2022-23 Flyers: How about just less suck?

[lasgop8]

Moving on though. Based on points/60 from the article, this kind of shows the issue that the Flyers have. There a lots of holes there to becoming a 'high end' team. Probably need 6 top 9 forwards to get to cup contender level. Couturier and Atkinson fill 2 of those roles, TBD what level they fill.

1st line
Need player
Need player
TK - mid tier 1st liner

2nd line
Frost - high end 2nd liner
Tippett - mid-tier 2nd liner
Need player

3rd line
Hayes - low end 2nd liner (likely gone this summer)
Farabee - low end 2nd liner
JvR - high end 3rd liner (gone this summer)

4th line
Cates - high end 4th liner
Laughton - mid tier 4th liner
Allison - low end 4th liner

Scratch
Deslauriers - sub-4th liner

I agree with this which is why we need a 3-5 years to get back to relevancy. One thing i dont agree is Frost. Id say he is between high end third liner to mid tier 2nd liner.

 

[awaz]

I agree with this which is why we need a 3-5 years to get back to relevancy. One thing i dont agree is Frost. Id say he is between high end third liner to mid tier 2nd liner.

I agree. I was pretty surprised he produced at that level. I think if you're competing for a cup you probably want 2 C's that are more dynamic than he is. Or you're just loaded on the wings.

And maybe the Flyers get some bounce from these guys. Like Farabee could probably climb in to the 2nd line on a contender. Maybe Frost does too. Allison maybe gets to 3rd liner level. Laughton is probably more valuable as a swiss army knife that can be a great 3rd wheel to two more talented guys higher up the lineup.

But they're essentially missing the core of the team. Quite a few depth/role player guys, even good ones. But missing the core. I look at as if the Flyers are down in the 3rd period, what group of players do they have they can throw out there where you'd expect them to dominate a shift and create scoring chances, if not goals. I don't really think they have that. Scoring chances are nice when they happen, but not expected on any given shift. Even with Couturier at 100%, they don't have that IMO. He'll push play in the right direction and they'll spend more time in the offensive zone, but he's not a chance creating dynamo.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

I agree. I was pretty surprised he produced at that level. I think if you're competing for a cup you probably want 2 C's that are more dynamic than he is. Or you're just loaded on the wings.

And maybe the Flyers get some bounce from these guys. Like Farabee could probably climb in to the 2nd line on a contender. Maybe Frost does too. Allison maybe gets to 3rd liner level. Laughton is probably more valuable as a swiss army knife that can be a great 3rd wheel to two more talented guys higher up the lineup.

But they're essentially missing the core of the team. Quite a few depth/role player guys, even good ones. But missing the core. I look at as if the Flyers are down in the 3rd period, what group of players do they have they can throw out there where you'd expect them to dominate a shift and create scoring chances, if not goals. I don't really think they have that. Scoring chances are nice when they happen, but not expected on any given shift. Even with Couturier at 100%, they don't have that IMO. He'll push play in the right direction and they'll spend more time in the offensive zone, but he's not a chance creating dynamo.

We need to add at least a solid blue line DMan, and a solid sniper, like you said, we don't have anyone who is remotely close to a chance creating dynamo. We will win a lot of close defensive games with this squad under Torts, what makes the good teams are the ones who can win defensive games because they still have an offensive threat.

 

[awaz]

Oliver Moore is the 2023 NHL Draft prospect who makes fast players look slow

Moore could be a top-10 pick in the 2023 NHL Draft, with "God-given" speed and athleticism currently on display at the 2023 U18 worlds.

theathletic.com

Basically talks about how he might be the best skater in hockey, NHL included. Also a great leader and extremely dedicated to improving.

I really like him if the Flyers don't win the lottery. Also seems like a likely Flahr pick given the Minnesota connections.

 

[awaz]

Zach Benson, Sabres' draft pick at No. 13, can do it all

With his 90s-style mullet and mischievous grin, Benson sets himself apart both on and off the ice.

theathletic.com

"When people show up to watch him play, they’re wowed by his moves, a lot like Aidelbaum and her clients are. But they’re usually surprised when the small, ultra-talented winger is also the game’s best defensive forward, or hardest worker, with an energy on the ice that matches his spirit off of it."

Other guy I like.

 

[lasgop8]

I agree. I was pretty surprised he produced at that level. I think if you're competing for a cup you probably want 2 C's that are more dynamic than he is. Or you're just loaded on the wings.

And maybe the Flyers get some bounce from these guys. Like Farabee could probably climb in to the 2nd line on a contender. Maybe Frost does too. Allison maybe gets to 3rd liner level. Laughton is probably more valuable as a swiss army knife that can be a great 3rd wheel to two more talented guys higher up the lineup.

But they're essentially missing the core of the team. Quite a few depth/role player guys, even good ones. But missing the core. I look at as if the Flyers are down in the 3rd period, what group of players do they have they can throw out there where you'd expect them to dominate a shift and create scoring chances, if not goals. I don't really think they have that. Scoring chances are nice when they happen, but not expected on any given shift. Even with Couturier at 100%, they don't have that IMO. He'll push play in the right direction and they'll spend more time in the offensive zone, but he's not a chance creating dynamo.

The good news is we had 14 more points this year over last years team.

Going into next year we get a 7th pick to go along with the development of Gauthier.

We essentially add a first round pick in Couts and a 2nd round pick in Atkinson to the big club.

We will be adding at some point during the season young defenseman Andrae, Attard, Zamula/Ginning

We have Brink ,Foerster and Desnoyers ready to create the offensive that Cates that and Allison dont.

It is not a good situation right now but not as bad as it was a couple of years ago.

 

[purdue81]

The good news is we had 14 more points this year over last years team.

Going into next year we get a 7th pick to go along with the development of Gauthier.

We essentially add a first round pick in Couts and a 2nd round pick in Atkinson to the big club.

We will be adding at some point during the season young defenseman Andrae, Attard, Zamula/Ginning

We have Brink ,Foerster and Desnoyers ready to create the offensive that Cates that and Allison dont.

It is not a good situation right now but not as bad as it was a couple of years ago.

Are you saying WTFC improved our situation versus Hextall !?!?!?!?

 

[lasgop8]

Are you saying WTFC improved our situation versus Hextall !?!?!?!?

I dont want to say improved by much but yes we are in better position now then we were when Hextall was fired. We are better and younger. We can finally get rid of the Big Puss contract that has killed us for years and we have Tippett and Gauthier and a number 7 or better pick this year. Fletcher would've been looked at as a better GM for us if he wasn't trying to clean up the organizational killing mess he was left. Ask any Pittsburgh fan these days what they think

 

[lasgop8]

Lehigh valley lost in double OT in game 2 and the got destroyed in the final game to get themselves eliminated from playoff action. It would've been nice to advance past the first round.

 

[awaz]

I dont want to say improved by much but yes we are in better position now then we were when Hextall was fired. We are better and younger. We can finally get rid of the Big Puss contract that has killed us for years and we have Tippett and Gauthier and a number 7 or better pick this year. Fletcher would've been looked at as a better GM for us if he wasn't trying to clean up the organizational killing mess he was left. Ask any Pittsburgh fan these days what they think

Probably won't surprise anyone to know I disagree with that haha. Fletcher had high value young players (Provorov, TK, Sanheim, Ghost) that the shine hadn't worn off of yet. The Flyers finished with 98 points the season before Hextall was fired. They had all of their picks for the next 3 years. and had 5 first round picks from the previous 3 years. Couturier was coming off a near point-per-game season and in the midst of another. Giroux was a legitimate star (led the league in assists the previous year and finished 4th in Hart voting)

Briere inherits Provorov and Sanheim with tarnished reputations. A team that finished with 75 points and has cap overages for next year the cap is in such bad shape. They're missing their 2nd round picks in 2 out of the next 3 drafts (though they do have an extra 1st next year) and have 2 first round picks from the previous 3 years.

In essentially every category, Briere has it worse than Fletcher did. You can argue that Hextall's picks never really panned out like we had hoped, but Fletcher had every opportunity to move those guys for a killing when he took over, but he chose not to. For Briere, we're talking about possibly trading TK and Hart because they're the only ones that can bring back value.

You can hate Hextall all you want. Fletcher was an absolute train wreck. Hextall got fired because he couldn't take them from borderline playoff team to over the hump. Fletcher took that team and DESTROYED it.

 

[lasgop8]

Probably won't surprise anyone to know I disagree with that haha. Fletcher had high value young players (Provorov, TK, Sanheim, Ghost) that the shine hadn't worn off of yet. The Flyers finished with 98 points the season before Hextall was fired. They had all of their picks for the next 3 years. and had 5 first round picks from the previous 3 years. Couturier was coming off a near point-per-game season and in the midst of another. Giroux was a legitimate star (led the league in assists the previous year and finished 4th in Hart voting)

Briere inherits Provorov and Sanheim with tarnished reputations. A team that finished with 75 points and has cap overages for next year the cap is in such bad shape. They're missing their 2nd round picks in 2 out of the next 3 drafts (though they do have an extra 1st next year) and have 2 first round picks from the previous 3 years.

In essentially every category, Briere has it worse than Fletcher did. You can argue that Hextall's picks never really panned out like we had hoped, but Fletcher had every opportunity to move those guys for a killing when he took over, but he chose not to. For Briere, we're talking about possibly trading TK and Hart because they're the only ones that can bring back value.

You can hate Hextall all you want. Fletcher was an absolute train wreck. Hextall got fired because he couldn't take them from borderline playoff team to over the hump. Fletcher took that team and DESTROYED it.

You could hate Fletcher all you want and I could waste my time refuting every one of your points but as i see it what happened in Pittsburgh with a better situation then he had in Philly solidifies my argument.

 

[awaz]

You could hate Fletcher all you want and I could waste my time refuting every one of your points but as i see it what happened in Pittsburgh with a better situation then he had in Philly solidifies my argument.

He botched the Pens job. No question.

But I'd love to see you refute the Flyers related points. They're all facts. Nothing subjective about it.

Hextall: 98 points, 8 first round picks in the 3 years before and next 3 years. Giroux led the league in assists, 4th in Hart voting. 8.7M under the cap.
Fletcher: 75 points, 6 first round picks in the 3 years before and next 3 years. No star power. 4.2M over the cap.

Please, refute those facts.


Cap sources:

Philadelphia Flyers Salary Cap Daily Breakdown | Puckpedia

Philadelphia Flyers salary cap, contracts, cap hit, aav, trade history and salary cap projections, NHL transaction history. The best NHL salary cap hit data, daily tracking, NHL news and projections at your fingertips.

puckpedia.com

Philadelphia Flyers Salary Cap, Cap Hit, Philadelphia Flyers Contracts | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

 

[lasgop8]

He botched the Pens job. No question.

But I'd love to see you refute the Flyers related points. They're all facts. Nothing subjective about it.

Hextall: 98 points, 8 first round picks in the 3 years before and next 3 years. Giroux led the league in assists, 4th in Hart voting. 8.7M under the cap.
Fletcher: 75 points, 6 first round picks in the 3 years before and next 3 years. No star power. 4.2M over the cap.

Please, refute those facts.


Cap sources:

Philadelphia Flyers Salary Cap Daily Breakdown | Puckpedia

Philadelphia Flyers salary cap, contracts, cap hit, aav, trade history and salary cap projections, NHL transaction history. The best NHL salary cap hit data, daily tracking, NHL news and projections at your fingertips.

puckpedia.com

Philadelphia Flyers Salary Cap, Cap Hit, Philadelphia Flyers Contracts | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

Like i said i wont waste my time refuting all of your information.

Again Hextall getting fired in Pittsburgh proves everything .

 

[awaz]

Like i said i wont waste my time refuting all of your information.

Again Hextall getting fired in Pittsburgh proves everything .

You can’t refute anything, that proves everything. Hextall wasn’t successful in Philly, but he was a hell of a lot better than Fletcher.

 

[lasgop8]

You can’t refute anything, that proves everything. Hextall wasn’t successful in Philly, but he was a hell of a lot better than Fletcher.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[lasgop8]

Justin Braun officially retires so we wont be signing him again.

 

[purdue81]

Like i said i wont waste my time refuting all of your information.

Again Hextall getting fired in Pittsburgh proves everything

Who gets a job first, Hextall or Fletcher (in hockey) ?

 

[chy1127]

Who gets a job first, Hextall or Fletcher (in hockey) ?

Neither. They both stink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[awaz]

Neither. They both stink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That should be the answer. But I bet they both do. There’s only like 34 people NHL teams are willing to give GM jobs to.

 

[Maverick426h]

The trades that really killed us were paying to get rid of Ghost, acquiring Risto and then acquiring DeAngelo. We lost a 1st, three 2nd's, a 3rd, a 4th and a 7th in just those three trades (6 picks) and only acquired Risto, DeAngelo (both who have been underwhelming) and a 7th. Ghost later garnered a 3rd from Carolina, which could've been ours instead of paying to unload him.

Look at it this way. We lost well over an entire year's worth of draft picks just to acquire Risto and DeAngelo, whom everyone is now sour on.

Also, we were without well over $20 million worth of our players this season, so it's fair to say we would've done much better than a 75 point season if everyone were healthy or even close to healthy. Couturier, Atkinson and Ellis didn't play a single game. Konecny and JvR missed 43 games combined. These are largely our best players.

I really don't want to hear that we spent to the cap ceiling and finished with 75 points. That's far from true when you factor in who ACTUALLY PLAYED for us this season.