2022-23 Flyers: How about just less suck?

[Chris p Bacon]

Im not an expert either im just going by what i have been reading . From what ive been reading even if we eat 50% of JVRs salary we maybe get a 3rd rounder a bump from a 4th or 5th because we took on salary He is not even listed in the top 15 best trade pieces on most people trade boards.

I'm far from an expert on the Wild or Greenway. Just seems to me that a guy playing limited minutes and getting healthy scratched (reportedly for attitude problems), but has 2.5 years at 3M left on his deal, would be someone they'd be trying to get rid of. There's a chance the Wild would be in 'pay to get rid of him' mode. I could be wrong though.

My thought process was JvR @ 50% could get a 3rd or 4th rounder. But by taking on that additional salary, the Flyers could eek out a 2nd. Cap space/flexibility is one of the most valuable commodities in the league right now.

And that's just an example. Really I'd be looking for a team that wants JvR and wants to get rid of a 3-5M contract that goes for 1 or 2 more seasons. If they can find that team, I think that will net the Flyers the best return.

I've read the same thing Last has on JVR. I think Awaz is right about that deal though. The big deal is what will Carolina give up to fill the Paciroity hole. Wonder if they go Laughton or Hayes. I would rather have the big haul myself and build off of that and what has been accomplished this season.

 

[lasgop8]

I've read the same thing Last has on JVR. I think Awaz is right about that deal though. The big deal is what will Carolina give up to fill the Paciroity hole. Wonder if they go Laughton or Hayes. I would rather have the big haul myself and build off of that and what has been accomplished this season.

I hope we get the biggest haul for every player we give up but i think we only get big hauls for players like Prov/Sanheim and DeAngelo if we even make him available.

 

[lasgop8]

I have a question. The whole Ranger team chose not wear their pride jerseys and rainbow taped sticks the other night. Why haven't we heard a peep about that and when Prov decided to skip warm ups it was a so called national disgrace according to all media outlets that covers hockey?

 

[awaz]

Im not an expert either im just going by what i have been reading . From what ive been reading even if we eat 50% of JVRs salary we maybe get a 3rd rounder a bump from a 4th or 5th because we took on salary He is not even listed in the top 15 best trade pieces on most people trade boards.

Oh I agree with your valuations. I'm saying the additional bump to a 2nd comes from taking on a 'bad salary' from another team. I was hypothesizing that maybe the Wild see Greenway as a 'bad salary' in my example.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

I have a question. The whole Ranger team chose not wear their pride jerseys and rainbow taped sticks the other night. Why haven't we heard a peep about that and when Prov decided to skip warm ups it was a so called national disgrace according to all media outlets that covers hockey?

Well I guess they didn't get their desired outrage for Provy, so they figured it wasn't worth them crying again. Was great for jersey sales though.

 

[lasgop8]

Oh I agree with your valuations. I'm saying the additional bump to a 2nd comes from taking on a 'bad salary' from another team. I was hypothesizing that maybe the Wild see Greenway as a 'bad salary' in my example.

I agree ,If we could get Greenway and a 2nd rounder for JVR i will be dancing in the streets. Last season Greenway had 27 points and was a plus 26 in 61 games. He would fit in perfectly into McEwens spot and a 2nd rounder to boot that would be a steal for us.

 

[awaz]

Lol Some of you want to trade the whole damn team away. That's just not a realistic move, sorry. Sure, trading away expiring contracts makes sense and also anyone making north of $6 million per season for the right price, but that amounts to 5 players at the absolute most, not the whole fucking squad.

If I'm trading away Hayes, Provy or Risto, I'm not just giving them away either. If these guys are worth more to us than anyone else, then so be it.

Again, it's not like we're playing poorly with this group. I think it's fair to say that the 10 game losing streak earlier this season is a total aberration instead of the norm. To scratch and crawl back to 21-21-9 after that is pretty unreal, but let's see what we can do here in the next 11 games before the trade deadline or before we start ripping this team to shreds.

The problem that I have is that the 10 game losing streak isn't really an aberration. They've had 3 of them in the last what, 16 months? And for two of them the team was significantly more talented (I think they had healthy Couturier/Atkinson, plus Giroux). The evidence that it was an aberration is 1 month of 10-4-2 hockey. Based on the last few years at least, it's the 10-4-2 run that looks like the aberration. Yes, Torts makes a big difference. Yes, the players are bringing a different mentality. But for me, I just don't see how they go from that 21-21-9 hockey team, to a cup contender. Can Torts squeeze enough out of this roster that they're a 7-8 seed level team on a semi-regular basis? I'll say yes. He's got them trending the right direction. But I don't see how he gets this group to cup contender status. And without some dramatic moves, the prospect/cap situation has Fletcher handcuffed to bring in difference makers.

And I'm just not a believer in "once you get in, who knows what can happen" as a plan. Over the last 8 years, the cup champ was in the top 4 in preseason odds 7 out of 8 seasons. And the top two in 4 out of 8. I'm not interested in pinning my hopes to a dark horse run like the Blues in 2019. It's like catching lightning in a bottle. They basically had one kick at the can and they happened to hit. It's not a way to build a hockey team.

2022 - Avs, preseason #1 odds
2021 - Bolts, preseason #2 odds
2020 - Bolts, preseason #1 odds
2019 - Blues, preseason #14 odds
2018 - Caps, preseason #4 odds
2017 - Pens, preseason #4 odds
2016 - Pens, preseason #4 odds
2015 - Hawks, preseason #1 odds

So, for me, the Flyers need a dramatic infusion of talent. And IMO, the best way to do that is by pruning the roster and adding draft picks and prospects. For me, I'm moving Hayes and Risto for whatever I can get, if I can get anything. I'd stop short of adding assets just to be rid of them, but if it's mid round picks or mediocre prospects coming back, I'm doing it. They're bad contracts and the Flyers need to be rid of them. Provy of course demands a good return. But from most of the reports lately, he's not looking like a part of the future culture/fit wise. So even if it's not a 'blow you away' return, I still probably move him. TK/Laughton need to be 'blow you away' returns. To me, those guys can embody what the Flyers want to build. I'll stop short of saying they're franchise cornerstones because I don't think they're talented enough for that, but unless everyone reacts in a "holy shit what a steal for the Flyers" way, I'm not moving those guys right now. But I'm hoping TK keeps it up for another 12 months so at the deadline next year he's #1 on everyone's trade board. I don't think his age/contract status lines up with the Flyers timeline, so I think you keep him as long as possible to help build the culture, but move him for a haul eventually.

 

[lasgop8]

The Athletic has an article saying possibly JVR to Toronto but doesn't say what they will give us for him and eating 50% of his salary.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

The Athletic has an article saying possibly JVR to Toronto but doesn't say what they will give us for him and eating 50% of his salary.

Oh, so now they want him back huh?

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Well on a different note, welcomed my first grandchild into the world yesterday, a new Flyers fan for the future. Was really pulling for him to be born today as it's my Birthday too. Would've been a great present, not that it wasn't lol. He's gonna learn to be a left wing sniper!

 

[Chris p Bacon]

The problem that I have is that the 10 game losing streak isn't really an aberration. They've had 3 of them in the last what, 16 months? And for two of them the team was significantly more talented (I think they had healthy Couturier/Atkinson, plus Giroux). The evidence that it was an aberration is 1 month of 10-4-2 hockey. Based on the last few years at least, it's the 10-4-2 run that looks like the aberration. Yes, Torts makes a big difference. Yes, the players are bringing a different mentality. But for me, I just don't see how they go from that 21-21-9 hockey team, to a cup contender. Can Torts squeeze enough out of this roster that they're a 7-8 seed level team on a semi-regular basis? I'll say yes. He's got them trending the right direction. But I don't see how he gets this group to cup contender status. And without some dramatic moves, the prospect/cap situation has Fletcher handcuffed to bring in difference makers.

And I'm just not a believer in "once you get in, who knows what can happen" as a plan. Over the last 8 years, the cup champ was in the top 4 in preseason odds 7 out of 8 seasons. And the top two in 4 out of 8. I'm not interested in pinning my hopes to a dark horse run like the Blues in 2019. It's like catching lightning in a bottle. They basically had one kick at the can and they happened to hit. It's not a way to build a hockey team.

2022 - Avs, preseason #1 odds
2021 - Bolts, preseason #2 odds
2020 - Bolts, preseason #1 odds
2019 - Blues, preseason #14 odds
2018 - Caps, preseason #4 odds
2017 - Pens, preseason #4 odds
2016 - Pens, preseason #4 odds
2015 - Hawks, preseason #1 odds

So, for me, the Flyers need a dramatic infusion of talent. And IMO, the best way to do that is by pruning the roster and adding draft picks and prospects. For me, I'm moving Hayes and Risto for whatever I can get, if I can get anything. I'd stop short of adding assets just to be rid of them, but if it's mid round picks or mediocre prospects coming back, I'm doing it. They're bad contracts and the Flyers need to be rid of them. Provy of course demands a good return. But from most of the reports lately, he's not looking like a part of the future culture/fit wise. So even if it's not a 'blow you away' return, I still probably move him. TK/Laughton need to be 'blow you away' returns. To me, those guys can embody what the Flyers want to build. I'll stop short of saying they're franchise cornerstones because I don't think they're talented enough for that, but unless everyone reacts in a "holy shit what a steal for the Flyers" way, I'm not moving those guys right now. But I'm hoping TK keeps it up for another 12 months so at the deadline next year he's #1 on everyone's trade board. I don't think his age/contract status lines up with the Flyers timeline, so I think you keep him as long as possible to help build the culture, but move him for a haul eventually.

I agree 100%!

 

[lasgop8]

Well on a different note, welcomed my first grandchild into the world yesterday, a new Flyers fan for the future. Was really pulling for him to be born today as it's my Birthday too. Would've been a great present, not that it wasn't lol. He's gonna learn to be a left wing sniper!

Happy birthday and congratulations on being a grandpa!!!!!!!!

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Happy birthday and congratulations on being a grandpa!!!!!!!!

Thanks man, my wife has been freaking all day saying " I can't believe I'm a Grandma, I told her to relax, she's only 45.Women, sheesh! Can't wait til he's older to do stuff with.

 

[awaz]

Well on a different note, welcomed my first grandchild into the world yesterday, a new Flyers fan for the future. Was really pulling for him to be born today as it's my Birthday too. Would've been a great present, not that it wasn't lol. He's gonna learn to be a left wing sniper!

Congrats bacon!!

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Congrats bacon!!

Thank you

 

[lasgop8]

NHL Daily: Sharks’ Timo Meier Available; Will Flyers Explore?

All signs point to the Philadelphia Flyers being sellers at the trade deadline, but would general manager Chuck Fletcher get daring for one of the few times in his tenure? Would he roll the dice and make a play for San Jose’s Timo Meier, a powerful left winger who scored 35 goals last year and […]

phillyhockeynow.com

Do you make this trade?

 

[Chris p Bacon]

NHL Daily: Sharks’ Timo Meier Available; Will Flyers Explore?

All signs point to the Philadelphia Flyers being sellers at the trade deadline, but would general manager Chuck Fletcher get daring for one of the few times in his tenure? Would he roll the dice and make a play for San Jose’s Timo Meier, a powerful left winger who scored 35 goals last year and […]

phillyhockeynow.com

Do you make this trade?

Depends on what else you can bring in during the off season. Don't imagine Meier would want go to a rebuild, add a couple more pieces and you have a nice frame work going forward. The fact remains is Fletcher competent enough to get it done right?

 

[lasgop8]

Depends on what else you can bring in during the off season. Don't imagine Meier would want go to a rebuild, add a couple more pieces and you have a nice frame work going forward. The fact remains is Fletcher competent enough to get it done right?

I would do the deal only if we could do a sign and trade. I wouldn't do any of the two deals offered unless its a sign and trade, i would rather do the Prov for Meir straight up trade if we could get a contract signed ahead of time.

 

[lasgop8]

I would just like to point out that Connor McDavid has 92 points in 50 games. He's pretty good.

 

[awaz]

I would do the deal only if we could do a sign and trade. I wouldn't do any of the two deals offered unless its a sign and trade, i would rather do the Prov for Meir straight up trade if we could get a contract signed ahead of time.

I don't think I'd do the deal either. Would prefer the Prov/Meier deal than giving up picks/prospects for him though for sure.

But I think Meier falls in the same bucket with TK. It's a little bit different because he'd be signing that next deal now, at 26, whereas TK would be signing it in 2.5 years when he's 28. So while you probably waste the first few years on a not-contending Flyers team, you don't have as much on the 30+ side of it where the deal sees diminishing returns.

That being said, if there was a role (outside of goalie) that the Flyers look pretty decent in, it's the power forward / scorer type guy. Tippet and Allison are looking pretty good. Gauthier is coming and could end up on the wing too. Foerster maybe falls in that category. Those guys might not be Meier-level, but the Flyers do have a few of that style. The Flyers need playmakers and speed right now IMO. And they need to sort out the defense.