A.L. Central Smack Talk 2014

[CSD]

The best hitter on the planet is not tulo....hes one of my favorite players and the leader on my fantasy team, but take him away from coors and hes nowhere near the best on the planet....that is miggy until someone takes it away.....my bet is trout, puig, or abreu for the future

Troy

Home .477 1.422 OPS
Away .252 .820
Overall .356 1.098
18 HR 45 RBI


Miggy

Home .307 .903 OPS
Away .331 .933
Overall .318 .916
12 HR 56 RBI


Troy has the better overall numbers, but we still have a long season to go. I know you're a homer for Miggy, but at least give credit to the season Troy is putting together..

 

[Fountain City Blues]

If you go to the 2013 fWAR leaderboards for starters (including those who didn't qualify) out of the first 30, four Tigers show up in the top 12.


It was a historical level of domination by Tigers starters.

 

[broncosmitty]

no.

he would be though if he pitched for the Mets, Braves, Marlins,Pirates,Cubs,Brewers, DBacks, Rockies,Padres, Yankees, Orioles, Red Sox, Twins, Indians, Royals, Angels,Rangers, or Astros.

Not the Indians, Red Sox, or Angels.(Id rather have several braves starters over Doug also.) His stats might be better than Masterson, Wilson or Lester/Lackey right now,(I have no idea) but he doesn't top out where any of those guys do. Im not all about Ks from starters, but most #2 guys aren't "pitching to contact". Im obviously in the minority on this, so I'll ask all you to please let me know when Dougie is honestly someone's #2 pitcher. (Clock is ticking, he's 30.)

 

[Fountain City Blues]

To add insult to injury, Porcello was 41st (Turrible defense for the GB pitcher). In otherwords, theoretically, the Tigers had four aces and a #2 starter as their 5th starter.

 

[broncosmitty]

If you go to the 2013 fWAR leaderboards for starters (including those who didn't qualify) out of the first 30, four Tigers show up in the top 12.


It was a historical level of domination by Tigers starters.

Yes it was historical for sure. But I still don't want to go fWAR:rollseyes:

 

[navamind]

If you go to the 2013 fWAR leaderboards for starters (including those who didn't qualify) out of the first 30, four Tigers show up in the top 12.


It was a historical level of domination by Tigers starters.

Yeah, that rotation was ridiculous. Even Porcello, their worst starter, had a 97 ERA+ and threw 177 innings. Not bad at all.

 

[gandydancer]

Oh gosh, you're really sensitive..! are you female?


- As far as saying it would take a modern day miracle, I was exaggerating my statements. This is a smack talk thread, people like you need to stop taking stuff to heart. Where is your sense of humor?

- Credibility and fear. I'm not here to gain any credibility from Tigers fans or anyone for that matter. It's an internet forum folks! I don't take this seriously and I'll never meet anyone from here. Second, as a diehard Yankees fan I don't 'fear' any team in baseball. Every time you say I fear the Tigers you make me laugh, literally.

- I'm as real as a baseball fan you'll come across, the difference is I like to talk smack and have fun during the long season. As I said earlier, try and pull your sense of humor from your ass, get a beer and some nuts, and have fun! Don't take what I say so seriously.

As stated you aren't looking for any creditibility. That's a good thing, you accusing people of being sensitive is funny coming from you. The guy who defends anything Yankees in a very sensitive fashion. You used to a have signature that stated sarcasm was one of the services you offer...you have very little and have very touchy feelings. CSD you should truly read what your own post states and take notice of it. You sir are one who dishes and can not receive...

Quit taking stuff to heart. Embrace the Jeter strikeout thread and circus thread. Show us that sense of humor would ya one time?

Signed the second tool you came across here.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Swish!!!!!!!!!!

 

[gandydancer]

Troy

Home .477 1.422 OPS
Away .252 .820
Overall .356 1.098
18 HR 45 RBI


Miggy

Home .307 .903 OPS
Away .331 .933
Overall .318 .916
12 HR 56 RBI


Troy has the better overall numbers, but we still have a long season to go. I know you're a homer for Miggy, but at least give credit to the season Troy is putting together..

Troy is surely having a better seaon so far. The stats show that. Compare the last three seasons against anyone and that is why he a the purest hitter in the game. Troy plays at this level all year and yes, he will be in conversation.

Proud of you CSD. This just may be the first post in this thread that actaully has baseball substance. Keep up the good job Sport!

 

[gandydancer]

If you go to the 2013 fWAR leaderboards for starters (including those who didn't qualify) out of the first 30, four Tigers show up in the top 12.


It was a historical level of domination by Tigers starters.

Still in therapy Moose... still in therapy. With all the talk about Fister on here today. You put him back in the rotation right now the Tigers are still in same spot second. Just my opinion.

You get no run support does not matter who you are. Sad part is lately it seems the offense scores when Verlander is on the bump and not other guys.

 

[da55bums]

Still in therapy Moose... still in therapy. With all the talk about Fister on here today. You put him back in the rotation right now the Tigers are still in same spot second. Just my opinion.

You get no run support does not matter who you are. Sad part is lately it seems the offense scores when Verlander is on the bump and not other guys.

run support? the Tigers are 25th in the majors in era, hate to tell you but not many teams win much with that type of pitching, its not the pitching of the past, no matter how much run support.

Fister could easily have them in 1st, especially if he pitched from opening day, but still since he has been available, he has pitched better than 4 Tigers starters...statistically and if he pitched for Verlander or smyly would have won at least 2 to 4 more games which would put them in 1st.

Fister could be a #2 on every team in the AL (except detroit, Oak, Sea), NL all teams except SF, LA, ATL, WAS....he could be a #1 on 12 teams but I think he is more like Grienke, doesn't feel comfortable as the #1.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

run support? the Tigers are 25th in the majors in era, hate to tell you but not many teams win much with that type of pitching, its not the pitching of the past, no matter how much run support.

Fister could easily have them in 1st, especially if he pitched from opening day, but still since he has been available, he has pitched better than 4 Tigers starters...statistically and if he pitched for Verlander or smyly would have won at least 2 to 4 more games which would put them in 1st.

Fister could be a #2 on every team in the AL (except detroit, Oak, Sea), NL all teams except SF, LA, ATL, WAS....he could be a #1 on 12 teams but I think he is more like Grienke, doesn't feel comfortable as the #1.

The Tigers run suppression hasn't been exactly awesome, but that's more due to SSS, terribad defense, and a shitty bullpen than bad starters. Albeit, Smyly is no Fister and Verlander is somewhat concerning, but Scherzer and Sanchez are very strong anchors to any rotation.

 

[gandydancer]

run support? the Tigers are 25th in the majors in era, hate to tell you but not many teams win much with that type of pitching, its not the pitching of the past, no matter how much run support.

Fister could easily have them in 1st, especially if he pitched from opening day, but still since he has been available, he has pitched better than 4 Tigers starters...statistically and if he pitched for Verlander or smyly would have won at least 2 to 4 more games which would put them in 1st.

Fister could be a #2 on every team in the AL (except detroit, Oak, Sea), NL all teams except SF, LA, ATL, WAS....he could be a #1 on 12 teams but I think he is more like Grienke, doesn't feel comfortable as the #1.

Have they been there all year Bums? No, early on when they were hot they were near top. You type as if they have sucked all season. Not getting my goat Bums. You will have to try harder. Just like do you really think all will stay the same with Royals during this current streak. Win steaks and losing streaks always skew numbers. I don't feel the Tigers finish with 25th ERA in league when all said and done. Streaks happen and everything click during them. Besides Dougie most here have no issue with knowing the Tigers had some vary glaring weaknesses before season started.

Saying Fister would have ??? whatever here is unknown. Like I said with no run support ERA means nothing. Fister in Seattle and in Detroit are prime example. Smyly gave up 2 runs in both his last starts with 0 that is zero run support on the mound. Not many pitchers can have success with that either.

 

[gandydancer]

Another example Bums is look how much run support Max got last year. He wins about 4-6 less games and a CYA without it.

 

[da55bums]

when was the last time, at any point after april for the last 4 or 5 years, that the Tigers were 25th or higher in team ERA?

in those 4 or 5 years, I would guess that their were a few "streaks".

This isn't about a "streak", I am just saying there is something out of the ordinary with the Tigers pitching numbers. If this was april, I wouldn't be saying a thing about a 25th ranking but if you want to say "it was a bad week" go ahead...a bad week doesn't take you from top to the bottom of the entire league in mid June.

Verlander and Max are going to be the keys and they both aren't coming close to what "projections" and predictions were. The great news is they both are capable of blowing the lid off for a few months but Verlander doesn't look like he can out pitch Porcello right now. Max should have a more realistic season to his abilities.

I wouldn't have guessed this would happen, nor even remotely thought that it would and not just picking on it because its the Tigers...the fact is I could say the same thing about Tampa Bay's pitching staff at least the DL has been a factor with them. Verlander gets DLed, then it would make more sense.

 

[da55bums]

Another example Bums is look how much run support Max got last year. He wins about 4-6 less games and a CYA without it.

he also wins 4-6 less games if his ERA is higher, like this year? it can go both ways.

 

[da55bums]

The Tigers run suppression hasn't been exactly awesome, but that's more due to SSS, terribad defense, and a shitty bullpen than bad starters. Albeit, Smyly is no Fister and Verlander is somewhat concerning, but Scherzer and Sanchez are very strong anchors to any rotation.

The Tigers rotation of the last 4 years didn't have better defenses nor good bullpens either and they managed to stay in the upper tier.

 

[broncosmitty]

What was Detroit's ERA ranking say, three weeks ago? (They're 24th right now btw.).

 

[Howie115]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleaves2000
The best hitter on the planet is not tulo....hes one of my favorite players and the leader on my fantasy team, but take him away from coors and hes nowhere near the best on the planet....that is miggy until someone takes it away.....my bet is trout, puig, or abreu for the future

Coors is a fair point, though even if he hit elsewhere, he'd still be among the best offensive shortstops in the league (career .274/.348/.471 hitter on road). And combine that with his defense and he's still a top 3 shortstop.

But who knows what kind of numbers he'd put up outside of Coors? Larry Walker was still a very good hitter after he got traded to the Cards by the Rockies. Batted .286/.387/.520 (134 OPS+) in 144 games with the Cards before retiring. And Walker's home/away splits are huge (though his .865 OPS on the road is still quite good). Walker was becoming a great hitter before he went to Colorado too (he had a 128 OPS+ as an Expo, 151 in his last year with the Expos (granted it was a strike-shortened year).

CSD didn't say "top hitting shortstop," he said Tulowitzki was the best hitter on the planet, above Cabrera. Sorry ... .252 on the road for Tulo? That tells you all you need to know. Yeah, he's got better numbers than Miguel through 2.5 months, and it means jack-shit. Tulo is a .299 career hitter playing 50% of his games at Coors. Miguel is a .321 career hitter playing for Miami and Detroit. Not even CLOSE.

Michael Cuddyer was ordinary in the AL, then won a batting title his first year in Colorado. After three crappy years in Minnesota for Justin Morneau (.227, .267, .259), he's hitting .297 with 11 HR his first year playing for the Rockies. Christ, even Andres Galarraga had a .370 season for the Rockies. Pitches don't move there and the ball flies. Cabrera would have a .350+ career average if he'd played there.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The fun part about Coors is it has the most sq footage in the league. They can't really move out the fences. I guess they could make them taller or something.