2023 offseason thread

[DJ Fieri]

Let’s see what he does after trading ayton

If they trade Ayton....I have seen several guys mention they think Vogel will keep him because he likes having a big.

 

[DJ Fieri]

And without ping pong balls pop would’ve been fired before we heard of y2k

Meh....

 

[shopson67]

Meh....

Do you think he wins anything without Duncan? Or stays with the Spurs indefinitely without those championships?

 

[DJ Fieri]

Do you think he wins anything without Duncan? Or stays with the Spurs indefinitely without those championships?

I don't buy into the conspiracy about the draft that @The Q subscribes to.

 

[DJ Fieri]

The draft needs to get here....I want to see what the Lakers do.

 

[shopson67]

I don't buy into the conspiracy about the draft that @The Q subscribes to.

Conspiracy doesn't have to be a part of it. Without winning Duncan (legit or not), he's likely a journeyman coach.

 

[trojanfan12]

Try meaning spend? There are other ways to build a team without rocketing into the penalties. This is supposed to be a league with all teams on even financial standing, not a battle to see who can best overspend their way to championships. A balanced league with stars spread throughout is best for the league as a whole.

That's great in theory, but it's not reality.

Reality is that some owners prize profit over winning.

That's why, when it comes to salaries, there is not only a "cap", but also a "floor".

We've seen some owners have to virtually be forced to spend.

Imo, owners who put winning over profits should be rewarded, not punished.

Heck, even teams that have built their team by drafting well and developing their players eventually get punished when they have to start letting some of those players go because they can't pay them anymore.

 

[DJ Fieri]

That's great in theory, but it's not reality.

Reality is that some owners prize profit over winning.

That's why, when it comes to salaries, there is not only a "cap", but also a "floor".

We've seen some owners have to virtually be forced to spend.

Imo, owners who put winning over profits should be rewarded, not punished.

Heck, even teams that have built their team by drafting well and developing their players eventually get punished when they have to start letting some of those players go because they can't pay them anymore.

MJ LOVED profiting off Charlotte....made a mint off owning them. They didn't do a lot of winning.

 

[The Q]

Conspiracy doesn't have to be a part of it. Without winning Duncan (legit or not), he's likely a journeyman coach.

This.

100% this

 

[The Q]

Do you think he wins anything without Duncan? Or stays with the Spurs indefinitely without those championships?

Nothing

He was about to get fired in the late 90s if they lost one more game

 

[The Q]

If they trade Ayton....I have seen several guys mention they think Vogel will keep him because he likes having a big.

He is the only way they can add more depth

They need to be after every g league star to give them a real shot at pt on a contender

 

[trojanfan12]

They gutted his team two years after that 'ship with the Westbrook trade and then fired him. That was the beginning of the curse it seems.

Yep, they not only gutted the team, but the guy they gutted it for was a guy that the coach made clear he didn't want.

Vogel deserved to be fired because as the head coach, his job was to coach the roster he was given to the best of his ability and he didn't do that.

But the Lakers essentially undermined him by bringing in a guy that everyone, including Vogel, told them was a bad fit.

 

[shopson67]

That's great in theory, but it's not reality.

Reality is that some owners prize profit over winning.

That's why, when it comes to salaries, there is not only a "cap", but also a "floor".

We've seen some owners have to virtually be forced to spend.

Imo, owners who put winning over profits should be rewarded, not punished.

Heck, even teams that have built their team by drafting well and developing their players eventually get punished when they have to start letting some of those players go because they can't pay them anymore.

There needs to be some protection from market size impacting the team's ability to compete. That floor also works to keep teams from gutting and tanking (or pretends to, as teams can just give their current roster bonuses to get to that floor).

As far as penalizing teams for drafting well, we can complain about that when we actually see it. The Warriors are sort of an example, but they also have an undeserved Poole contract that is taking them just over that 2nd tax apron to $183M for their homegrown players (and that will likely come down a bit when Dray is re-signed for less than his cap hold). Wiggins/Payton/DiVincenzo drive that team salary into the stratosphere.

 

[trojanfan12]

MJ LOVED profiting off Charlotte....made a mint off owning them. They didn't do a lot of winning.

Yep, look at the Clippers when Donald Sterling owned them. Every time they had a decent team, it was broken up quickly. They had a lot of high draft picks who didn't last beyond their 2nd contract because Sterling didn't want to pay them.

 

[shopson67]

MJ LOVED profiting off Charlotte....made a mint off owning them. They didn't do a lot of winning.

That wasn't necessarily for a lack of trying, but a lack of quality leadership.

MJ will still have an ownership stake btw.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Yep, look at the Clippers when Donald Sterling owned them. Every time they had a decent team, it was broken up quickly. They had a lot of high draft picks who didn't last beyond their 2nd contract because Sterling didn't want to pay them.

Yep

 

[DJ Fieri]

will still have an ownership stake btw.

I know.

 

[trojanfan12]

There needs to be some protection from market size impacting the team's ability to compete. That floor also works to keep teams from gutting and tanking (or pretends to, as teams can just give their current roster bonuses to get to that floor).

As far as penalizing teams for drafting well, we can complain about that when we actually see it. The Warriors are sort of an example, but they also have an undeserved Poole contract that is taking them just over that 2nd tax apron to $183M for their homegrown players (and that will likely come down a bit when Dray is re-signed for less than his cap hold). Wiggins/Payton/DiVincenzo drive that team salary into the stratosphere.

If the size of the market is the problem...move the team.

As for tanking and gutting a team, that shouldn't even be something that the league should be addressing unless it turns into a situation like we saw with the Clippers under Sterling.

Teams like the Sixers with their "Process" or OKC who has used tanking to put together what looks to be an exciting, fun young team should not be punished because in both cases there was a clear plan to get better.

Also, if it's about protecting smaller market teams, why is the CBA set up so that OKC will be forced to let some of the talent they drafted and developed go because they are coming off of their rookie deals?

It seems like the league is set up for "poorer" teams to draft and develop players only to have "richer" teams poach that talent when the time comes for them to get their "bag".

 

[DJ Fieri]

He is the only way they can add more depth

They need to be after every g league star to give them a real shot at pt on a contender

KD and co will be recruiting every vet they know to take the minimum....esp some defensive players since they need those....

 

[The Q]

Draft Rumors: Pelicans, Blazers, Pistons, Jazz, Wizards, Bufkin, Raptors, More

The chatter about the possibility of the Pelicans moving into the top three of Thursday's draft to select Scoot Henderson …

www.hoopsrumors.com

Really curious if they mean the new owners don’t want to pay brides and he hits UFA

That would be a game changer

Hou and indy should be all over that