2022-23 Flyers: How about just less suck?

Retroram52 · Feb 4, 2023

awaz said:
The problem that I have is that the 10 game losing streak isn't really an aberration. They've had 3 of them in the last what, 16 months? And for two of them the team was significantly more talented (I think they had healthy Couturier/Atkinson, plus Giroux). The evidence that it was an aberration is 1 month of 10-4-2 hockey. Based on the last few years at least, it's the 10-4-2 run that looks like the aberration. Yes, Torts makes a big difference. Yes, the players are bringing a different mentality. But for me, I just don't see how they go from that 21-21-9 hockey team, to a cup contender. Can Torts squeeze enough out of this roster that they're a 7-8 seed level team on a semi-regular basis? I'll say yes. He's got them trending the right direction. But I don't see how he gets this group to cup contender status. And without some dramatic moves, the prospect/cap situation has Fletcher handcuffed to bring in difference makers.

And I'm just not a believer in "once you get in, who knows what can happen" as a plan. Over the last 8 years, the cup champ was in the top 4 in preseason odds 7 out of 8 seasons. And the top two in 4 out of 8. I'm not interested in pinning my hopes to a dark horse run like the Blues in 2019. It's like catching lightning in a bottle. They basically had one kick at the can and they happened to hit. It's not a way to build a hockey team.

2022 - Avs, preseason #1 odds
2021 - Bolts, preseason #2 odds
2020 - Bolts, preseason #1 odds
2019 - Blues, preseason #14 odds
2018 - Caps, preseason #4 odds
2017 - Pens, preseason #4 odds
2016 - Pens, preseason #4 odds
2015 - Hawks, preseason #1 odds

So, for me, the Flyers need a dramatic infusion of talent. And IMO, the best way to do that is by pruning the roster and adding draft picks and prospects. For me, I'm moving Hayes and Risto for whatever I can get, if I can get anything. I'd stop short of adding assets just to be rid of them, but if it's mid round picks or mediocre prospects coming back, I'm doing it. They're bad contracts and the Flyers need to be rid of them. Provy of course demands a good return. But from most of the reports lately, he's not looking like a part of the future culture/fit wise. So even if it's not a 'blow you away' return, I still probably move him. TK/Laughton need to be 'blow you away' returns. To me, those guys can embody what the Flyers want to build. I'll stop short of saying they're franchise cornerstones because I don't think they're talented enough for that, but unless everyone reacts in a "holy shit what a steal for the Flyers" way, I'm not moving those guys right now. But I'm hoping TK keeps it up for another 12 months so at the deadline next year he's #1 on everyone's trade board. I don't think his age/contract status lines up with the Flyers timeline, so I think you keep him as long as possible to help build the culture, but move him for a haul eventually.

THIS^^^

Maverick426h · Feb 4, 2023

awaz said:
That's where talent comes in to play though. The goal difference on a game basis is not huge between the cup contenders and the bottom feeders. The difference is, the cup contenders have the talent to come out on the right side of those close games most of the time. The ones that are missing the talent, come out on the wrong side of close games most of the time. The difference a lot of times is one killer shot. Or one killer defensive play. Typically made by those elite-level players. And the Flyers are missing them.

Next year they have 67M tied up. Including Hayes. Not including Ellis. Thats with 9 forwards, 5 dmen, and 2 goalies. Cap is supposed to be 83.5M. So they have 16.5M to spend and they need 4 forwards and 2 dmen. Tippet, Cates, Frost, and York presumably are 4 of those guys that are RFA. If those guys avg out to 2M each, you're down to 8.5M and in decent shape to sign a good player. But I think 2M each would be a heck of a job by Fletcher. Cates is playing 1st line minutes. York is playing 1st pair minutes. Tippet is scoring at a 25 goal pace. So how much further does that cut in to the space? You can move Hayes/Provorov to create some space, but that is 2 steps back for 3 steps forward if you can upgrade on them.

It just looks like long odds to me. And if they're unsuccessful, chances are they're making the rebuild worse and worse.

I really don't think our young RFA's are going to command much salary in negotiations. None of these guys have even played in one full Nhl season...Lol Cates and York are playing 2nd line/pair minutes on average, not 1st. Tippett could be a future star, but remains mostly unproven at this point. Frost is even more up in the air. He'll probably be happy just to finally have an Nhl career, regardless of salary. Either way, homegrown talent costs less than other ways of getting talent.

Yes, we're missing the talent/skill to finish in the clutch or put teams away. I know everyone is tired of hearing this, but Couturier, Atkinson and Ellis are those players!! Lol Yeah, I fucking know we're probably never getting Ellis back and may not get any of them back this season. The point is, our franchise had it covered and then the shit completely hit the fan.

I think Torts is doing an absolute fantastic job with this squad. With that in mind, I wonder what he could do with a Selke winner and a 40 goal scorer added to his team. Suddenly you're replacing your two worst players with arguably 2 of your 3 best players (I'll give Konecny the nod over Atkinson at this stage, but not Hayes). This team would be good and still have the youth getting better each and every day.

Maverick426h · Feb 4, 2023

As far as picks are concerned, we as a franchise obviously fucked up trading away the next two years of 2nd round picks. That said, we do have two extra 3rd's and an extra 4th this summer. Next year, the Giroux trade finally gives us an extra 1st.

We'll add a couple more picks via JvR and Braun at least, but we need to make them count too or start packaging them for something better.

Maverick426h · Feb 4, 2023

Would we want a guy like Timo Meier and could we build a package for him that includes the Giroux 1st rounder?

The guy is only 26 years old and on pace for 45 goals and 77 points. He wears #28 and has 28 goals to date this season...Lol

Retroram52 · Feb 4, 2023

I don't know if Meier would fit under a Torts coached team though. Conjecture at best.

lasgop8 · Feb 6, 2023

Report: Team Showing Interest in Acquiring Flyers’ Hayes

Kevin Allen is a highly respected, long-time reporter who is in the Hockey Hall of Fame for journalism excellence. So when Allen, who now works for Detroit Hockey Now and formerly wrote for USA Today, makes a claim, you listen. Allen reports that an NHL team is showing interest in the...

phillyhockeynow.com

awaz · Feb 6, 2023

lasgop8 said:
Report: Team Showing Interest in Acquiring Flyers’ Hayes

Kevin Allen is a highly respected, long-time reporter who is in the Hockey Hall of Fame for journalism excellence. So when Allen, who now works for Detroit Hockey Now and formerly wrote for USA Today, makes a claim, you listen. Allen reports that an NHL team is showing interest in the...

phillyhockeynow.com

Chris p Bacon · Feb 6, 2023

lasgop8 said:
Report: Team Showing Interest in Acquiring Flyers’ Hayes

Kevin Allen is a highly respected, long-time reporter who is in the Hockey Hall of Fame for journalism excellence. So when Allen, who now works for Detroit Hockey Now and formerly wrote for USA Today, makes a claim, you listen. Allen reports that an NHL team is showing interest in the...

phillyhockeynow.com

Read that article over the weekend, question is are we sellars at the deadline.

lasgop8 · Feb 6, 2023

This skills competition was embarrassingly bad a the all star game wasn't much better.

lasgop8 · Feb 6, 2023

Chris p Bacon said:
Read that article over the weekend, question is are we sellars at the deadline.

We have to be sellers because we dont have any cap money to add anyone. IMO JVR and Braun go, hopefully Prov/Sanheim and maybe DeAngelo. Other than that we gotta pray that Hayes gets traded.

awaz · Feb 6, 2023

lasgop8 said:
We have to be sellers because we dont have any cap money to add anyone. IMO JVR and Braun go, hopefully Prov/Sanheim and maybe DeAngelo. Other than that we gotta pray that Hayes gets traded.

Agreed. Have to be sellers. Torts knows it, does the rest of the org?

JvR/Braun, definitely. I hope to see 1 additional move beyond that that sheds salary. Something that shows the intent of the org. Heck, I'd even support buying over just doing the bare minimum of selling JvR/Braun. Commit to something Fletch!

lasgop8 · Feb 6, 2023

Cam York and Forester made the AHL all star game.

Attard took Yorks place on the Roster.

lasgop8 · Feb 6, 2023

Retroram52 said:
The difference is, lasgop8, that Provolov has long made it known in public that his faith is Russian Orthodox Christian and the dumbass, shitferbrains, woke media HATE Christians. The Rangers did what they did but did not make known their motivations for their actions. So the woke douchebags went after Provolov because he stated was a Russian Christian like they always do and they could care less if it looks hypocritical.

I wish i could put 1K likes on this post.

lasgop8 · Feb 6, 2023

Lets beat some Islander butts tonight!!!!

3-2 Flyers Lets go!!!

Maverick426h · Feb 6, 2023

Really, this amounts to an enormous game tonight if our boys have any dreams at all of getting into the playoffs this season.

I'm looking forward to it.

Chris p Bacon · Feb 7, 2023

lasgop8 said:
Lets beat some Islander butts tonight!!!!

3-2 Flyers Lets go!!!

Well you got the 2 part right lol.

lasgop8 · Feb 7, 2023

Chris p Bacon said:
Well you got the 2 part right lol.

Dammit our defensive zone play was the worst ive seen it all year. So much standing around and watching. The Isles second goal was just embarrassing. Five guys standing around might as well have bought a ticket. This was a big 4 point swing.