A.L. Central Smack Talk 2014

[navamind]

After a long slump, Santana's finally starting to hit. Santana had a line of .146/.303/.268 on May 21. He's batted .365/.500/.716 in his last 94 PA, bringing his season line to a far more respectable .214/.366/.408 (and a 121 OPS+).

 

[Howie115]

Three game lead + four games in hand for the Tigers now. Kinda lucked out -- KC had to face Kershaw vs. LAD, while the Tigers will miss Darvish's turn in TEX.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I would just be happy to win the series with the Dodgers going into it. Would be pleased to win tonight. Kershaw is just a brick wall. Good luck to anyone trying to hit him- you'll need it.

 

[gvsulaker82]

A lot of teams would take porcello over duffy or ventura. And Smyly is on par with both... Have either completed an entire season in the MLB? Smyly and Porcello have.

I would definitely take ventura over either and probably take duffy over smyly, and maybe over porcello. Both are going to be at least two starters in the next few years.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Tigers sweep the Indians~! 2x tigers have sweep the Indians at HOME..but don't say nuttin! you might be called a homer for pointing out this STAT.


Miggy another big day. how about that JD Martinez??? not a bad pick up.

J.d. Hs been a nice boost but a seriously prolonged slump is coming.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Raburningriver also said on the tigers thread fisters era in seattle before he was traded wasnt good but at the same time the 2014 tigers bullpen would be good. This was before the season started.

 

[jdwills126]

Smyly has pitched some good innings the last 4 starts. And Porcello looks to be maturing into a solid middle of the rotation guy. I think the Ventura and Duffy may have a bigger upside but Detroit's situation right now Smyly and Porcello are better fits.

I think KC should feel good about their guys. They whiffed on some arms early this decade so to have a couple of guys pan out must make them happy with the future.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Trout's clearly established himself as the better player.

Disagree. This year so far, sure. The past three years, no.

 

[gvsulaker82]

That signing of Morales is going to put them in it, just a brilliant signing...if they are close at the deadline, they could be major buyers.

I think they signed him with the sole intent to trade him for prospects at the deadline. I just dont see how the twins will be a factor in the second half with that rotation. But what do I know, not a twins fan.

 

[broncosmitty]

I think they signed him with the sole intent to trade him for prospects at the deadline. I just dont see how the twins will be a factor in the second half with that rotation. But what do I know, not a twins fan.

Nolasco needs to step it up. Hard thing to transition from the NL to the AL, but he has to be better for the Twins to not be sellers. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Might have been a club chemistry thing. Rumor was Garcia was banging Prince's wife. That's some bad mojo in the clubhouse that isn't needed.

Yup yup...we didnt need that....put miggy in the middle of his good friend fielder and his protege garcia....

 

[da55bums]

Disagree. This year so far, sure. The past three years, no.

Trout has grown into clearly the better player. Miggy peaked already. No different than when Miggy took it over from Pujols.

 

[Cleaves2000]

Miggy and the martinez boys are on a nice lil streak....seems like we been playing better on the road....

 

[Howie115]

Quote:


Originally Posted by navamind


Trout's clearly established himself as the better player.

Disagree. This year so far, sure. The past three years, no.

Better "player", factoring in speed and defense, I'd say yes for Trout. Better hitter, no.

 

[broncosmitty]

Trout has grown into clearly the better player. Miggy peaked already. No different than when Miggy took it over from Pujols.

You sure wish that were true, don'tcha?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Disagree. This year so far, sure. The past three years, no.

Since the start of 2012, Trout has a 176 OPS+ compared to Cabrera's 171 OPS+

Then you factor in baserunning/positional value/defense, and how is Cabrera better over the past 3 years?

 

[Howie115]

Since the start of 2012, Trout has a 176 OPS+ compared to Cabrera's 171 OPS+

Then you factor in baserunning/positional value/defense, and how is Cabrera better over the past 3 years?

Yeah, I agreed on the "better overall player" for Trout. But there's more to hitting than OPS+ stats. For example, Cabrera has been unbelievably clutch the last few years. Comparing the two in RISP and 2 outs/RISP stats since Trout's first full season:

CABRERA

2012 RISP: .356 BA / .424 OBP / 170 sOPS+
2012 RISP/2 outs: .420 BA / .491 OBP / 239 sOPS+

2013 RISP: .397 BA / .529 OBP / 259 sOPS+
2013 RISP/2-outs: .459 BA / .612 OBP / s348 OPS+

2014 RISP: .394 BA / .440 OBP / s196 OPS+
2014 RISP/2 outs: .391 BA / .500 OBP / s260 OPS+


TROUT

2012 RISP: .324 BA / .393 OBP / 156 sOPS+
2012 RISP/2 outs: .286 BA / .435 OBP / 122 sOPS+

2013 RISP: .324 BA / .457 OBP / 174 sOPS+
2013 RISP/2 outs: .290 BA / .450 OBP / 181 sOPS+

2014 RISP: .316 BA / .403 OBP / 197 sOPS+
2014 RISP/2 outs: .261 BA / .452 OBP / 156 sOPS+

 

[gandydancer]

Yeah, I agreed on the "better overall player" for Trout. But there's more to hitting than OPS+ stats. For example, Cabrera has been unbelievably clutch the last few years. Comparing the two in RISP and 2 outs/RISP stats since Trout's first full season:

CABRERA

2012 RISP: .356 BA / .424 OBP / 170 sOPS+
2012 RISP/2 outs: .420 BA / .491 OBP / 239 sOPS+

2013 RISP: .397 BA / .529 OBP / 259 sOPS+
2013 RISP/2-outs: .459 BA / .612 OBP / s348 OPS+

2014 RISP: .394 BA / .440 OBP / s196 OPS+
2014 RISP/2 outs: .391 BA / .500 OBP / s260 OPS+


TROUT

2012 RISP: .324 BA / .393 OBP / 156 sOPS+
2012 RISP/2 outs: .286 BA / .435 OBP / 122 sOPS+

2013 RISP: .324 BA / .457 OBP / 174 sOPS+
2013 RISP/2 outs: .290 BA / .450 OBP / 181 sOPS+

2014 RISP: .316 BA / .403 OBP / 197 sOPS+
2014 RISP/2 outs: .261 BA / .452 OBP / 156 sOPS+

One reason why hate 752 stats for baseball. You can cherry pick to make a arguement look good or in this case you making Dabums assumption OPS+ for Trout not look as good.

IMO it's awesome both get in conversation together these days. At least good for baseball. I still feel it is Miggy. I also know someday he will pass the torch and most likely to Trout.

 

[navamind]

One reason why hate 752 stats for baseball. You can cherry pick to make a arguement look good or in this case you making Dabums assumption OPS+ for Trout not look as good.

IMO it's awesome both get in conversation together these days. At least good for baseball. I still feel it is Miggy. I also know someday he will pass the torch and most likely to Trout.

Even if Miggy is the better hitter, the gap between them offensively is a lot smaller than some suggest. And I don't think it's enough to offset Trout's advantages on the base paths/defensively. And comparing the RBI totals of a 1/2 hitter and a 3/4 hitter is kind of silly. Regardless, they're both fantastic players I consider myself lucky to have watched.

But if you're going to say people bringing up suuch stats are "cherry picking," isn't Howie doing the same? RISP stats only account for so many of a player's overall plate appearances.

 

[gandydancer]

Even if Miggy is the better hitter, the gap between them offensively is a lot smaller than some suggest. And I don't think it's enough to offset Trout's advantages on the base paths/defensively. And comparing the RBI totals of a 1/2 hitter and a 3/4 hitter is kind of silly. Regardless, they're both fantastic players I consider myself lucky to have watched.

But if you're going to say people bringing up suuch stats are "cherry picking," isn't Howie doing the same? RISP stats only account for so many of a player's overall plate appearances.

I was in a sense calling all of us cherry pickers when using stats in baseball. I was saying Howie was also doing it as was dabums. Comparing stats are never silly...otherwise it's just opinion VS. opinion correct?

Would that stat be silly if totals are higher for 1/2 hitter. No, because it would show more substance to the arguement.