2020 NBA Offseason

[msgkings322]

No doubt. Imagine one of them on that team though.

Lebron driving the lane and dishing to all of those shooters. Or AD down low scoring or kicking it out...

that 73 win record would be in serious jeopardy.

Draymond, Wiggins, the #2, Minny's pick next year for LeBron. LeBron man, he's pretty old.

Who says no?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Can somebody just PLEASE hire Jeff van Gundy as a coach so I don't have to listen to his BS next season any more.

 

[tlance]

It was "toxic" (quotes because I think those reports saying it are using too hostile a word) because they hadn't spent time together, faced some some adversity in the bubble and turned on each other. Half the team didn't want to be in the bubble to begin with. Their issues are more circumstantial than being structural.

Not true.

It was toxic because their best player was given special treatment and the other guys who had been there were pissed off about it.

Add in the fact that neither Kawhi or PG played as well as they were supposed to, and you have a bad situation.

If Kawhi practiced every day and worked hard at the Clipper facility, there would not have been any reports about a toxic environment.

Show me a team where the star player is perceived as “lazy” and I will show you a team with chemistry issues. It just doesn’t work.

 

[trojanfan12]

It was a shame Kawhi had to go to a foreign country to win a title. I mean what's happening?

See, y'all shoulda let President Trump build his wall. Then shit like that wouldn't happen.

 

[wildturkey]

Not true.

It was toxic because their best player was given special treatment and the other guys who had been there were pissed off about it.

Add in the fact that neither Kawhi or PG played as well as they were supposed to, and you have a bad situation.

If Kawhi practiced every day and worked hard at the Clipper facility, there would not have been any reports about a toxic environment.

Show me a team where the star player is perceived as “lazy” and I will show you a team with chemistry issues. It just doesn’t work.

You didn't hear anything until after the bubble after they were bounced. It was only a problem after they lost.

 

[bksballer89]

You didn't hear anything until after the bubble after they were bounced. It was only a problem after they lost.

Not true. I heard about George and Kawhi special treatment before the bubble

 

[bksballer89]

This is what I'm referring to

Report: Preferential treatment for Paul George and Kawhi Leonard causing waves within Clippers

The 2018-19 Clippers were incredibly gritty. The 2019-20 Clippers are incredibly gifted.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[wildturkey]

This is what I'm referring to

Report: Preferential treatment for Paul George and Kawhi Leonard causing waves within Clippers

The 2018-19 Clippers were incredibly gritty. The 2019-20 Clippers are incredibly gifted.

sports.yahoo.com

And they were still winning games. It wasn't a defining issue until after the fact. You want to see a team with chemistry issues in the season, look at Philly. We've seen teams flat out quit on coaches and each other, etc in the past plenty as well. There's none of that major dysfunction here. Buying into all this like media members are, tlance whoever, are just reading too much into it and placing more significance into it than is warranted. The Clippers main problems was their core group that it needed to rely on come playoff time never really had significant time to play with each other all year and the other was Doc Rivers basically refused to make adjustments in the Denver series. One of those problems is gone now. The other has opportunity to correct itself as they should have ample time to play together provided the Clippers don't panic and start stripping down the team trying to make pieces fit.

 

[tlance]

And they were still winning games. It wasn't a defining issue until after the fact. You want to see a team with chemistry issues in the season, look at Philly. We've seen teams flat out quit on coaches and each other, etc in the past plenty as well. There's none of that major dysfunction here. Buying into all this like media members are, tlance whoever, are just reading too much into it and placing more significance into it than is warranted. The Clippers main problems was their core group that it needed to rely on come playoff time never really had significant time to play with each other all year and the other was Doc Rivers basically refused to make adjustments in the Denver series. One of those problems is gone now. The other has opportunity to correct itself as they should have ample time to play together provided the Clippers don't panic and start stripping down the team trying to make pieces fit.

Of course they were winning. They were the most talented roster in the league by a good bit.

They underachieved because they had chemistry issues.

The 6ers had poor fit. The Clippers have players that resent each other. The former can sometimes be fixed with time and strategy. The later usually requires moving pieces. Perhaps a different voice leading the ship helps, but it might not be enough.

 

[tlance]

And they were still winning games. It wasn't a defining issue until after the fact. You want to see a team with chemistry issues in the season, look at Philly. We've seen teams flat out quit on coaches and each other, etc in the past plenty as well. There's none of that major dysfunction here. Buying into all this like media members are, tlance whoever, are just reading too much into it and placing more significance into it than is warranted. The Clippers main problems was their core group that it needed to rely on come playoff time never really had significant time to play with each other all year and the other was Doc Rivers basically refused to make adjustments in the Denver series. One of those problems is gone now. The other has opportunity to correct itself as they should have ample time to play together provided the Clippers don't panic and start stripping down the team trying to make pieces fit.

And I am not saying they need to strip it down, but I am saying that you are oversimplifying the issue.

 

[trojanfan12]

And they were still winning games. It wasn't a defining issue until after the fact. You want to see a team with chemistry issues in the season, look at Philly. We've seen teams flat out quit on coaches and each other, etc in the past plenty as well. There's none of that major dysfunction here. Buying into all this like media members are, tlance whoever, are just reading too much into it and placing more significance into it than is warranted. The Clippers main problems was their core group that it needed to rely on come playoff time never really had significant time to play with each other all year and the other was Doc Rivers basically refused to make adjustments in the Denver series. One of those problems is gone now. The other has opportunity to correct itself as they should have ample time to play together provided the Clippers don't panic and start stripping down the team trying to make pieces fit.

As @tlance said, the Sixers didn't have chemistry issues, they have "fit" issues and I'd add, bad coaching too. Like the Clippers, they struggled more than they should, but I don't remember hearing about anybody there complaining about star treatment or guys not getting along.

There were little signs throughout the season that the Clippers weren't exactly singing Kumbaya together. There's @bksballer89 article, I remember Kawhi's "load management" and how it would fit in that locker room being brought up right after he was signed. Weren't the Clippers the only team that had a player actually put the bubble at risk? But everyone assumed (probably the players too) that winning would take care of that.

As for it becoming a defining issue after the season, of course it didn't become one during the season. Most guys will try to keep that stuff under wraps as long as they think they may get a title. It's like with Kobe, he could be a real asshole, but guys put up with it because they knew he gave them a shot at a ring.

Once they got eliminated from the playoffs, especially in the embarrassing way they did, there was no longer reason to keep things quiet.

I don't know if they need to blow things up necessarily. Maybe the problem was that Doc let it go too far and Ty Lue can figure out how to bridge the gap? If he can, then maybe that's all the change they need.

But it seems they need to do something. When it gets out that one of the stars was trying to "rally the troops" about next season and it gets met with a collective eye roll...that's not a good look.

 

[Heatles84]

starts with Hayward theis and the 14th pick for sure. probably Romeo too. I’d need to play with the cap numbers but that’s a starting point. Plus Edwards maybe (Conley is a fa after next year, might want to see what a guy like Edwards has before picking a successor).

Ya, Hayward and Theis sound about right, along with the 1st round pick (possibly another one later on). A combo of Tatum and Gobert moves the needle for the Celtics. Bam was able to feast against the Celtics in the ECF. Gobert makes that much more difficult.

 

[Heatles84]

Can somebody just PLEASE hire Jeff van Gundy as a coach so I don't have to listen to his BS next season any more.

Wait. You don't like him complaining about every single rule in the NBA?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Pacers interested in Hayward...that seems like a Pacers move lol

 

[The Q]

Pacers interested in Hayward...that seems like a Pacers move lol

he’s from there and would presumably be interested in resigning

 

[trojanfan12]

Pacers interested in Hayward...that seems like a Pacers move lol

It's interesting with a team like the Pacers.

They aren't a free agent destination, but they always manage to be good enough to make the playoffs or be in the playoff hunt...but they just can't get to that contender level.

The only way for them to get to that level would seem to be to tank and hope they can draft a superstar. But that doesn't seem to be in their organizational DNA.

Hayward would definitely be a very good pickup for them and as @The Q said...he's from there, so he may re-sign with them. It would definitely make them better, but unfortunately, isn't getting them past the Heat, Celtics or Bucks (unless the Bucks lose Giannis).

 

[Wamu]

See, y'all shoulda let President Trump build his wall. Then shit like that wouldn't happen.

I'm sure as soon as Mexico pays for that wall it will be completed.

 

[tlance]

As @tlance said, the Sixers didn't have chemistry issues, they have "fit" issues and I'd add, bad coaching too. Like the Clippers, they struggled more than they should, but I don't remember hearing about anybody there complaining about star treatment or guys not getting along.

There were little signs throughout the season that the Clippers weren't exactly singing Kumbaya together. There's @bksballer89 article, I remember Kawhi's "load management" and how it would fit in that locker room being brought up right after he was signed. Weren't the Clippers the only team that had a player actually put the bubble at risk? But everyone assumed (probably the players too) that winning would take care of that.

As for it becoming a defining issue after the season, of course it didn't become one during the season. Most guys will try to keep that stuff under wraps as long as they think they may get a title. It's like with Kobe, he could be a real asshole, but guys put up with it because they knew he gave them a shot at a ring.

Once they got eliminated from the playoffs, especially in the embarrassing way they did, there was no longer reason to keep things quiet.

I don't know if they need to blow things up necessarily. Maybe the problem was that Doc let it go too far and Ty Lue can figure out how to bridge the gap? If he can, then maybe that's all the change they need.

But it seems they need to do something. When it gets out that one of the stars was trying to "rally the troops" about next season and it gets met with a collective eye roll...that's not a good look.

Exactly.

As for the Kobe example, he and Shaq had their issues too. Some of it was based a similar dynamic where the best player (Shaq) didn’t work hard enough in the eyes of the second star who was a relentless competitor.

Now, they were able to mostly set it aside because they won 3 rings, but their issue was more of a minor squabble that contributed to the eventual split (yes, I know Buss and $ was the biggest factor).

The Clipper issue probably would have been overlooked had they won.

But they didn’t. And now we see a pretty clear reason why they underperformed.

 

[tlance]

Ya, Hayward and Theis sound about right, along with the 1st round pick (possibly another one later on). A combo of Tatum and Gobert moves the needle for the Celtics. Bam was able to feast against the Celtics in the ECF. Gobert makes that much more difficult.

I actually disagree here.

I don’t think acquiring a player like Gobert is what the Celtics need. He doesn’t really matchup particularly well with smaller, more athletic bigs either. He is an elite rim protector, so he would help the interior defense, but that would be partially offset by the downgrade from Theiss on pick and roll defense. Gobert isn’t bad there, but Theiss is excellent.

I am not sure what the Celtics need to do, but I don’t think trading for a 5 is the answer. I would rather see them persue a smaller, more athletic big who better fits their offensive system too.

 

[The Q]

I actually disagree here.

I don’t think acquiring a player like Gobert is what the Celtics need. He doesn’t really matchup particularly well with smaller, more athletic bigs either. He is an elite rim protector, so he would help the interior defense, but that would be partially offset by the downgrade from Theiss on pick and roll defense. Gobert isn’t bad there, but Theiss is excellent.

I am not sure what the Celtics need to do, but I don’t think trading for a 5 is the answer. I would rather see them persue a smaller, more athletic big who better fits their offensive system too.

not many 5s who can do that.

I guess that's Nance Jr.

I'm a fan.

Him and Grant can guard both 4s and 5s if they need to go bigger. Still need to dump frenchy.