2025 Draft Talk

[Screamin12th]

And he's been working behind maybe the worst OL in the NFL and one of the worst we've seen in a franchise that has put out quite a few bad ones over the last 10 years. You can't talk about Geno's play this year without acknowledging the mess that's in front of him. It absolutely matters.

Titans and NE have worse Olines. Yes ours has not been good but lets be real they have not been very good for 10 years+ Until JS and the FO spend money on the Oline and stop signing minimum dollar FA vets its not going to change. We have seen crap olines for to long now. Wilson spent his career behind a crap Oline.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes, the line is below average - but to claim that the line is issue is laughable. Geno has been horrible this year and despite 4 different starting RTs, 2 starting RGs, 2 starting Cs, Geno has done next to nothing to help out the line. Geno's playing like a poor man's Russell Wilson.

I'm sorry but I fundamentally disagree with you that Geno has been horrible.

We have one of the worst offensive lines in football when it comes to run blocking. There isn't a stat I'm aware of that would focus on inside runs but I think we are the worst team in football when it comes to inside runs.

You want to hand wave that away and say that Geno should overcome then that's on you.

None of us think that Geno is an elite QB. But he's not the problem for our offense. When it gets protection he's effective.

 

[blstoker]

I'm sorry but I fundamentally disagree with you that Geno has been horrible.

We have one of the worst offensive lines in football when it comes to run blocking. There isn't a stat I'm aware of that would focus on inside runs but I think we are the worst team in football when it comes to inside runs.

You want to hand wave that away and say that Geno should overcome then that's on you.

None of us think that Geno is an elite QB. But he's not the problem for our offense. When it gets protection he's effective.

Of course you don't agree with my assessment on Geno, you've been defending him like he's Tom Brady for three years. Yeah, you'll throw platitudes about him not being elite, but rarely, if ever, actually criticize him.

It's a pretty weak statement to make that, when he gets protection, he's effective. Nearly any starting quality QB in the NFL should be effective when given protection. That's not exactly the winning argument that you think it is, despite it not being true. Geno has a rating of 92.5 when given less than 2.5 seconds in the pocket but is at 83.4 when given more - including 9 of his 12 picks when given more than 2.5 seconds.

Geno the only problem? You are the one creating that strawman, not me. It is entirely possible that there's more than one problem with the offense. Actually, there's a lot of problems with the offense, from Geno to the inconsistent line riddled with injuries, to the play calling and the lack of a consistent run game and on and on. The issue is that Geno is A problem - and unless he can be better the offense won't get better.

 

[JMR]

But is this really true? We talk about how bad this line is, but Geno has been given solid time throughout the season. Kansas City's line is considered one of the best in the league, but Geno is given more time to throw than Mahomes is. In 500+ passing snaps this season, the line has been average to slightly above average in the league this year in pass pro. Fans rip the line for Geno's shortcomings, but eventually he has to take the criticism for his terrible decisions.

I dunno -- OLs are fairly tough to grade with numbers. But Geno is given more time to throw than Mahomes, or does Geno just take longer to do it? I think there is a difference. I just don't know how anyone can watch these games and not conclude the main problem on this team is the OL. We can't run a lick.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes, the line is below average - but to claim that the line is issue is laughable. Geno has been horrible this year and despite 4 different starting RTs, 2 starting RGs, 2 starting Cs, Geno has done next to nothing to help out the line. Geno's playing like a poor man's Russell Wilson.

How is Geno hurting the running game?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Geno IMO will never be a great QB... he just makes too many mistakes while trying to do too much.

Now, he kind of has to because the running game is abysmal right now in Seattle. Grubb doesn't seem to understand what playaction is (although would it really matter because we can't run well?), we're bottom 5 in rushing yards per attempt (with two 2nd round RBs and one that should've gotten OROY), and this ridiculous no huddle and then look over to the sideline is absolutely assinine. The running playcalls are EXTREMELY vanilla and don't fool really any defense.

All said, I'd like to find another solution at QB because Geno IMO is not a long term answer and IMO he's not anywhere near worth $40-50M+ a year on an extension, but there's obvious issues with the offensive coaching and OL that I can't fault him for. Sadly, this isn't really the draft to move on and it's pretty obvious we wouldn't have been drafting a guy like Archie Manning if he was a year older anyway (we're 12 games in and leading a division lol, at least for now).

Maybe you take a flyer on a QB in the 3rd round or see if Howell takes over? Our cap situation is shit in 2025 to boot, so I really don't understand why we'd move on from Geno unless you want to spend big on the OL and make Howell a complete game manager. If the focus of this team is going to be the D, then you need to get back to a run game (Mac has been talking about this ALL season in press conferences, apparently Grubb is just not aligned?) and not allow the worst special teams performance I've seen in my life.

 

[blstoker]

How is Geno hurting the running game?

 

[MrS]

allar getting a lot of love after last nights game, i think he will go a lot higher than expected unfortunately for us.

 

[flyerhawk]

Of course you don't agree with my assessment on Geno, you've been defending him like he's Tom Brady for three years. Yeah, you'll throw platitudes about him not being elite, but rarely, if ever, actually criticize him.

I expect this sort of ridiculous hyperbole from Screamin. Not from you. At no point have I EVER said that Geno was a top 10 QB much less equated him to Tom Brady. I criticize him for his bad plays. I don't criticize him for things he's not responsible for.

It's a pretty weak statement to make that, when he gets protection, he's effective. Nearly any starting quality QB in the NFL should be effective when given protection. That's not exactly the winning argument that you think it is, despite it not being true. Geno has a rating of 92.5 when given less than 2.5 seconds in the pocket but is at 83.4 when given more - including 9 of his 12 picks when given more than 2.5 seconds.

Most of this picks have been when he's out of the pocket. You know that those plays also count against his time to throw, right? You are doing the same thing Screamin does. Cherry picking a stat.

Here are some other stats for you.

Geno is 14th in the league in time in the pocket.
Geno is 2nd in the league in pass attempts.
Geno is 14th in the league in poor passes.
Geno is 3rd in the league in sacks.

Geno the only problem? You are the one creating that strawman, not me. It is entirely possible that there's more than one problem with the offense. Actually, there's a lot of problems with the offense, from Geno to the inconsistent line riddled with injuries, to the play calling and the lack of a consistent run game and on and on. The issue is that Geno is A problem - and unless he can be better the offense won't get better.

Absolutely NO ONE is suggesting that Geno is flawless. Hell no one is even suggesting that he's been very good. But he is NOT the main reason why this team is struggling. But you give away your bias when you say that he's horrible but our offensive line and running games have been merely inconsistent.

The offensive line has not been inconsistent. It's been straight up bad. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the running game. We are 29th in rushing yards per game and in yards per carry. Those numbers would be even worse if not for Geno's running stats. Those numbers are even worse when we talk about early down running and short yardage.

The Seahawks fail to get 2 yards on 8 tries at the goalline and the fans, of course, blame Geno and not the offensive line or running game.


Geno makes 1 to 2 boneheaded plays a game. He has average, at best, field vision. He is a slightly above league average QB. But Seahawks fans have become completely irrational about him and want to pretend that he's what is holding this team back. That's simply not an accurate statement. The defense was straight up bad for half the season. It's not a coincidence that the team won the last 3 games right as the defense started playing significantly better.

But ultimately it is our offensive line that is holding us back. In particular, the interior line has been really bad.

I think the Hawks need to draft a QB early in the draft and probably keep Geno for a year or 2 while that player develops. They also need to spend draft capital and money to fix the OL.

But I'm not going to ignore the big flaws and focus solely on Geno being the problem to the point of absurdity. Which the fans demanding that we start Howell are doing.

 

[flyerhawk]

Geno IMO will never be a great QB... he just makes too many mistakes while trying to do too much.

Now, he kind of has to because the running game is abysmal right now in Seattle. Grubb doesn't seem to understand what playaction is (although would it really matter because we can't run well?), we're bottom 5 in rushing yards per attempt (with two 2nd round RBs and one that should've gotten OROY), and this ridiculous no huddle and then look over to the sideline is absolutely assinine. The running playcalls are EXTREMELY vanilla and don't fool really any defense.

I'm guessing that Grubb doesn't call a lot of playactions because we have not been very good at them..


You really think the problem with our running game is scheme?

All said, I'd like to find another solution at QB because Geno IMO is not a long term answer and IMO he's not anywhere near worth $40-50M+ a year on an extension, but there's obvious issues with the offensive coaching and OL that I can't fault him for. Sadly, this isn't really the draft to move on and it's pretty obvious we wouldn't have been drafting a guy like Archie Manning if he was a year older anyway (we're 12 games in and leading a division lol, at least for now).

We aren't going to pay Geno anywhere close to $40 million. We will probably restructure him to keep him around for 2 more years, maybe 3.

Maybe you take a flyer on a QB in the 3rd round or see if Howell takes over? Our cap situation is shit in 2025 to boot, so I really don't understand why we'd move on from Geno unless you want to spend big on the OL and make Howell a complete game manager. If the focus of this team is going to be the D, then you need to get back to a run game (Mac has been talking about this ALL season in press conferences, apparently Grubb is just not aligned?) and not allow the worst special teams performance I've seen in my life.

I doubt we completely move on from Geno. If we do then we have a lot more faith in Howell than we've shown so far.

 

[blstoker]

I expect this sort of ridiculous hyperbole from Screamin. Not from you. At no point have I EVER said that Geno was a top 10 QB much less equated him to Tom Brady. I criticize him for his bad plays. I don't criticize him for things he's not responsible for.

Spare me your self-righteous indignation. It was a fair statement. You've attacked any criticism of Geno outside a game thread (and most inside one as well) for three years.

Most of this picks have been when he's out of the pocket. You know that those plays also count against his time to throw, right? You are doing the same thing Screamin does. Cherry picking a stat.

1st, that's not how the time to throw stat works, since the stat is based on when the pass is thrown or the QB is pressured, so the only way an outside the pocket throw affects that stat making it longer is if the QB leaves the pocket without pressure - which happens, but I don't think that is what you meant by "counts against his time to throw". And most of those picks have been unforced errors that a 10 year veteran shouldn't be making - especially the ones down in the scoring area.

The offensive line has not been inconsistent. It's been straight up bad. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the running game. We are 29th in rushing yards per game and in yards per carry. Those numbers would be even worse if not for Geno's running stats. Those numbers are even worse when we talk about early down running and short yardage.

Agreed, the line hasn't run blocked very well, and it's been made even harder by Grubb who hasn't done a good enough job disguising the run in any way. This is where I really feel for Geno and the offense. When the team is under center, the Seahawks run the ball 75% of the time. Hell, last week, the second play from scrimmage is a prime example. 2 TEs, Jake Bobo and under center. The Jets blitzed the hell out of that run and Walker didn't stand a chance.

Now, it's not like they can't run the ball, they're shown to be fairly competent in the second half of games where they average 4.5 ypc. All three primary ball carriers (Geno, Walker and Charbs) are better in the second half of games this year. Personally, this is a game planning issue and this waiting to see what the defense is going to do against the run before deploying a plan is old.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

But ultimately it is our offensive line that is holding us back. In particular, the interior line has been really bad.

I agree that the OL is basically been blowing up plays by whiffing blocks getting very little push on run plays and actual get pushed backwards.

I think the Hawks need to draft a QB early in the draft

Oh lord no. Now you want the Seahawks to draft a QB early? Now that the in coming QB class stinks? I been pounding the table to draft a QB early and even move up to draft a QB when the QB crop was loaded with talent. It would be so JS like to wait until the QB class stinks to finally spend some early draft capitol on the QB position. Now before you say you were not against drafting a QB just against moving up, I want to say not be willing to move up to grab a QB when that is the only way to land one that is potentially your QB of the future, isn't much different then not wanting the team to draft a QB in practical terms.

keep Geno for a year or 2

Think it may be necessary. Got to show some improvement next season or the whole team top to bottom likely gets blown up. Geno is likely the best choice despite being at best..... streaky. Sam Howell would likely get everyone fired and a rookie from this piss poor class is likely a wasted pick. I find it odd that for years a segment of the fan base wanted to pass on drafting a QB early or moving up for one, now (when the draft class stinks) are advocating to burn a early pick reaching for a QB out of need.

I feel the Seahawks are heading in the right direction, unfortunately the area's of need are really weak in this years draft class (OL and QB) so going take some real luck or some real good moves to keep going in the right direction.

 

[flyerhawk]

Spare me your self-righteous indignation. It was a fair statement. You've attacked any criticism of Geno outside a game thread (and most inside one as well) for three years.

Well that isn't true. But even if it were, how does that mean that I'm comparing him to Tom Brady? I go after Screamin because he's irrational about Geno. Just as I go after shark when he's calling to fire all of our coaches everytime something bad happens. Of course Shark takes it in stride and acknowledges what he's doing.

1st, that's not how the time to throw stat works, since the stat is based on when the pass is thrown or the QB is pressured, so the only way an outside the pocket throw affects that stat making it longer is if the QB leaves the pocket without pressure - which happens, but I don't think that is what you meant by "counts against his time to throw". And most of those picks have been unforced errors that a 10 year veteran shouldn't be making - especially the ones down in the scoring area.

I agree that most of his picks are just bad decisions. No question about that. He forces the ball too often.

Agreed, the line hasn't run blocked very well, and it's been made even harder by Grubb who hasn't done a good enough job disguising the run in any way. This is where I really feel for Geno and the offense. When the team is under center, the Seahawks run the ball 75% of the time. Hell, last week, the second play from scrimmage is a prime example. 2 TEs, Jake Bobo and under center. The Jets blitzed the hell out of that run and Walker didn't stand a chance.

I think Grubb hasn't figure out the optimal formations for Geno yet. I don't think Geno likes passing from under center.

But our early down running plays, which are usually expected run plays and are about effectively pushing the defense back, are really bad. I'm not sure if it is still true but we had the WORST 3rd and distance average in the league at least until a few weeks ago. Consistently dealing with 3rd and long is a recipe for disaster for most QBs.

Now, it's not like they can't run the ball, they're shown to be fairly competent in the second half of games where they average 4.5 ypc. All three primary ball carriers (Geno, Walker and Charbs) are better in the second half of games this year. Personally, this is a game planning issue and this waiting to see what the defense is going to do against the run before deploying a plan is old.

They have improved in the 2nd half. But you can't just give up the 1st half in hopes that your defense will keep it tight until your offense starts to get its shit together.

 

[flyerhawk]

Oh lord no. Now you want the Seahawks to draft a QB early? Now that the in coming QB class stinks? I been pounding the table to draft a QB early and even move up to draft a QB when the QB crop was loaded with talent. It would be so JS like to wait until the QB class stinks to finally spend some early draft capitol on the QB position. Now before you say you were not against drafting a QB just against moving up, I want to say not be willing to move up to grab a QB when that is the only way to land one that is potentially your QB of the future, isn't much different then not wanting the team to draft a QB in practical terms.

I was perfectly fine with drafting a QB the past 2 seasons. What I opposed was giving up the farm to trade up and draft a QB. It hurts the team too much. 2 years ago, the only QB available for us to take was Will Levis who has been decidedly average. Last year there were 6 QBs taken before we drafted.

Think it may be necessary. Got to show some improvement next season or the whole team top to bottom likely gets blown up. Geno is likely the best choice despite being at best..... streaky. Sam Howell would likely get everyone fired and a rookie from this piss poor class is likely a wasted pick. I find it odd that for years a segment of the fan base wanted to pass on drafting a QB early or moving up for one, now (when the draft class stinks) are advocating to burn a early pick reaching for a QB out of need.

I feel the Seahawks are heading in the right direction, unfortunately the area's of need are really weak in this years draft class (OL and QB) so going take some real luck or some real good moves to keep going in the right direction.

To be clear, I don't want us to draft a QB in the first round just to draft a QB. But I do think that we will need to either decide whether Howell can be the guy or pick someone in the draft to develop.

 

[blstoker]

The Seahawks fail to get 2 yards on 8 tries at the goalline and the fans, of course, blame Geno and not the offensive line or running game.

Did Geno, or did Geno not, completely miss a wide open Fant in the end zone three plays before the "boneheaded" sack? Granted, I will agree the line's issues with run block are heightened in short yardage situations, which may or may not explain why there were 5 pass calls to 3 run calls in the stretch mentioned. Grubb has shown a significant reluctance at times to run the ball, even when the running game is apparently working, so one cannot be sure if the lack of running plays was lack of trust in the offensive line, or if it was just Grubb being pass heavy.

Geno makes 1 to 2 boneheaded plays a game. He has average, at best, field vision. He is a slightly above league average QB. But Seahawks fans have become completely irrational about him and want to pretend that he's what is holding this team back. That's simply not an accurate statement. The defense was straight up bad for half the season. It's not a coincidence that the team won the last 3 games right as the defense started playing significantly better.

If you read my analysis, I feel that Geno is an average starting caliber QB. The thing that separates Geno from other QBs in the "average" area is his ability to be clutch - which he has shown he can do, repeatedly. I'd say he makes more than 1 to 2 boneheaded plays a game, but that's just a quibble. He's indecisive a lot and if he didn't have one of the best WR corps in the league would he be as successful as he is?

But I'm not going to ignore the big flaws and focus solely on Geno being the problem to the point of absurdity. Which the fans demanding that we start Howell are doing.

Have I actually done that, or has your instant hackle rising reaction to criticism of Geno impose that view on me? I haven't said the Hawks have a good line, and even in my statement that their inconsistent, I'm not saying their good - I'm just not describing them with the words you want. Yes, they've been blown up too often, but they've also opened huge gaping holes time after time (usually in second halves of games) for running back to rack up big runs, even up the middle.

I haven't advocated to start Howell. I can't think of a single time I have thought Geno should be benched, or even less likely - would. Unless Seattle loses to the point that they are eliminated from playoff contention before the final games of the season, I won't advocate for Howell and even then its more to see if the team actually could move on from Geno next season with a cheaper option. I don't think Howell will solve all the woes the offense has.

It is possible to discuss a single topic without having to caveat every exterior factor to it. Geno has been bad at times this year and has been getting worse as the season progresses. He's been a good band aid, better than I expected when he took over in 2022. I can say Geno has been bad without believing the line is good, especially the guards. The issue is that you and Screamin have been arguing this topic like 2 Sharks arguing opposite sides of the Cody Barton debate (I'll let you decide which is the evil twin). I can believe that Geno needs to play better while also believing the line needs to play better, and that Walker needs to play better and that DK needs to play better. But if I have to include a breakdown of the entire offense every time I want to lay criticism at the feet of a performance, then posting would become stale and everyone would stop reading the posts long before I could ever come to my point.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'm guessing that Grubb doesn't call a lot of playactions because we have not been very good at them..

Agreed, as I also said, it doesn't help we can't run the ball great.

You really think the problem with our running game is scheme?

To some extent, yes. Smashing a guy like Walker up the middle twice in a row on 1 yard situations with that dumbass jumbo formation is quite possibly the dumbest shit I've seen this season.

 

[flyerhawk]

Did Geno, or did Geno not, completely miss a wide open Fant in the end zone three plays before the "boneheaded" sack? Granted, I will agree the line's issues with run block are heightened in short yardage situations, which may or may not explain why there were 5 pass calls to 3 run calls in the stretch mentioned. Grubb has shown a significant reluctance at times to run the ball, even when the running game is apparently working, so one cannot be sure if the lack of running plays was lack of trust in the offensive line, or if it was just Grubb being pass heavy.

We haven't shown any ability to run in short yardage situations. That really hurts your offense. Look at the Lions who chose to go for it on 4th and 1 instead of kicking a field goal with 50 seconds left to take the lead. You can only have that sort of attitude when you are confident your offense will get you that yard. NO WAY the Seahawks make that call.

If you read my analysis, I feel that Geno is an average starting caliber QB. The thing that separates Geno from other QBs in the "average" area is his ability to be clutch - which he has shown he can do, repeatedly. I'd say he makes more than 1 to 2 boneheaded plays a game, but that's just a quibble. He's indecisive a lot and if he didn't have one of the best WR corps in the league would he be as successful as he is?

That is a perfectly good description of Geno.

Have I actually done that, or has your instant hackle rising reaction to criticism of Geno impose that view on me? I haven't said the Hawks have a good line, and even in my statement that their inconsistent, I'm not saying their good - I'm just not describing them with the words you want. Yes, they've been blown up too often, but they've also opened huge gaping holes time after time (usually in second halves of games) for running back to rack up big runs, even up the middle.

What I responded to was your comment "but to claim that the line is issue is laughable. Geno has been horrible this year and despite 4 different starting RTs, 2 starting RGs, 2 starting Cs, Geno has done next to nothing to help out the line. Geno's playing like a poor man's Russell Wilson."

Geno has NOT been horrible. He's playing pretty much as I think most of us expect to him at this point. Inconsistent, sometimes indecisive, sometimes boneheaded, and surprisingly good in crunch time.

I haven't advocated to start Howell. I can't think of a single time I have thought Geno should be benched, or even less likely - would. Unless Seattle loses to the point that they are eliminated from playoff contention before the final games of the season, I won't advocate for Howell and even then its more to see if the team actually could move on from Geno.

I wasn't trying to say that you were saying that. Screamin says that a lot. My view on starting Howell is pretty much in line with what you described here.

It is possible to discuss a single topic without having to caveat every exterior factor to it. Geno has been bad this year and has been getting worse as the season progresses. He's been a good band aid, better than I expected when he took over in 2022. I can say Geno has been bad without believing the line is good, especially the guards. The issue is that you and Screamin have been arguing this topic like 2 Sharks arguing opposite sides of the Cody Barton debate (I'll let you decide which is the evil twin). I can believe that Geno needs to play better while also believing the line needs to play better, and that Walker needs to play better and that DK needs to play better. But if I have to include a breakdown of the entire offense every time I want to lay criticism at the feet of a performance, then posting would become stale and everyone would stop reading the posts long before I could ever come to my point.

I'm perfectly fine with saying that Geno needs to play better. Where I disagree is when fans become irrational about it and start obsessing about his play and ignoring the play of the rest of the team.

Replace Geno Smith with Joe Burrow and which games do you think we would have won that we didn't?

 

[flyerhawk]

Agreed, as I also said, it doesn't help we can't run the ball great.



To some extent, yes. Smashing a guy like Walker up the middle twice in a row on 1 yard situations with that dumbass jumbo formation is quite possibly the dumbest shit I've seen this season.

Maybe. But it's not like Charbs has been any better. Do we just give up on inside runs?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Maybe. But it's not like Charbs has been any better. Do we just give up on inside runs?

No... I didn't say that. But everytime we call that stupid ass jumbo formation we run Walker RIGHT up the middle (which admittedly is not really his strength)... call SOMETHING else. And if you've already made up your mind you're going for it on 4th down, maybe do a playaction? Or QB sneak? Or Screen? HELL SOMETHING other than HB dive which every team in the NFL seems to stuff no problem.

 

[flyerhawk]

One thing I would like to point out is the play of Russell Wilson. Everyone said he was cooked because his game relied on his legs and he couldn't run anymore. They said that he made the OL look bad. But then he starts playing for a competent OL with a very good D and he looks night and day better.

QB is the most important single position in football. But too many fans tend to dismiss the importance of the rest of the team and think that a QB can turn around a team on his own.