Nolasco sucks, but he also has a slim upside based on his FIP numbers)

"FIP numbers and all projections are bullshit in predicting a player's success!!!"

(I use Zach Greinke as an example of someone who underperformed his FIP numbers and then finally put it all together)

"OMG YOU JUST COMPARED RICKY NOLASCO TO ZACH GREINKE!!!!!"

(View attachment 92942 )

"YOU THINK CANO'S CONTRACT IS GOOD"

(I never said it was good, just that it was better than Pujols')

"YOUR AVATAR IS OMAR LITTLE AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE HIM IN YOUR TOP 5 FAVORITE TV CHARACTERS!!!!"

Now whose putting words in mouths lol.

Your "projections" we're shut down by moose. You tried to project for a guy whose numbers didn't support your Cy young proof for years. Nolasco has been what he is and it hasn't changed.

You said Canos wasn't a bad contract now. Don't lie. It is. Brian fucking Dozier and God forbid I mention Altuve or Kipnis.

Like I said many times. I just kept staring Nolasco was bad. You have some scorched earth campaign vs Pujols. And you defend another contract and use god awful supportive examples.

Still geeking at the Kole Calhoun example. Replacing a starter with a starter lol.

Still bitter about your name ehh?? It's ok. Go crack some gay jokes you'll feel better.

 

[cezero]

The thing I don't understand is this.

Hockey seems to always be going on. Like year round. It seems like they just gave out the Stanley Dish or whatever it's called, and now they're talking about it again.

Thanks.

 

[Villain]

Wrong about what?

I'm not going to draw pictures for you. Argue the points of merit.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I'm not going to draw pictures for you. Argue the points of merit.

I agreed with what you said. And said Pujols contract is worse than Canos. So you should probably try some other method of exhibiting intelligence.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

The thing I don't understand is this.

Hockey seems to always be going on. Like year round. It seems like they just gave out the Stanley Dish or whatever it's called, and now they're talking about it again.

Thanks.

You didn't hear? It's now Americas sport and their favorite pastime. It's basically all ESPN talks about these days.

 

[Villain]

@mr.hockey4242 - All you want to do is play the strawman game and point fingers about who's putting what in your mouth.

The posts are still there. The ones where you went deep into saying how the Twins made a worse deal than the Angels (I even quoted them! I stopped at 5 but I bet I could keep going - I stopped at 5 because I figured it was enough. I honestly didn't keep reading. I don't know what post 6 says).

You have tried to dance around that and hide it with other noise, but that's just your thing. Fine. You're a time waster and you like to argue around the point instead of introducing facts and hard statements.

I'll make a few hard statements and you can go an tell me if I'm wrong or not.

1. The Albert Pujols' contract is worse for the Angels than the Nolasco deal for the Twins - and it's not even close.
2. The Mariners are overpaying (big time) for Robinson Cano, but to Cano's credit - he's doing a great job and if he keeps it up (he won't) then it won't be wasted money.
3. Zack Greinke and Ricky Nolasco are similar SABR darlings. Greinke is better. Arizona's Greinke deal is worse than Minnesota's Nolasco deal.
4. Ricky Nolasco's deal is bad, but it's not an egregious disaster. Yes, he's getting paid a lot of money to be a replacement-level player, but it's not THAT much money. So in that respect, his deal isn't an albatross and it doesn't merit a place in this discussion.
5. Ian Kennedy's deal with Kansas City is a gajillion times worse than Nolasco's deal.

Come at me, bro. 1 through 5.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

@mr.hockey4242 - All you want to do is play the strawman game and point fingers about who's putting what in your mouth.

The posts are still there. The ones where you went deep into saying how the Twins made a worse deal than the Angels (I even quoted them! I stopped at 5 but I bet I could keep going - I stopped at 5 because I figured it was enough. I honestly didn't keep reading. I don't know what post 6 says).

You have tried to dance around that and hide it with other noise, but that's just your thing. Fine. You're a time waster and you like to argue around the point instead of introducing facts and hard statements.

I'll make a few hard statements and you can go an tell me if I'm wrong or not.

1. The Albert Pujols' contract is worse for the Angels than the Nolasco deal for the Twins - and it's not even close.
2. The Mariners are overpaying (big time) for Robinson Cano, but to Cano's credit - he's doing a great job and if he keeps it up (he won't) then it won't be wasted money.
3. Zack Greinke and Ricky Nolasco are similar SABR darlings. Greinke is better. Arizona's Greinke deal is worse than Minnesota's Nolasco deal.
4. Ricky Nolasco's deal is bad, but it's not an egregious disaster. Yes, he's getting paid a lot of money to be a replacement-level player, but it's not THAT much money. So in that respect, his deal isn't an albatross and it doesn't merit a place in this discussion. It's a bad deal but it's not the worst.
5. Ian Kennedy's deal with Kansas City is a gajillion times worse than Nolasco's deal.

Come at ,bro. 1 through 5.

You said I don't use facts and you posted a bunch of opinions.

Actually all that I have said regarding points has been fact based.

You can replace Cano with a cheaper and similar player. Fact. Nolascos numbers have been atrocious. Fact. Omar said that you could try and trade him and we already tried that. Fact. Cano is doing just what Albert did through two years. Fact.

You posted fucking WAR and left it at that. That's the lone stat used? When is Miggys MVP heading over to my man Trout?

Nolasco isn't even replacement level. Unless your into that get tossed around like a rag doll sort of things.

Only thing you quoted were assumptions you inferred lol. Again no facts.

Grienke is not similar to Nolasco AT ALL again, the stats were provided by Moose. At some point the projections stop and it becomes the norm. You gonna grasp this at anytime?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

And I'm still wondering why Ice Cube called me Felicia

 

[Omar 382]

You said I don't use facts and you posted a bunch of opinions.

Actually all that I have said regarding points has been fact based.

You can replace Cano with a cheaper and similar player. Fact. Nolascos numbers have been atrocious. Fact. Omar said that you could try and trade him and we already tried that. Fact. Cano is doing just what Albert did through two years. Fact.

You posted fucking WAR and left it at that. That's the lone stat used? When is Miggys MVP heading over to my man Trout?

Nolasco isn't even replacement level. Unless your into that get tossed around like a rag doll sort of things.

Only thing you quoted were assumptions you inferred lol. Again no facts.

Grienke is not similar to Nolasco AT ALL again, the stats were provided by Moose. At some point the projections stop and it becomes the norm. You gonna grasp this at anytime?

Yes, Trout was better in 2012 than Miggy. You want to be wrong on that too?

 

[Villain]

@mr.hockey4242 - It's okay to agree with me. It's okay to disagree with me (who knows? You might be right!) Just do one or the other. Agree or disagree. We can go from there.

1. The Albert Pujols' contract is worse for the Angels than the Nolasco deal for the Twins - and it's not even close.

2. The Mariners are overpaying (big time) for Robinson Cano, but to Cano's credit - he's doing a great job and if he keeps it up (he won't) then it won't be wasted money.

3. Zack Greinke and Ricky Nolasco are similar SABR darlings. Greinke is better. Arizona's Greinke deal is worse than Minnesota's Nolasco deal.

4. Ricky Nolasco's deal is bad, but it's not an egregious disaster. Yes, he's getting paid a lot of money to be a replacement-level player, but it's not THAT much money. So in that respect, his deal isn't an albatross and it doesn't merit a place in this discussion.

5. Ian Kennedy's deal with Kansas City is a gajillion times worse than Nolasco's deal.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

@mr.hockey4242 - It's okay to agree with me. It's okay to disagree with me (who knows? You might be right!) Just do one or the other. Agree or disagree. We can go from there.

1. The Albert Pujols' contract is worse for the Angels than the Nolasco deal for the Twins - and it's not even close.

2. The Mariners are overpaying (big time) for Robinson Cano, but to Cano's credit - he's doing a great job and if he keeps it up (he won't) then it won't be wasted money.

3. Zack Greinke and Ricky Nolasco are similar SABR darlings. Greinke is better. Arizona's Greinke deal is worse than Minnesota's Nolasco deal.

4. Ricky Nolasco's deal is bad, but it's not an egregious disaster. Yes, he's getting paid a lot of money to be a replacement-level player, but it's not THAT much money. So in that respect, his deal isn't an albatross and it doesn't merit a place in this discussion.

5. Ian Kennedy's deal with Kansas City is a gajillion times worse than Nolasco's deal.

1. I answered this 4 hours ago when you begged. It's going to end up over the long haul worse. But at least he's contributing like I said right from the get go. Agree.

2. Agree. Although wouldn't say great job I'd say he's doing nicely but it's very comparable to what Albert did. He's just a few years younger so won't be as old at the end. Which I also agreed makes his not as bad.

3. I'm simply never going to agree on this. Except the part about his deal. I actually think Greinke is overrated anyways

4. Disagree. He's not a replacement level player. If you are so bad it's better you just stay hurt, it's always an awful contract if it's over 10 mil annually.

5. Agreed seeing as it's more money for a still shitty pitcher. But he's considerably better than Ricky. If forced to have his for or Nolascos full deals. I'd roll the dice.

But like I keep saying everyone is overpaid. How many studs have good deals for the long term and are over 30? If these contracts are not holding you down from buying more players I'd rather see what Cano or Albert can do for me. Then Ricky Nolasco. The Joe Mauer deal never bugged me, we had to pay him, we had to take the chance. Under no fucking circumstances did we have to randomly restructure Phil Hughes deal and give him more money and more years.

And can I please know why I'm Felicia and why it's insulting

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Yes, Trout was better in 2012 than Miggy. You want to be wrong on that too?

Well considering I had Trout winning.

And Cabrera actually won(the only part that is a fact)

I see no way I can possibly be wrong in this situation. Sorry to disappoint.

 

[Villain]

And can I please know why I'm Felicia and why it's insulting

The movie is over 20 years old.

 

[Villain]

Fun fact: Felicia's son is the starting QB for the U. Brad Kaaya Profile

 

[mr.hockey4242]

View attachment 93001

The movie is over 20 years old.

I lol I haven't seen Friday in forever didn't even remember that.

And apparently the saying is being used by teenage girls these days according to the old Internet lol

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Am I the only one who has faith Ian Kennedy's HR/FB% normalizes and is a useful starter while the Royals window with the current core is still open?

 

[SJ76]

So for the record. You would not want 40 homers and 95 RBI in your lineup?

And are ok with paying for 2 years not even 200 innings and a era of 5.50?

Just let me be clear

Omar is a stat geek and a waterboy. Doubt he even made to RF as a kid growing up. He thinks Pujols had an awful year last year and he sucks.