2021-2022 Mariners offseason/free agency thread

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#10 on spring stat sheet..in all mlb..tooooorroo...hey....tooorrrooo

9 AbrahamToro 3B	SEA	11	26	5	11	0	1	0	2	1	3	0	1	.423	.483	.500	.983

 

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julio.#25..

25 JulioRodriguez CF	SEA	11	27	7	10	3	0	2	6	3	9	3	1	.370	.433	.704	1.137

88 MitchHaniger RF	SEA	10	27	3	6	4	0	0	4	1	8	0	0	.222	.300	.370	.670

france is 90

90 TyFrance 1B	SEA	10	28	1	6	0	0	1	3	0	2	0	0	.214	.241	.321	.562

oh it is a copmitition...for them..

for us fans its not...

but we get to..watch..so..thatis cool..

 

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106 JarredKelenic CF	SEA	10	27	2	5	1	0	0	2	1	8	1	0	.185	.214	.222	.436

26 EugenioSuarez 3B	SEA	10	24	1	3	1	0	1	3	4	9	0	0	.125	.250	.292	.542

130 JesseWinker LF	SEA	10	26	1	1	1	0	0	2	5	8	0	0	.038	.219	.077	.296

 

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others..

29 C.J.Abrams SS	SD	14	30	5	11	1	0	2	3	1	8	2	1	.367	.387	.600	.987

0 RobinsonCano DH	NYM	7	22	2	8	2	0	0	2	2	2	0	0	.364	.417	.455	.872

8 TyroneTaylor CF	MIL	9	25	5	11	3	0	3	8	1	7	0	1	.440	.429	.920	1.349

BobbyWitt 3B	KC	10	27	9	11	3	0	2	7	2	3	1	0	.407	.448	.741	1.189

VladimirGuerrero 1B	TOR	10	28	5	9	1	0	2	4	2	5	1	0	.321	.367	.571	.938

52 SpencerTorkelson 1B	DET	13	28	4	8	4	0	1	4	2	4	1	0	.286	.400	.536	.936

58 WanderFranco SS	TB	10	29	5	8	4	0	0	3	0	5	0	1	.276	.267	.414	.681

92 BrandonNimmo CF	NYM	8	26	2	5	0	0	1	1	5	10	0	0	.192	.323	.308	.631

 

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CalRaleigh C	SEA	9	18	5	5	1	1	1	3	4	9	1	0	.278	.409	.611	1.0

LuisTorrens C	SEA	10	25	2	9	1	0	0	3	0	6	0	0	.360	.360	.400	.760

105 TomMurphy C	SEA	9	21	2	3	0	0	1	4	1	9	0	0	.143	.182	.286	.468

anchia cant hit a lick...but he is a darn good catcher...

JakeAnchia C	SEA	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000

when his contrat was done..i..would offer him a trainers or managers job..

Z-man

84 MikeZunino C	TB	6	14	2	3	0	0	2	3	2	10	0	0	.214	.313	.643	.956

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[seahawksfan234]

I can't. I see disappointment when I watch him. I have more faith that Ackley will be more productive in the future than Kelenic.

I never played baseball at a high level, so I might be a bit out of my depth here, but this is currently my opinion of Kelenic:

His problem is mental. Whenever he is struggling, he either swings at every pitch he sees or takes every pitch that comes to him which both approaches lead to strikeouts looking or swinging at bad pitches.

That was never a problem for him in high school or in the minor leagues because his natural ability carried him. He hit so well at those lower levels that he never got frustrated, and if he did, he would easily turn it around just based off his pure talent.

I'm starting to wonder if he just passed the eye candy test and woo'd scouts. He's jacked, runs well, says all the right things, and in batting practice looks like a superstar.

 

[NWinAZ]

I never played baseball at a high level, so I might be a bit out of my depth here, but this is currently my opinion of Kelenic:

His problem is mental. Whenever he is struggling, he either swings at every pitch he sees or takes every pitch that comes to him which both approaches lead to strikeouts looking or swinging at bad pitches.

That was never a problem for him in high school or in the minor leagues because his natural ability carried him. He hit so well at those lower levels that he never got frustrated, and if he did, he would easily turn it around just based off his pure talent.

I'm starting to wonder if he just passed the eye candy test and woo'd scouts. He's jacked, runs well, says all the right things, and in batting practice looks like a superstar.

I think you nailed it and mental issues are much harder to get past than physical issues. I said it last year when he came up that his frustration level can be a major issue. Those guys burn themselves out before they can get started. Ackley was the opposite. He seemed to sleep walk through his career after his rookie year. Just no emotion at all.

 

[NWinAZ]

I guess with Moneyball the only time people ever point out that it has been successful is Boston. I fully agree with Moneyball in terms of filling out the roster but not building a roster which for some reason Moneyball has been defined. The movie confirmed it for the people who care about numbers because it focused on the couple of guys Beane got in that offseason not the incredible amount of young talent that was on that team. If you only read the book or watched the movie you wouldn’t realize they had a MVP and another guy who came in the top 10. Plus two guys who got Cy Young votes. Great movie but focused on 3 players and an overrated book that only focused on self serving its author’s agenda IMO.

With regards to Kelenic, the dude has aand has proven he has all star talent. His problem is mental and I have no idea on if I can talk you off the cliff or not if I can talk you off the cliff. I am massively in the minority on thinking he can still play CF, I think he is a solid CF but IMO he brought his struggles at the plate into the field which is way more concerning than his rookie season batting .180 or whatever it was.

If Kelenic and JRod alone live up to their potential plus Raleigh taking another step forward it is better than getting Bryant or Story offensively. My main issue is IMO the off-season was essentially banking on the young guys better work out. Ray is an amazing get that Jerry deserves all the credit in the world for but they are in the exact same situation next off season where they need a 2B and 3B. As a fan my entire goal was to make Marte an expendable prospect in a trade deal which now he is the most untouchable prospect in the farm system.

Just for you.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Winker to DH in that scenario. Winker is not a good outfielder. The other thing people forget about Winker, he has never played more than 113 games in a season. Only played 110 last year. Another Haniger? 1523 PA's in 5 years. 305 average per year.

Not sure if it's an injury problem or not.

Jesse Winker Injuries - MLB | FOX Sports

Learn about Jesse Winker's injury status at FOX Sports.

www.foxsports.com

2019: 10 day DL back injury.
2020: Played the entire season.
2021: 10 day DL with Rib issue and 10 day DL with "intercostal" designation whatever that means.

I have to assume perhaps the reason for his lack of an entire season is partially due to limiting his exposure to lefties. 1217 career PAs against righties, 306 PAs against lefties.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I think you nailed it and mental issues are much harder to get past than physical issues. I said it last year when he came up that his frustration level can be a major issue. Those guys burn themselves out before they can get started. Ackley was the opposite. He seemed to sleep walk through his career after his rookie year. Just no emotion at all.

I agree and don't know what the remedy is for this.

Someone can tell you not to beat yourself up too much going up to the plate 0/3 with 3 strikeouts, but at the same time an athlete of his caliber must be thinking to himself he has to do something to make up for that and gets overly aggressive. Pitchers watching the tape on him can easily see a guy they can win mind games against.

I'd honestly humble him and send him down to AAA. I don't know how much of an option that is, but I think this team is better off with him starting at AAA.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I guess with Moneyball the only time people ever point out that it has been successful is Boston. I fully agree with Moneyball in terms of filling out the roster but not building a roster which for some reason Moneyball has been defined. The movie confirmed it for the people who care about numbers because it focused on the couple of guys Beane got in that offseason not the incredible amount of young talent that was on that team. If you only read the book or watched the movie you wouldn’t realize they had a MVP and another guy who came in the top 10. Plus two guys who got Cy Young votes. Great movie but focused on 3 players and an overrated book that only focused on self serving its author’s agenda IMO.

With regards to Kelenic, the dude has aand has proven he has all star talent. His problem is mental and I have no idea on if I can talk you off the cliff or not if I can talk you off the cliff. I am massively in the minority on thinking he can still play CF, I think he is a solid CF but IMO he brought his struggles at the plate into the field which is way more concerning than his rookie season batting .180 or whatever it was.

If Kelenic and JRod alone live up to their potential plus Raleigh taking another step forward it is better than getting Bryant or Story offensively. My main issue is IMO the off-season was essentially banking on the young guys better work out. Ray is an amazing get that Jerry deserves all the credit in the world for but they are in the exact same situation next off season where they need a 2B and 3B. As a fan my entire goal was to make Marte an expendable prospect in a trade deal which now he is the most untouchable prospect in the farm system.

Good points regarding Moneyball. If you haven't read the book, I'd highly recommend it. The book is more about the intricacies of the moves that Billy Beane made and the philosophy they adopted. The movie just covers the human story of everything. One of my favorite sports movies of all time, but doesn't really cover the nerdy stuff of what they were doing. When I was an undergrad I took a class on statistics and the professor assigned a chapter of the book to us. I can't remember the purpose, but it was about how stats can be misleading or something.

Well it sounds like you, me and @NWinAZ are in agreement that the issues are mental. How do you cure that? I'm starting to become convinced he's the NFL equivalent of 21 year old eligible for the draft who has 12 solid games at the college football level, wins the NFL underwear olympi- I mean NFL combine and struggles when he actually faces competition, gets frustrated and makes things worse. He definitely has the talent and tools to be an all star talent, but can he figure it out? I don't know.

I completely agree with your last point. The more I think about it, the more I'd be willing to trade Marte for an established third baseman. I don't think you should label anyone as untouchable unless you're just posturing, which is stupid because GMs will know if you're posturing or not.

Irrespective of if how Kelenic and JRod play, we will definitely be looking for a second baseman and likely looking for a third baseman unless Suarez gets flipped or starts taking what he was on back in 2019. Even then, Suarez is still a liability at third and not getting any better.

 

[seahawksfan234]

When I see him post up a .285+ avg over 300ab's ... then and only then will I be a believer in his ability to hit in the bigs

You all mentioned Ackley ( or cracked a joke )
Turn the wayback machine to when Ackley got called up for his 1st trip into the show. was just after allstar break and he played regular and raked to an avg around .280 and hit just under 20 bombs in that 1/2 season of plate appearances.

Never again did he come close to that initial success batting, ever again. He became a total flop and the biggest #2 overall pick in the M's history and likely all of baseball.

Kelenic is on the same dreary path without the initial 'hot' start. He just swings like he is not seeing pitches well and getting fooled alot. No committment when he takes a hack at the ball

Your last point is my biggest concern.

I feel like with Kelenic this is how two ABs will go for him:

First AB: Strikes out at a pitch way out of the zone.
Second AB: Starts taking everything because he realized he was swinging at bad pitches, and strikes out looking at a pitch he should've swung on.

I don't know how you overcome that.

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[NWinAZ]

 

[wazzu31]

Just for you.

I don’t dislike Torrens at all, I just don’t see room for him on the roster. If Murphy is the starter and Raleigh is the backup catcher or vice versa how can you keep Torrens, Moore and Toro basically all utility guys? Truth be told I am cool with letting Murphy go (not sure on his options) allowing Raleigh to be the starter then Torrens can be the backup plus the DH against lefties. I just have a gut feeling with they will need the roster flexibility with extra pitchers over a DH specialist.

 

[wazzu31]

Good points regarding Moneyball. If you haven't read the book, I'd highly recommend it. The book is more about the intricacies of the moves that Billy Beane made and the philosophy they adopted. The movie just covers the human story of everything. One of my favorite sports movies of all time, but doesn't really cover the nerdy stuff of what they were doing. When I was an undergrad I took a class on statistics and the professor assigned a chapter of the book to us. I can't remember the purpose, but it was about how stats can be misleading or something.

Well it sounds like you, me and @NWinAZ are in agreement that the issues are mental. How do you cure that? I'm starting to become convinced he's the NFL equivalent of 21 year old eligible for the draft who has 12 solid games at the college football level, wins the NFL underwear olympi- I mean NFL combine and struggles when he actually faces competition, gets frustrated and makes things worse. He definitely has the talent and tools to be an all star talent, but can he figure it out? I don't know.

I completely agree with your last point. The more I think about it, the more I'd be willing to trade Marte for an established third baseman. I don't think you should label anyone as untouchable unless you're just posturing, which is stupid because GMs will know if you're posturing or not.

Irrespective of if how Kelenic and JRod play, we will definitely be looking for a second baseman and likely looking for a third baseman unless Suarez gets flipped or starts taking what he was on back in 2019. Even then, Suarez is still a liability at third and not getting any better.

I know people like it and I fully admit I never finished the book because it personally pissed me off. At my core I fully disagree with the philosophy of Moneyball so it read like a propaganda book to me. Runs scored is the most important offensive stat regardless of how it is generated. My simplest way of justifying my hardline stance on it is that my best childhood memory was the double and everything about that play would have Bill James crying. Cora wouldn’t have gotten on base, debatable if he could go 1st to 3rd on Juniors single and 100% would’ve been against Junior being waved home. IMO the biggest crime in that scenario is at Bill James core philosophy is it allows for a legitimate argument that Edgar should have been pinch hit for.

I don’t think you could use any football analogy. More like a NBA analogy of back when HS’ could go straight pro. They dominated at every level they played then struggled playing against other pros. I have no idea but his September showed hope. He has Ichiro as a tool to use but for sure he needs a vet that doesn’t have a problem getting in his face. It isn’t Servais’ responsibility but Jared needs a manager that can run out there when he gets a bad call or what he thinks is a bad call and can run interference with the umpire because a rookie barking at the ump was a red flag and a reputation he cannot get.

I’m not advocating for trading Marte just as a fan I don’t like that is seems Jerry has boxed himself in. He seems to have hitched his wagon to JP as his SS which means Marte is going to be playing 3B and as @NWinAZ always points out with not blocking a position, that is one hell of a gamble for a contending team to be banking on him living up to hype when has barely played professional ball.

 

[ulmax]

LHhitter that could rock in the mariners system....

Maui Ahuna

Kansas

SS

.430

.527

.731

1.258

25

93

19

40

8

4

4

28

3

16

21

6

2

he is #17...but he is 4th ss in ncaa..iin batting