A.L. Central Discussion 2016

[MiamiVice]

• While I like what I see with the offense, baserunning, defense, and fundamentals, that can only do so much for you with mediocre starting pitching. Starting pitching was probably the difference between a 95 win campaign and a 100+ win campaign, a minor quibble, but losing Zobrist for Infante and Cueto for Kennedy does suck. Cleveland is creeping for too close for my liking. I'd really like to be a homer but I do like Cleveland over 162 to win the division. The Royals really aren't build for that kind of attrition (as opposed to the condensed postseason) and need to stay healthy which is an if given two straight deep runs.
• Agreed when it comes to the Twins
• Was dismayed to see Lindor do so well with the bat so quickly. Hopefully Mondesi can follow suit this year in AA. Need a lot of bounceback years from Royals prospects, but I guess that's why they're ranked in the 20's instead of everyone glowing about upside like the previous two years.
• That's always nice, I am going to guess it'll take a deep playoff run to get Cleveland's attention that the Tribe are serious. Definitely seemed that way down here.

There are costs to making long playoff runs and the royals are feeling them. not only does it take a toll on health down the road, but it costs talent and depth when you make trades like they did last year. this year may not be the year those trades get them... but the 4 pitchers they gave up were not far from being MLB ready. They didn't have a ton of prospect depth as far as position talent goes because they called it all up.. and haven't picked high in a few years... and really haven't drafted well recently. This is realistically the last run the Royals are going to be able to attempt to make. Payroll for next year is bordering on 170 mil. Unless the Royals plan on literally riding this group til the wheels fall off I see them making some intelligent trades of players like Hosmer and Wade Davis to reload the roster and lower payroll while they can still get value.

It doesn't have to be a full rebuild if they make the moves before 2017 starts. They could easily unload guys like Morales, Davis, and Hosmer for MLB ready young talent and keep the team relevant and maybe even keep a guy like Moustakas around.

Not sure why you would want to gain the traction the Royals have gained with the fans only to have a big drop off when everyone leaves in free agency. Smart thing to do is to go the Tampa approach and trade a few players away with a full season of arbitration salary left and get young guys that are controllable back in return.

 

[MiamiVice]

It's tough for the Indians. This is, without question, a Browns town. Then add Lebron, and the Cavs are for the time being right up there with the Browns. Like it or not, from a business standpoint, those are the Indians' competitors.

My opinion is it would take more that a single playoff run to get Cleveland fans behind the Indians. The Tribe tied for the best record in baseball in 2007, went to game 7 of the ALCS and were still just 21st in attendance. They ranked 22nd in 2008 - granted they'd spit the bit on the field, but still, to go backwards?

They're going to have to have at least two years of sustained success for these folks to get behind them - particularly with Lebron in town.

How can a fan base be so focused on a NFL team that is quite possibly the biggest laughing stock in the entire league right now? Not even joking around.... i want to know how a MLB team can be solid and get 14,000 people per game in footballs offseason, and it can be the fault of the shitty NFL franchise in town.

 

[MiamiVice]

Go, Little Caesars!

Yes... Go Little Caesars! Go!

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Not sure why you would want to gain the traction the Royals have gained with the fans only to have a big drop off when everyone leaves in free agency. Smart thing to do is to go the Tampa approach and trade a few players away with a full season of arbitration salary left and get young guys that are controllable back in return.

I suspect the answer is they want to be in a good position to negotiate the upcoming TV contract within a year. We''ll have to see what the reality ends up being though.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

How can a fan base be so focused on a NFL team that is quite possibly the biggest laughing stock in the entire league right now? Not even joking around.... i want to know how a MLB team can be solid and get 14,000 people per game in footballs offseason, and it can be the fault of the shitty NFL franchise in town.

Heh, I remember when we had that Scott Pioli buffoon as the GM of the Chiefs and I pretty much wrote them off; that ship was headed for the bottom of the ocean as soon as Cassel came over. Wish more people had sense about these type of things instead of slavishly spending on NFL teams that don't give anything back over and over.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

How can a fan base be so focused on a NFL team that is quite possibly the biggest laughing stock in the entire league right now? Not even joking around.... i want to know how a MLB team can be solid and get 14,000 people per game in footballs offseason, and it can be the fault of the shitty NFL franchise in town.

They love football around here. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know where you got the 14,000 figure, though.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Not sure why you would want to gain the traction the Royals have gained with the fans only to have a big drop off when everyone leaves in free agency. Smart thing to do is to go the Tampa approach and trade a few players away with a full season of arbitration salary left and get young guys that are controllable back in return.

As someone that has watched a fanbase's reaction to trading off team "heroes," I can tell you that there's a fine line there. Shapiro was more or less persona non grata after trading away back to back CY winners along with Victor Martinez. It was the smart move, but eliminated any goodwill that their 2007 performance gained them.

 

[MiamiVice]

Why the Indians will win the Central

They have the starting pitching depth that every other team in the AL lacks. Plus a decent bullpen.

Why the Indians won't win the Central

They have a lineup with holes in it in many places and very little depth. They could always make a few trades in season to address this but their owner is a cheap skate that isn't going to pay for added salary...

Why the Tigers will win the Central

If injures are limited the Tigers have one of the most solid lineups in baseball, what could be a solid bullpen, an average rotation, and a few prospects in the upper minors with enough value to make a trade if needed to land more firepower midseason.

Why the Tigers will not win the Central

Health may be an issue. Taking what on paper is a great lineup and reducing it to average. The bullpen may still be a weakness, and a few injuries to the starting rotation would force the Tigers to have possibly 3 rookies in their starting rotation.

Why the White Sox will win the Central

The White Sox may be the most balanced team... with an owner that has been willing in the past to pay if needed.

Why the White Sox will not win the Central

Balance may not be enough... as they are a pretty average team.

Why the Royals will win the Central

The Royals still have a solid bullpen and decent lineup that.

Why the Royals will not win the Central

The Royals lost pitching depth that will effect not only their rotation this season, but their bullpen. They are not as good as they were last year with Zobrist and Rios gone. Long playoff runs take tolls and Sal Perez is going to be the first to show signs of it. If Perez goes on the DL for any legth of time... the Royals have nothing to replace him with and already have holes at 2nd base and Rf.

Why the Twins will win the Central

The only way the Twins win the Central is if the Royals and Tigers have a ton of injuries and the Indians pitching isn't good enough to cover for their shit lineup.

Why the Twins will not win the Central

The Twins rotation, bullpen, and lineup looks below average. They don't seem like they really want to spend or trade prospects to win now.. so I think they are content with letting time pass and hope the prospects grow together and they can win down the road.

 

[MiamiVice]

Heh, I remember when we had that Scott Pioli buffoon as the GM of the Chiefs and I pretty much wrote them off; that ship was headed for the bottom of the ocean as soon as Cassel came over. Wish more people had sense about these type of things instead of slavishly spending on NFL teams that don't give anything back over and over.

I just don't buy it.. The NFL season isn't affecting 80% of the MLB season. If someone wants to go to a game... for the majority of the MLB season they don't even have a choice... After the NBA is done the MLB has 3 months before NFL preseason even starts.

I would buy the Cavs hurt the Indians attendance more than the Browns.. but the Cavs were dog shit in attendance to until last year... so its really hard to explain.. unless you want to say that a guy budgets out his entire year to spend on the NFL and doesn't have the money to spend on MLB in the NFL's offseason... which I highly doubt.

 

[MiamiVice]

They love football around here. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know where you got the 14,000 figure, though.

sorry 17,000.. my bad.

your theory really makes no sense. From MLB's opening day all the way to August.. there are no NFL games... and Aug games are preseason... Basically 80% of the season NFL games are not even an option to watch... and the NBA is only around until the first week of June IF they go to the Finals.

20 years ago the Indians were the hottest ticket in MLB... how they fall to where they are now is just bad business when attendance is up in just about every other city.

 

[MiamiVice]

As someone that has watched a fanbase's reaction to trading off team "heroes," I can tell you that there's a fine line there. Shapiro was more or less persona non grata after trading away back to back CY winners along with Victor Martinez. It was the smart move, but eliminated any goodwill that their 2007 performance gained them.

Plust the fact that they sucked serious cock after said trades and didn't make the playoffs again until 2013.

 

[MiamiVice]

Fall right into my plan iffy... keep rating my posts... fall right into my plan.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I just don't buy it.. The NFL season isn't affecting 80% of the MLB season. If someone wants to go to a game... for the majority of the MLB season they don't even have a choice... After the NBA is done the MLB has 3 months before NFL preseason even starts.

I would buy the Cavs hurt the Indians attendance more than the Browns.. but the Cavs were dog shit in attendance to until last year... so its really hard to explain.. unless you want to say that a guy budgets out his entire year to spend on the NFL and doesn't have the money to spend on MLB in the NFL's offseason... which I highly doubt.

I think that has more to do with it that you're acknowledging. Particularly when you factor in the average price of the three sports' tickets -- I think NBA is roughly twice MLB, and NFL is north of three times. Do these folks want to go see the Indians suck balls a few times, the Cavs kick as a couple, or the Browns who will also suck, but they love?

If that's not it, I don't know what it is. Cleveland is not a baseball town. I remember walking out of the division-clinching game in 2007, playoff bound as one of the top teams in baseball, and the crowd I was surrounded by as I walked out were all talking about the upcoming Browns season, in which they were going to suck balls again.

It's not what it's not, I suppose.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

10 days from the NHL trade deadline... Hopefully the Sharks don't do anything stupid.

 

[Iffster]

I swear this Vice bozo mentions dicks and cocks more than anybody that I have met in a long time. I mean....I know some guys who TALK that way....but to actually type out 'dick' and 'cock' over and over on the internet. I don't know? I just can't relate to that....it just isn't something that is on my mind ALL THE TIME. But to each his own. (As the old Seinfeld bit goes....''but there is nothing wrong with that!")

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Plust the fact that they sucked serious cock after said trades and didn't make the playoffs again until 2013.

Well, believe it or not, when you trade away your top players for prospects, that's what happens.

 

[MiamiVice]

I think that has more to do with it that you're acknowledging. Particularly when you factor in the average price of the three sports' tickets -- I think NBA is roughly twice MLB, and NFL is north of three times. Do these folks want to go see the Indians suck balls a few times, the Cavs kick as a couple, or the Browns who will also suck, but they love?

If that's not it, I don't know what it is. Cleveland is not a baseball town. I remember walking out of the division-clinching game in 2007, playoff bound as one of the top teams in baseball, and the crowd I was surrounded by as I walked out were all talking about the upcoming Browns season, in which they were going to suck balls again.

It's not what it's not, I suppose.

The Indians were not a bad team last year... Spending $30 on a ticket would have been well worth it.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

20 years ago the Indians were the hottest ticket in MLB... how they fall to where they are now is just bad business when attendance is up in just about every other city.

Downtown Cleveland had just gone through a massive renovation that started attracting folks tfor the first time in probably a couple generations. The Indians had a brand new ballpark and were kicking ass. The Cavs sucked balls, and the Browns did not exist.

It doesn't matter if you think it makes sense or not.

 

[MiamiVice]

I think that has more to do with it that you're acknowledging. Particularly when you factor in the average price of the three sports' tickets -- I think NBA is roughly twice MLB, and NFL is north of three times. Do these folks want to go see the Indians suck balls a few times, the Cavs kick as a couple, or the Browns who will also suck, but they love?

If that's not it, I don't know what it is. Cleveland is not a baseball town. I remember walking out of the division-clinching game in 2007, playoff bound as one of the top teams in baseball, and the crowd I was surrounded by as I walked out were all talking about the upcoming Browns season, in which they were going to suck balls again.

It's not what it's not, I suppose.

A lot of stupid people in Cleveland I guess... Detroit loves the Lions.. but nobody is going to sacrifice not going to a tigers game over going to a lions game that I have ever talked to.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

The Indians were not a bad team last year... Spending $30 on a ticket would have been well worth it.

I agree. I went to a half-dozen games or more. I used to hit 20-30 games a season before my kids came along.