2022-2023 NBA Season Thread

[fightinfunbags]

Looks like a pretty good stat when you see all the names on that list

Maybe I’m wrong but don’t you have a job that requires analysis of data? If anyone knows about the creation of an outlier I would think it would be you that what understand what this is and why you just throw the outlier away. See my post above that establishes exactly why his game creates an anomalous situation.

 

[thunderc]

Unfortunately it is being reported that the Derozan kid “stole the show”. So we get more of it I guess.

 

[shopson67]

He is the anomaly that breaks the matrix. When it comes to defensive analytics they entirely overvalue defensive rebounds. This is Jokic wheelhouse. He’s 7 foot tall and he literally has no other defensive value that would impact his ability to rebound. Here’s what I mean. If you’re a great defender, you’re likely covering the guy who is getting up a ton of shots. That puts you in a poor rebounding position. You need a 5 to be rim protection. You can’t rebound when you’re trying to protect the rim and challenge shots. What’s left? The only thing 7 foot Jokic can do at that end is rebound. And there’s another layer. The Nuggets have had a garbage bench his entire time in Denver. This is especially true at the five position. Built into all of these analytics is a comparison to what the team does when he is off and his replacement is on. He is a cheat code to juke these numbers and produce the outlier that true statisticians need to account for whenever they do data analysis.

He's #1 among centers in steals this year too. 35th among centers in blocks though, that's where that lack of athleticism comes in.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Unfortunately it is being reported that the Derozan kid “stole the show”. So we get more of it I guess.

It's pretty fucking obnoxious.

 

[thunderc]

It's pretty fucking obnoxious.

Just read where he said she has to go back to school so we get a reprieve tomorrow night

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Just read where he said she has to go back to school so we get a reprieve tomorrow night

There's gotta be a line. That Def crosses it

 

[The Q]

Maybe I’m wrong but don’t you have a job that requires analysis of data? If anyone knows about the creation of an outlier I would think it would be you that what understand what this is and why you just throw the outlier away. See my post above that establishes exactly why his game creates an anomalous situation.

When 95% of the data makes sense, it means you’re probably onto something

Do I think he’s #1? No

Do I think he belongs on that list? Probably

This whole convo reminds me of fighting with people about FIP in baseball in the late 2000s

 

[thunderc]

There's gotta be a line. That Def crosses it

Yeah i mean if someone was blowing a whistle they would make them stop. I fail to see the difference.

 

[fightinfunbags]

He's #1 among centers in steals this year too. 35th among centers in blocks though, that's where that lack of athleticism comes in.

Whenever anyone brings up steal numbers I think of Allen Iverson always being towards the top of the league in that metric. For AI, he had little defensive impact beyond cheating passing lanes and taking risks using his speed. It resulted in 2-2.5 steals a game. Nobody would ever claim AI was even a solid defender. He was subpar by every measure of the word.

Here’s the reality: in order to actually assess defense one has to watch the game and how things play out. You can’t lean on any stat or any amalgamation of stats to judge defensive impact. We are in a moment now in all of culture but especially sports to use numbers to rate and quantify everything. Analytics have just taken over. Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to come up with anything that in anyway remotely charts or quantifies defensive impact.

 

[fightinfunbags]

When 95% of the data makes sense, it means you’re probably onto something

Do I think he’s #1? No

Do I think he belongs on that list? Probably

This whole convo reminds me of fighting with people about FIP in baseball in the late 2000s

He is a subpar defender. Plain and simple. You what doesn’t lie? The opponent trying to beat his team. And what game plan gets used in the playoffs? They will play Where’s Waldo and they’ll utilize what they do to exploit him. If it’s a team like the Lakers, they’re going to use screens to get AD singled up on him and AD will cook him. For a team like the Warriors, it’s using his cover to draw him to the perimeter where he will get switched onto a guard for a drive by. They could see the Thunder in round 1. If that happens you will see the third highest drive team in the NBA relentlessly go at him in the lane. Why? Because he’s a shit defender.

 

[trojanfan12]

So awhile back I made a comment that the Thunder might be willing to trade Giddey. After last night I am trying to think of a suitable punishment for saying that. Before anyone says it, No, I’m not going to fight @Mecca.

No crying/bitching about the refs, Austin Reaves or the Lakers until the Thunder are eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Whenever anyone brings up steal numbers I think of Allen Iverson always being towards the top of the league in that metric. For AI, he had little defensive impact beyond cheating passing lanes and taking risks using his speed. It resulted in 2-2.5 steals a game. Nobody would ever claim AI was even a solid defender. He was subpar by every measure of the word.

Here’s the reality: in order to actually assess defense one has to watch the game and how things play out. You can’t lean on any stat or any amalgamation of stats to judge defensive impact. We are in a moment now in all of culture but especially sports to use numbers to rate and quantify everything. Analytics have just taken over. Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to come up with anything that in anyway remotely charts or quantifies defensive impact.

On off is closest to me but like you said if your backup is absolute trash you're going to look that much better.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

He is a subpar defender. Plain and simple. You what doesn’t lie? The opponent trying to beat his team. And what game plan gets used in the playoffs? They will play Where’s Waldo and they’ll utilize what they do to exploit him. If it’s a team like the Lakers, they’re going to use screens to get AD singled up on him and AD will cook him. For a team like the Warriors, it’s using his cover to draw him to the perimeter where he will get switched onto a guard for a drive by. They could see the Thunder in round 1. If that happens you will see the third highest drive team in the NBA relentlessly go at him in the lane. Why? Because he’s a shit defender.

The West is as weak as it has been in 25 years. If he can't get it done this year it isn't likely to happen for him.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The West is as weak as it has been in 25 years. If he can't get it done this year it isn't likely to happen for him.

Yeah true but PHX is likely the x-factor here. If their ceiling hits what we think I don’t anyone has Denver being better. That being said, gotta be conference semi’s at worst unfortunately they probably get PHX in round 2

 

[shopson67]

Whenever anyone brings up steal numbers I think of Allen Iverson always being towards the top of the league in that metric. For AI, he had little defensive impact beyond cheating passing lanes and taking risks using his speed. It resulted in 2-2.5 steals a game. Nobody would ever claim AI was even a solid defender. He was subpar by every measure of the word.

Here’s the reality: in order to actually assess defense one has to watch the game and how things play out. You can’t lean on any stat or any amalgamation of stats to judge defensive impact. We are in a moment now in all of culture but especially sports to use numbers to rate and quantify everything. Analytics have just taken over. Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to come up with anything that in anyway remotely charts or quantifies defensive impact.

Like it or not, people lean on stats. The three simple defensive stats are rebounding, steals, and blocks. He's #1 in 2 of those. They try to go deeper in other stats to further flesh out his impact or lack thereof, but you scoff at those even more.

A key stat would be points/rebounds allowed to your position IMO. Who prevents their opposite number from scoring/rebounding the most.

 

[The Q]

Like it or not, people lean on stats. The three simple defensive stats are rebounding, steals, and blocks. He's #1 in 2 of those. They try to go deeper in other stats to further flesh out his impact or lack thereof, but you scoff at those even more.

A key stat would be points/rebounds allowed to your position IMO. Who prevents their opposite number from scoring/rebounding the most.

it’s also been found that help defense is more important than iso d

It’s why some really good one on one defenders got run out of the league faster than expected

Like Tony Douglas ans even Avery Bradley

Good on ball, terrible help defenders

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Like it or not, people lean on stats. The three simple defensive stats are rebounding, steals, and blocks. He's #1 in 2 of those. They try to go deeper in other stats to further flesh out his impact or lack thereof, but you scoff at those even more.

A key stat would be points/rebounds allowed to your position IMO. Who prevents their opposite number from scoring/rebounding the most.

He's not number 1 in any of those?

 

[shopson67]

it’s also been found that help defense is more important than iso d

It’s why some really good one on one defenders got run out of the league faster than expected

Like Tony Douglas ans even Avery Bradley

Good on ball, terrible help defenders

Sure, but with what the focus is here (Jokic), help d at C isn't as common to stand out (unless at the extremes or playing undersized).

 

[shopson67]

He's not number 1 in any of those?

For his position

 

[fightinfunbags]

Fair