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Game Thread: 9/17 Snelk @ Camden Yards

SF11704

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The argument is that having 10 guys on 1st is more valuable than having 7 guys on 2nd (or whatever the actual numbers would be). But that simple calculation doesn’t factor in momentum or distraction caused to the defense, or the 1 in 10 guys who get to 3rd due to an error.

Anyone who grew up watching Rickey mindfuck pitchers at least has a clue as to the benefit of a SB.
Henderson messed up many a pitcher's mind ... probably had the catcher on edge as well .... prior to Henderson ... there was a player on the Dodgers (Maury Wills) that had the same effect ...
 

LHG

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Henderson messed up many a pitcher's mind ... probably had the catcher on edge as well .... prior to Henderson ... there was a player on the Dodgers (Maury Wills) that had the same effect ...
Vince Coleman was able to disrupt opposing teams for a bit on the basepaths as well but he kind of torpedoed his own career. Was arguably more cocky than Ricky but didn't have the same level of talent.
 

calsnowskier

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Vince Coleman was able to disrupt opposing teams for a bit on the basepaths as well but he kind of torpedoed his own career. Was arguably more cocky than Ricky but didn't have the same level of talent.
#forevergiantcoach
 

SF11704

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Living in NY for most pf my life I did see a lot of Henderson footage. He was a terror on the basepaths. Looking back now ... I can see the disruption ... wild pitches pitchouts, bad throws from the catchers, infielders out of position trying to cover, many stolen bases. And just general confusion. Speed is so much more of a weapon than just stolen bases ...
 

sf1giantfan

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Living in NY for most pf my life I did see a lot of Henderson footage. He was a terror on the basepaths. Looking back now ... I can see the disruption ... wild pitches pitchouts, bad throws from the catchers, infielders out of position trying to cover, many stolen bases. And just general confusion. Speed is so much more of a weapon than just stolen bases ...
I agree, and our manager should really let our speedsters run. Not necessarily at will but get our runners practicing now while the season is ending. Hopefully by next season our runners can be distracting the opposing team.
 

calsnowskier

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I agree, and our manager should really let our speedsters run. Not necessarily at will but get our runners practicing now while the season is ending. Hopefully by next season our runners can be distracting the opposing team.
Tbf, what “speedsters” do we have?

I count exactly 2 (Crazy, Fitz). Chappy and Yaz arent slow, but I would rate them as more “league average” than anything else. It is just on the Giants where they would be listed as “speedsters”.
 

tzill

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The argument is that having 10 guys on 1st is more valuable than having 7 guys on 2nd (or whatever the actual numbers would be). But that simple calculation doesn’t factor in momentum or distraction caused to the defense, or the 1 in 10 guys who get to 3rd due to an error.

Anyone who grew up watching Rickey mindfuck pitchers at least has a clue as to the benefit of a SB.
yeah, but using RH as a base stealing comparison is like comparing any power hitting strategy to BLB.

He was one of one.

that said, I find McCray exciting and am interested to see how having him, Lee, and Fitz in the starting lineup will affect base stealing/first to third running etc...
 

tzill

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Vince Coleman was able to disrupt opposing teams for a bit on the basepaths as well but he kind of torpedoed his own career. Was arguably more cocky than Ricky but didn't have the same level of talent.
nobody did. RH stands alone. The phuking guy had Robby Thompson HOLDING HIM ON SECOND BASE in the 89 WS.
 

tzill

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nobody did. RH stands alone.
Tbf, what “speedsters” do we have?

I count exactly 2 (Crazy, Fitz). Chappy and Yaz arent slow, but I would rate them as more “league average” than anything else. It is just on the Giants where they would be listed as “speedsters”.
Lee
 

calsnowskier

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yeah, but using RH as a base stealing comparison is like comparing any power hitting strategy to BLB.

He was one of one.

that said, I find McCray exciting and am interested to see how having him, Lee, and Fitz in the starting lineup will affect base stealing/first to third running etc...
Sure. But as SF said, and I alluded to, simply bypassing the running game makes other teams much more comfortable defending JUST the batter. You don’t need to disrupt the defense to the level of Rickey to get a significant advantage. Double plays disappear. Pitchers are distracted. Pitcher commit balks. Catchers throw the ball to the OF. The offensive teams burns their challenge early so they can’t use it on a close play at 1st in the 6th. Etc. Etc. Etc.
 

sf1giantfan

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Tbf, what “speedsters” do we have?

I count exactly 2 (Crazy, Fitz). Chappy and Yaz arent slow, but I would rate them as more “league average” than anything else. It is just on the Giants where they would be listed as “speedsters”.
Yep, those are the ones I’m counting too. But we don’t run enough, I guess the main problem is we don’t get on base enough to run.
 

calsnowskier

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Yep, those are the ones I’m counting too. But we don’t run enough, I guess the main problem is we don’t get on base enough to run.
So what you are ultimately saying is…

Our offense is overall anemic.
 

tzill

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Sure. But as SF said, and I alluded to, simply bypassing the running game makes other teams much more comfortable defending JUST the batter. You don’t need to disrupt the defense to the level of Rickey to get a significant advantage. Double plays disappear. Pitchers are distracted. Pitcher commit balks. Catchers throw the ball to the OF. The offensive teams burns their challenge early so they can’t use it on a close play at 1st in the 6th. Etc. Etc. Etc.
100% agreed. Just pointing out the uniqueness of Ricky.

Phuking 89 series still hurts.
 

tzill

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What if we had a lineup next year of:

C - Bailey
1b -LWJ
2b- Fitz
SS - Kim
3b - Chap
LF - Ramos
CF - Lee
RF - McCray
DH - Luci/Carny/Yaz

I'd think we'd see a good amount of running.
 

calsnowskier

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100% agreed. Just pointing out the uniqueness of Ricky.

Phuking 89 series still hurts.
Literally almost killed me.

I was at a pizza place after school, and I run into a doorway that had an exit light hanging over it. The sign was dislodged and was dangling inches over my head (the corner right over my “point”).
 

calsnowskier

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What if we had a lineup next year of:

C - Bailey
1b -LWJ
2b- Fitz
SS - Kim
3b - Chap
LF - Ramos
CF - Lee
RF - McCray
DH - Luci/Carny/Yaz

I'd think we'd see a good amount of running.
Not a powerhouse lineup, but there are the beginnings of a bit of a core there…
 

LHG

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What if we had a lineup next year of:

C - Bailey
1b -LWJ
2b- Fitz
SS - Kim
3b - Chap
LF - Ramos
CF - Lee
RF - McCray
DH - Luci/Carny/Yaz

I'd think we'd see a good amount of running.
The defense improves but I'm not so sure about the offense.
 

calsnowskier

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The defense improves but I'm not so sure about the offense.
LWJ may be replaced midway through the season with a Belt+ level player. With Eldridge, Ramos and Fitz in the mid of our order, with Chappy, Lee and Kim in support spots, that approaches respectability…
 
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