AL Central Discussion

[broncosmitty]

Dylan Cease with a no hitter in the 5th.

With 7 walks.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Hoping Buxton does not return.

This lineup is so much more versatile being able to utilize the DH differently each game and get guys reps.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I mean all considering Guardians are done

but fuck man......Gavin Williams 7 innings...0 runs...1hit......12 k's vs. the Blue Jays who are still trying for a playoff spot.

Williams and Bibee really are gonna be good pitchers for at least the next 4-5 years after this one for the Guards. They just develop pitching which is why they can compete on a low payroll.

This just is not the year.

Hope they let Rocchio play every day. He is the future at SS. Bo Naylor, Rocchio, Kwan, Gimenez are all building blocks for the future to hit around Naylor and Jose.

Desperately need a power hitting corner outfielder. Desperately.

Next year has a lot of reason for optimism.

C. Bo Naylor- 1st year
1B. Manzardo
2B. Gimenez
3B. Ramirez
SS. Rocchio
LF. Kwan
CF. ?
RF. ?
DH. Naylor

SP. Bieber
SP. McKenzie
SP. Williams
SP. Bibee
SP. Allen/Quintrell/Cantillo

Outfield needs some help--- I would suggest moving Kwan to center and doing something in the corners. Options: Straw, Gonzalez, Valera, trade/free agent

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Lewis back tonight on rehab. Him and Lee will be playing together for the first time ever.

Going to be very interesting to see how we manage the roster here soon as Lewis comes back first off all. Then if/when AK and Buxton do as well.

The youth has forced the hand of the org.

Whats most exciting is so long as the FO(entirely possible) doesnt completely botch the off season with adding a bit of pitching and 1 righty bat. We should have absolute control of the division for a bit.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I think a big thing for the Twins assuming they do not collapse down the stretch and win the division.

They will not just host that short playoff series but they may have a legit ace going game 1(with Sonny no slouch game 2)

Some casuals may not know just how good Lopez has been. Will be interesting to see how he finishes. But his underlying advanced metrics are much more inline with guys competing for Cy Young consideration.

We know his first 4 starts of the year were fantastic. Then for 45 innings he ran into awful luck that compounded by him not pitching well enought to get out of jams and stop the big inning. Now hes been back to stellar for his last 70 innings.

And like I said, the advacned stuff support him being a true ace already. Results have caught up fast. Still long way to go though between now and a game 1.

 

[WiggyRuss]

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Guardians can gain one back today.

Twins punt anytime they dont face a lefty that belongs in AA.

We have GOT to stop starting these fucking shitty right handed dominant lineups. THEY DONT WORK because our right handed hitters we start instead of our lefties SUCK. You cant hand over games in september or definitely October by player weaker players.

In October you play back to back games. Are we ever going to catch Jeffers two games in a row???

 

[WiggyRuss]

Guardians can gain one back today.

Twins punt anytime they dont face a lefty that belongs in AA.

We have GOT to stop starting these fucking shitty right handed dominant lineups. THEY DONT WORK because our right handed hitters we start instead of our lefties SUCK. You cant hand over games in september or definitely October by player weaker players.

In October you play back to back games. Are we ever going to catch Jeffers two games in a row???

I wouldnt be too worried.

Guardians got 14 scoreless innings out of their rookie starters the last 2 games and just got a split out of it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I dont think I would trade Williams for any other starter in the AL Central considering talent/contract etc.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I dont think I would trade Williams for any other starter in the AL Central considering talent/contract etc.

I do think hes much more of a sure thing.

But im interested to see him and Bibee next year with the league having a full go around seeing them. Their FIPs point to good but fortunate pitching.
'
But Williams has been really good post all star and I think he could really sustain it.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Twins minor leaguers hitting tanks off Reds top prospect pitchers.

With the Solano injury tonight. Royce might have to just do one and done on his AAA rehab. 442 foot bomb.

Severino with his first AAA homer he raked in AA. Prato has been murdering AAA pitching. We dont go room for all this youth. Get the dead weight outta town.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I do think hes much more of a sure thing.

But im interested to see him and Bibee next year with the league having a full go around seeing them. Their FIPs point to good but fortunate pitching.
'
But Williams has been really good post all star and I think he could really sustain it.

I think Bibee has the higher floor, Williams has the higher ceiling

Bibee really reminds me of Bieber in a ton of ways. Williams I think has a little more variance.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I think Bibee has the higher floor, Williams has the higher ceiling

Bibee really reminds me of Bieber in a ton of ways. Williams I think has a little more variance.

I dont see a ton of Biebs in him, but that might be a good thing. Bieber might be cooked already. Bibee doesnt have quite the crazy stuff that Bieber had out the gates. But that could be a benfit cause hes more of a pitcher.

Its not a crazy variance on FIP for either guy. Basically a run off but both FIPs before tonight were sub 4 so its entirely possible both stay very consistent.

I honestly think Bieber probably gets traded this winter.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I dont see a ton of Biebs in him, but that might be a good thing. Bieber might be cooked already. Bibee doesnt have quite the crazy stuff that Bieber had out the gates. But that could be a benfit cause hes more of a pitcher.

Its not a crazy variance on FIP for either guy. Basically a run off but both FIPs before tonight were sub 4 so its entirely possible both stay very consistent.

I honestly think Bieber probably gets traded this winter.

I mean they are each like what 10 starts into their careers and both were top 25 prospects in the game at some point over the last year? yah- I think its fair to say that looking solid out of the gate is a + and hopefully bigger things coming.

I comepare Bieber and Bibee so much because they are both college right handers, both from the same college, both "pitchability" guys, both similar sized right handers, both saw large jumps in velocity once drafted

Guardians have a pretty consistent philosophy of finding guys that know how to pitch and then working with them to gain velocity.

Cantillo was a super young guy in the Clevinger trade that was basically at 87-88 mph- best pitch changeup.....a lot of pitchability....considered low ceiling.........somehow after a couple years in their system he touched 98 the other day.

Bibee and Bieber were both very similar- both command/control guys......both saw big velocity spikes....

guys like Espino and Williams are a lot different from the typical guy they draft and develop- but that makes more sense since they were pretty high picks.

 

[VikingFan2k2]

Twins minor leaguers hitting tanks off Reds top prospect pitchers.

With the Solano injury tonight. Royce might have to just do one and done on his AAA rehab. 442 foot bomb.

Severino with his first AAA homer he raked in AA. Prato has been murdering AAA pitching. We dont go room for all this youth. Get the dead weight outta town.

This organization can't admit when they made a mistake, that is what bothers me the most about them. Everyone makes mistakes, that is just life. But don't keep doubling down on them. They seem happy riding that Joey Gallo Train straight to hell.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

This organization can't admit when they made a mistake, that is what bothers me the most about them. Everyone makes mistakes, that is just life. But don't keep doubling down on them. They seem happy riding that Joey Gallo Train straight to hell.

I think whats crazy to me is that we just continually do the same thing even when it doesnt work. Like look how long it took to move Buxton down, they never even moved Correa(hopefully hes coming alive a bit). They didnt move Buxton off DH to free up roster flexibility. Holding on to Kepler out of stubbornness was the one move that really worked.

When we face a lefty, every single game like clockwork we bat righties simply cause they are righties. Im sick of bitching about it but they wont stop. It clearly doesnt work(joey wentz who belongs in AA doesnt count). Its so bad. Just for a couple game TRY batting your best bats even if they are lefties see if it works.

Willi Castro and his .340 slug as a righty should never, ever, ever, ever be your #5 hitter. Like even the Royals wouldnt do that. Its insane. Just try something different.

Look at the good offense. Sure, Julien/Wallner/AK aint stars yet(maybe ever). But do the Rangers move Seager out of the 2 hole cause its a lefty? Do the Braves change their lineup ever? Does Freddy Freeman bat 9 vs lefties??

How are guys supposed to learn to hit left handed pitching if they are not allowed to so that Kyle fucking Farmer can lunge at a ball 8 feet outside and roll it short stop.

And the catcher shit is fucking psyche ward level. Jeffers has not caught two games in a row all year. He is literally the best catcher in baseball.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Whats most exciting is so long as the FO(entirely possible) doesnt completely botch the off season with adding a bit of pitching and 1 righty bat. We should have absolute control of the division for a bit.

As long as the Guardians have Francona, Jose, and keep developing pitching, the Central will be theirs to lose next year--- especially if Gray leaves via free agency.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

As long as the Guardians have Francona, Jose, and keep developing pitching, the Central will be theirs to lose next year--- especially if Gray leaves via free agency.

Not a chance in hell. The Guardians have no offense and no way to get it.

Twins will still have at worst a healthy Ryan, Ober and Lopez. Money to spend on free agent pitching. And they will have an entire lineup of talent that has now gotten experience and control this year.

Also, even though I personally like Francona. Guardians fans are disgusted with his managing this year. Twins will be solidly favorites. With no pay roll constraints to add bullpen, starters and bat(depending on team options) if needed.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not a chance in hell. The Guardians have no offense and no way to get it.

Twins will still have at worst a healthy Ryan, Ober and Lopez. Money to spend on free agent pitching. And they will have an entire lineup of talent that has now gotten experience and control this year.

Also, even though I personally like Francona. Guardians fans are disgusted with his managing this year. Twins will be solidly favorites. With no pay roll constraints to add bullpen, starters and bat(depending on team options) if needed.

Jose is easily the best offensive player on either team.

Naylor is a good offensive player as well. Kwan is def. a good leadoff guy. While Gimenez is doubtful to be a 7+ WAR player again- I think he will settle in nicely somewhere between this year and last.

There are holes- but holes can be plugged- and they just jettisoned a ton of salary. Trading Bieber can bring a bat- who even if they trade- their rotation still figures to be something like McKenzie, Williams, Bibee, Quintrell, Allen, Cantillo, Espino, Beytonfield, etc.

not sure what the Twins rotation looks like next year after Lopez, Ryan and Ober- or where any depth comes from.

If Correa, Buxton and Vazquez keep playing like they are- thats about 60 million invested in some pretty significant mediocrity. While the Twins can spend more than the Guards- the Twins have more money in Correa guaranteed for next year than the Guards havei n their whole team--- esp. after trading Civale, Bell and Rosario who would have made prob about a combined 35M or so next year. Zunino off the books...maybe Bieber off the books....

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Jose is easily the best offensive player on either team.

Naylor is a good offensive player as well. Kwan is def. a good leadoff guy. While Gimenez is doubtful to be a 7+ WAR player again- I think he will settle in nicely somewhere between this year and last.

There are holes- but holes can be plugged- and they just jettisoned a ton of salary. Trading Bieber can bring a bat- who even if they trade- their rotation still figures to be something like McKenzie, Williams, Bibee, Quintrell, Allen, Cantillo, Espino, Beytonfield, etc.

not sure what the Twins rotation looks like next year after Lopez, Ryan and Ober- or where any depth comes from.

If Correa, Buxton and Vazquez keep playing like they are- thats about 60 million invested in some pretty significant mediocrity. While the Twins can spend more than the Guards- the Twins have more money in Correa guaranteed for next year than the Guards havei n their whole team--- esp. after trading Civale, Bell and Rosario who would have made prob about a combined 35M or so next year. Zunino off the books...maybe Bieber off the books....

Ramirez is the best offenseive guy on either team. Hes also like the oldest.

And one guy doesnt make anything we are seeing it now.

You say holes can be plugged but the Twins cant plug two rotation holes?? Thats literally how they ended up with Lopez, Gray and Maeda. THey have Paddock coming back already as depth. Varland if needed as another. They could easily go out and sign a Lorenzen type.

There is no worry about contracts. Really the only issue with the guys you mentioned is Buxton/Vazquez just clogging up roster space tbh.

Really the less the Twins spend in the off season on depth bats the better. Thats why their offense has begun to take off. They are letting Kirilloff/Julien/Wallner/Jeffers/Lewis all play and we have been leading the league in offense since the break. Lee will be up next year. Larnach either figures it out or is a trade piece for pitching. They have Severino/Prato/Williams all trying to find room.

Guardians have like 7 question marks in their lineup.