Active HOFers?

[calsnowskier]

And he was a better hitter and baserunner. So why doesn't he rank ahead?

Not even top 4, according to him

Remember, he ranks Fisk #4... BEHIND Yaddy…

 

[PackJason.]

And he was a better hitter and baserunner. So why doesn't he rank ahead?

He wasn't a better hitter. Not even close.

 

[PackJason.]

Not even top 4, according to him

Remember, he ranks Fisk #4... BEHIND Yaddy…

Yep. Fight me.

 

[navamind]

He wasn't a better hitter. Not even close.

Higher BA, OBP, SLG%, OPS+, more RBIs, home runs, more hits, more extra base hits than Molina, just to name a few stats.

But sure.

 

[PackJason.]

Higher BA, OBP, SLG%, OPS+, more RBIs, home runs, more hits, more extra base hits than Molina, just to name a few stats.

But sure.

Ok, I jumped the gun on that one. You're right.

 

[navamind]

Alright, now compare his offensive stats to his catching peers. You'll see that Molina is a good hitting catcher, but not remotely close to being one of the best hitting catchers. This is why I think he's merely a HOF catcher (if borderline) and not a top 5 one. I'm not saying he isn't one of the best of my lifetime.

 

[PackJason.]

Alright, now compare his offensive stats to his catching peers. You'll see that Molina is a good hitting catcher, but not remotely close to being one of the best hitting catchers. This is why I think he's merely a HOF catcher (if borderline) and not a top 5 one. I'm not saying he isn't one of the best of my lifetime.

Nah, he's one of the best defensive catchers I've ever seen. I'd bet 100 bucks that he's a 1st balloter.

 

[navamind]

Major League Leaderboards » 2021 » Catchers » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

Major League leaderboards for 2021 catchers with dashboard

www.fangraphs.com

FWIW, here's the all-time rankings for catchers by Fangraphs WAR (which puts a lot of weight into pitch framing). Molina ranks 10th all-time versus being outside the top 20, but he ranks two spots behind... Buster Posey. It does rate Molina as the best defender of all-time but the framing data only goes back a few years, so older catchers might be underrated. Posey rates as an excellent defender himself.

 

[navamind]

Nah, he's one of the best defensive catchers I've ever seen. I'd bet 100 bucks that he's a 1st balloter.

Did I say otherwise? I fully expect him to sail info the HOF on his first ballot. I just don't think he's a top 5 catcher. Easily top 20 in my book. I don’t have any real objection to him being inducted.

 

[PackJason.]

Major League Leaderboards » 2021 » Catchers » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

Major League leaderboards for 2021 catchers with dashboard

www.fangraphs.com

FWIW, here's the all-time rankings for catchers by Fangraphs WAR (which puts a lot of weight into pitch framing). Molina ranks 10th all-time versus being outside the top 20, but he ranks two spots behind... Buster Posey. It does rate Molina as the best defender of all-time but the framing data only goes back a few years, so older catchers might be underrated. Posey rates as an excellent defender himself.

Interesting. Thanks

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I just read 5 pages of nonsense and the only clear conclusion I could draw is PackJason has strictly watched Yadi Molina catching.

No other baseball.

 

[PackJason.]

I just read 5 pages of nonsense and the only clear conclusion I could draw is PackJason has strictly watched Yadi Molina catching.

No other baseball.

lol

Just having some fun. Just like Moss, Carter, Puckett, Payton, and Sanders, I have to give props to the best to ever spank my teams.

 

[navamind]

That Schax Merzer guy is pretty good.

 

[navamind]

Active Leaders &amp Records for WAR Position Players | Baseball-Reference.com

Active WAR/pos Leaders:1.<strong>Mike Trout</strong>/86.2/6647, 2.<strong>Mookie Betts</strong>/69.6/6273, 3.<strong>Paul Goldschmidt</strong>/62.8/8292, 4.<strong>Freddie Freeman</strong>/60.7/8736, 5.<strong>Manny Machado</strong>/57.9/7517, 6.<strong>Nolan Arenado</strong>/56.7/7078, 7.<st

www.baseball-reference.com

Thought this would be a fun thread to revisit.

Freddie Freeman's chances are looking rather good. He's coming off back-to-back 6+ WAR and > 150 OPS+ seasons. He's currently the active hit leader at 2139 and could make a run at 3000. I don't think he'll make it to 500 home runs, but he only needs 78 more to hit 400. He's at 56.2 WAR right now.

Aaron Judge has had a historical 2022 season and an awesome, albeit shortened 2023 season. He sits at a career 162 OPS+ (T-17th all-time, ahead of the likes of Musial/Mize/Dick Allen/Frank Thomas) and 41.7 WAR (averages 7.9 per 162; that's insane). Of course, the issues with Judge have been health (only three seasons with 500+ PA and three with 120+ games played) and he'll be turning 32 in a few days. I think he'll have a good peak argument and his rate stats are inner circle tier, but the lack of counting stats and longevity could really hurt him on the writers ballot... I think the next few years really make or break Judge's case.

Active Leaders &amp Records for WAR for Pitchers | Baseball-Reference.com

Active WAR Leaders:1.<strong>Justin Verlander</strong>/81.0/60, 2.<strong>Clayton Kershaw</strong>/76.5/847, 3.<strong>Max Scherzer</strong>/74.5/529, 4.<strong>Chris Sale</strong>/53.4/27, 5.<strong>Gerrit Cole</strong>/42.8/286, 6.<strong>Jacob deGrom</strong>/42.5/423, 7.<strong>Johnny

www.baseball-reference.com

I don't feel like there's much to say about the pitchers right now. Sale's thrown like 45 innings over the last five years. Strong peak and rate stats, but counting stats and lack of longevity really hurt. Cole feels like he has the best HOF chances of the non-Verlander/Scherzer/Kershaw pitchers, though we'll see how he does after coming back from the injury. At least his UCL is intact. deGrom is like the Judge of pitchers, but unlike Judge I'm skeptical about how much he can really add to his career at this point. He's thrown 254.2 innings over the last four seasons and won't be back until at least midseason.

 

[msgkings322]

Active Leaders &amp Records for WAR Position Players | Baseball-Reference.com

Active WAR/pos Leaders:1.<strong>Mike Trout</strong>/86.2/6647, 2.<strong>Mookie Betts</strong>/69.6/6273, 3.<strong>Paul Goldschmidt</strong>/62.8/8292, 4.<strong>Freddie Freeman</strong>/60.7/8736, 5.<strong>Manny Machado</strong>/57.9/7517, 6.<strong>Nolan Arenado</strong>/56.7/7078, 7.<st

www.baseball-reference.com

Thought this would be a fun thread to revisit.

Freddie Freeman's chances are looking rather good. He's coming off back-to-back 6+ WAR and > 150 OPS+ seasons. He's currently the active hit leader at 2139 and could make a run at 3000. I don't think he'll make it to 500 home runs, but he only needs 78 more to hit 400. He's at 56.2 WAR right now.

Aaron Judge has had a historical 2022 season and an awesome, albeit shortened 2023 season. He sits at a career 162 OPS+ (T-17th all-time, ahead of the likes of Musial/Mize/Dick Allen/Frank Thomas) and 41.7 WAR (averages 7.9 per 162; that's insane). Of course, the issues with Judge have been health (only three seasons with 500+ PA and three with 120+ games played) and he'll be turning 32 in a few days. I think he'll have a good peak argument and his rate stats are inner circle tier, but the lack of counting stats and longevity could really hurt him on the writers ballot... I think the next few years really make or break Judge's case.

Active Leaders &amp Records for WAR for Pitchers | Baseball-Reference.com

Active WAR Leaders:1.<strong>Justin Verlander</strong>/81.0/60, 2.<strong>Clayton Kershaw</strong>/76.5/847, 3.<strong>Max Scherzer</strong>/74.5/529, 4.<strong>Chris Sale</strong>/53.4/27, 5.<strong>Gerrit Cole</strong>/42.8/286, 6.<strong>Jacob deGrom</strong>/42.5/423, 7.<strong>Johnny

www.baseball-reference.com

I don't feel like there's much to say about the pitchers right now. Sale's thrown like 45 innings over the last five years. Strong peak and rate stats, but counting stats and lack of longevity really hurt. Cole feels like he has the best HOF chances of the non-Verlander/Scherzer/Kershaw pitchers, though we'll see how he does after coming back from the injury. At least his UCL is intact. deGrom is like the Judge of pitchers, but unlike Judge I'm skeptical about how much he can really add to his career at this point. He's thrown 254.2 innings over the last four seasons and won't be back until at least midseason.

Nice work. After seeing Mauer get in I now can take a victory lap when I predicted Posey would be a no doubt first ballot HOFer. Some have questioned him as he didn't play a lot of years to accumulate counting stats (even some Giants fans). We can now all agree he's in easy right away.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Nice work. After seeing Mauer get in I now can take a victory lap when I predicted Posey would be a no doubt first ballot HOFer. Some have questioned him as he didn't play a lot of years to accumulate counting stats (even some Giants fans). We can now all agree he's in easy right away.

i dont like the Look THIS GUY MADE IT TO THE HOF, that means PLAYER B IS NOW A HOFer logic...


Mauer, was an odd case IMO.. he looked much better for the not analytical people... as he was a 3 time BA leader to add to his MVP season...

Posey, only lead the league in anything once....


I thought Mauer was on the fence... but i like his resume more than posey anyway....

wouldnt be upset if posey makes it... but i dont think he is close to a sure thing... even as catchers go, Yadier molina is above Posey IMO...

 

[msgkings322]

i dont like the Look THIS GUY MADE IT TO THE HOF, that means PLAYER B IS NOW A HOFer logic...


Mauer, was an odd case IMO.. he looked much better for the not analytical people... as he was a 3 time BA leader to add to his MVP season...

Posey, only lead the league in anything once....


I thought Mauer was on the fence... but i like his resume more than posey anyway....

wouldnt be upset if posey makes it... but i dont think he is close to a sure thing... even as catchers go, Yadier molina is above Posey IMO...

LOL if Posey isn't a Hall of Famer they should just burn the place down. You don't know what you're talking about.

Posey led the league in being the key piece of a dynasty. Kinda makes him pretty 'Fame'-ous

Mauer was as much a first baseman as a catcher anyway

 

[MilkSpiller22]

LOL if Posey isn't a Hall of Famer they should just burn the place down. You don't know what you're talking about.

you still whining that tim lincecum didnt make it??

 

[msgkings322]

you still whining that tim lincecum didnt make it??

Since I never did that the answer is no

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Since I never did that the answer is no

i thought every giant who did anything deserves to make it to the HOF... first ballot too....