2020 Hawks Offseason Thread:

[HaroldSeattle]

I guess. I feel like are going to be the Saints of the last 10 years for the next 10 years.

It is frustrating. Once you get good it's just hard to get to the next level. Not enough cap and really poor draft position, it's a deadly combo. I wonder if the wise thing to do is after winning a SB to go back to a complete rebuild ( except for the franchise QB). Cause after winning every player wants the big bucks and that blows up your cap and of course your picking dead last in the draft.

 

[Screamin12th]

The Hawks just need to rebuild that line. I know lots of you hate that word "Rebuild" but it IS what is HAPPENING. Also they need to start hitting on Picks .. i don't care if they hit on the first round because that's only one pick i care about what happens between the 2nd and 6th! that's where you need to hit more. The Hawks use to do well in this area for the first couple of years but since then they have been pretty bad. They also need talented depth not just top loaded.

 

[Screamin12th]

Did it ? Or was there other reasons? IDK myself.

View attachment 241439

All i know is when i first heard of this release i was like hmm someone the Hawks can pick up maybe for 4-5mill so i started digging. I forget where i read it but it said his play declined sharply last season and the Saints felt it time to move on. After reading that i was like nope not going to make a post about it on the forums because it's a pass for me.

 

[blstoker]

All i know is when i first heard of this release i was like hmm someone the Hawks can pick up maybe for 4-5mill so i started digging. I forget where i read it but it said his play declined sharply last season and the Saints felt it time to move on. After reading that i was like nope not going to make a post about it on the forums because it's a pass for me.

I don't know how accurate all this is. Line is always my worst positions to grade. PFF had Warford with his highest grade in his time with the Saints in 2019. At 73.1, that would've been the best on the Seahawks line last year, I believe. I'm sure saving $10 million on their cap didn't hurt in the decision to let him go, either - since they were over the cap before he was released.

 

[Screamin12th]

I don't know how accurate all this is. Line is always my worst positions to grade. PFF had Warford with his highest grade in his time with the Saints in 2019. At 73.1, that would've been the best on the Seahawks line last year, I believe. I'm sure saving $10 million on their cap didn't hurt in the decision to let him go, either - since they were over the cap before he was released.

Grading out any olineman is tough! hell i couldn't do it. All i ever look at is footwork and how slow or HEAVY they move their feet. When you watched Walter Jones when he was young his feet moved like a WR's! Quick and light, but also powerful. Not fair to judge others by Jones standard but it is the best stick i got to compare it to lol. We have had some of the heaviest/slowest footed Olineman in the league lately, Heck only Britt had feet that looked even somewhat quick but that was compared to everyone else on the line lol.

This team is kind of stuck, they want to be a power running team so they build a power running line. They have one of the shiftiest QB's in NFL History to go along with one of the best arms and mind in the game..... uhm Hey Seahawks, you're doing it wrong. lol. I feel they need to go with strong but quicker footed guys. These guys can change their push and angle of attack much faster and this is a plus for a QB that is a shifty little dust devil behind the line. Also these traits help in the passing game. It allows them to get into their drops with no problems and able to set up for the rush, to keep everyone in front of them allowing them that split second longer to see a stunt.

Hawks need to set up the run with the pass, they can do it and it would make the run game much scarier. My opinion though so it's not worth a hill of beans lmao.

 

[flyerhawk]

It is frustrating. Once you get good it's just hard to get to the next level. Not enough cap and really poor draft position, it's a deadly combo. I wonder if the wise thing to do is after winning a SB to go back to a complete rebuild ( except for the franchise QB). Cause after winning every player wants the big bucks and that blows up your cap and of course your picking dead last in the draft.

Yeah I get that. But that's why sometimes you have to take risks. Because hitting on studs in the draft is a real wild card. Maybe we hit it big with Taylor. Maybe Collier takes a huge leap.

But our DL is pretty terrible. And you can't have a good defense with a bad DL. If fact you can't have an ok defense with a bad DL. You can have a good defense with ok linebackers or ok corners, if other parts of your defense are very good. But a DL that can neither rush the passer or stop the run is a defense that has no chance of winning a Super Bowl.

I can live with them moving on from Clowney. If that wasn't in the cards, so be it. But standing pat with the current defensive line is just unacceptable and I don't understand how PC or JS don't know this.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Yeah I get that. But that's why sometimes you have to take risks. Because hitting on studs in the draft is a real wild card. Maybe we hit it big with Taylor. Maybe Collier takes a huge leap.

But our DL is pretty terrible. And you can't have a good defense with a bad DL. If fact you can't have an ok defense with a bad DL. You can have a good defense with ok linebackers or ok corners, if other parts of your defense are very good. But a DL that can neither rush the passer or stop the run is a defense that has no chance of winning a Super Bowl.

I can live with them moving on from Clowney. If that wasn't in the cards, so be it. But standing pat with the current defensive line is just unacceptable and I don't understand how PC or JS don't know this.

I do believe another addition to the line will happen. I'd say Griffen is the higher chance of being signed than Clowney but I won't rule Clowney out of the race. I also won't rule out a trade with Jax for Yannick.

 

[flyerhawk]

I do believe another addition to the line will happen. I'd say Griffen is the higher chance of being signed than Clowney but I won't rule Clowney out of the race. I also won't rule out a trade with Jax for Yannick.

I certainly hope so. We don't have any way of knowing but if we wind up empty handed at the end, then the FO really deserves criticism.

I don't think I have ever really criticized the PC/JS regime before. In fact I usually defend them.

But I'm absolutely baffled by their actions with regards to the DL. I defended the Olsen signing because I understand the reasoning. But I also thought at the time that Clowney would be back which I considered the No. 1 priority of the offseason.

If they have really moved on from Clowney, why haven't they gone after Golden or Griffen?

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I certainly hope so. We don't have any way of knowing but if we wind up empty handed at the end, then the FO really deserves criticism.

I don't think I have ever really criticized the PC/JS regime before. In fact I usually defend them.

But I'm absolutely baffled by their actions with regards to the DL. I defended the Olsen signing because I understand the reasoning. But I also thought at the time that Clowney would be back which I considered the No. 1 priority of the offseason.

If they have really moved on from Clowney, why haven't they gone after Golden or Griffen?

I've been vocal on how PC/JS handled the o-line during the Tom Cable era and allowing him too have to much say on who to draft but other than that there's minor ones here and there but not bashing worthy.

Since they haven't made any moves on Golden/Griffen I feel the door to Clowney is still open. Granted that's a dangerous game to play cause Griffen could be snagged at anytime but I haven't read or heard any rumors of teams involved. The Yannick trade if they do it will wait till TC or when preseason starts and hope Jax will panic and drop his trade value just to gain something.

 

[Anointed One]

I almost get the feeling that the coaches may be happy with what they have... They keep comparing Darrell Taylor to Frank Clark... They may just focus on a few DT's in FA...

 

[flyerhawk]

I've been vocal on how PC/JS handled the o-line during the Tom Cable era and allowing him too have to much say on who to draft but other than that there's minor ones here and there but not bashing worthy.

Since they haven't made any moves on Golden/Griffen I feel the door to Clowney is still open. Granted that's a dangerous game to play cause Griffen could be snagged at anytime but I haven't read or heard any rumors of teams involved. The Yannick trade if they do it will wait till TC or when preseason starts and hope Jax will panic and drop his trade value just to gain something.

I'm not keen on paying Ngokue 20 million a year so that seems like another rental.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I'm not keen on paying Ngokue 20 million a year so that seems like another rental.

He probably won't get that. If the season opens up without fans in the stadium and by ends year only half stadiums filled, the NFL lost a lot of dollars so there's a good chance the cap number will come down and in doing so contract numbers will do the same. So the 20mil he's looking for might not be there.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Going to be a decent addition for some team.

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Warford, who turns 29 next month, was selected to the Pro Bowl the last three seasons, all with the Saints, after spending the first four years of his career with the Lions.

Warford has been a model of durability throughout his career, starting 101 regular-season games in seven seasons.

I actually came here just to post this. Looks like you're ahead of me.

As much as we need help on defense, Warford would be a great addition and make me feel a lot more comfortable about the offensive line.

Hopefully I'm wrong but given the half dozen or so offensive linemen the Seahawks signed, I'd find it surprising to see them sign another one.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I actually came here just to post this. Looks like you're ahead of me.

As much as we need help on defense, Warford would be a great addition and make me feel a lot more comfortable about the offensive line.

Hopefully I'm wrong but given the half dozen or so offensive linemen the Seahawks signed, I'd find it surprising to see them sign another one.

Yeah I think he would be a good addition, but don't expect it to happen. However I do think the Seahawks are going to make further additions. Most likely to the DL, but the OL could also use a boost so who knows?

 

[seahawksfan234]

I almost get the feeling that the coaches may be happy with what they have... They keep comparing Darrell Taylor to Frank Clark... They may just focus on a few DT's in FA...

I get that impression as well. JS has also talked about Clowney in the past-tense.

They signed Mayowa and Irvin. Drafted Taylor who they considered in the first round, L.J. Collier with their first pick last year and drafted Rasheem Green with their second pick the year before.

I don't think they would've made those moves if they thought they could bring another guy in.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yeah I think he would be a good addition, but don't expect it to happen. However I do think the Seahawks are going to make further additions. Most likely to the DL, but the OL could also use a boost so who knows?

I'm actually at the point where I don't think they add another edge rusher unless they've already given up on L.J. Collier and Rasheem Green. Right now we have 5 players competing for two edge rush positions in Irvin, Collier, Green, Mayowa, and Taylor.

I don't know why they'd sign Mayowa and Irvin, then draft Taylor if they figured there was a realistic possibility that they would add another player to the competition. I know Irvin is listed as a linebacker, but he was listed as such when he was with the Seahawks prior to leaving and he was primarily an edge rusher.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

. I know Irvin is listed as a linebacker, but he was listed as such when he was with the Seahawks prior to leaving and he was primarily an edge

Not sure that is accurate. He started as a edge rusher but was developed into a LB before leaving the team. Could be they see Taylor as the answer, not really sure about that, but even if they do I could see them adding a pass rusher to bridge his learning curve.

 

[flyerhawk]

Sam Gold with another good video on a Seahawk prospect. This time Darrell Taylor...


He sounds a lot less convinced that Taylor will have much impact as a rookie than he did with Brooks.

It also highlights my biggest concern about the DL going into the season. We might be ok on the weakside DE or LEO position. Between Irvin, Mayowa, Taylor and Green we may be adequate at that position. On the other side, however, I am much more concerned. As it stands, Collier is really the only guy who fits on that strongside as a point of attack type player who hold up. Whereas we got a zero from the LEO side of the line last year, I fear we will get close to zero from the strongside this year.

 

[JMR]

Sam Gold with another good video on a Seahawk prospect. This time Darrell Taylor...


He sounds a lot less convinced that Taylor will have much impact as a rookie than he did with Brooks.

The interesting part about that is he used the Alabama game as the top competition matchup to project how he may do right away in the NFL. I saw 5 plays in the video from that game, and he did get 1 pressure & QB hit and did a pretty good job sealing the edge on a run to force the ballcarrier back inside. I am not saying this means I disagree with the assessment, but if Taylor was mostly dominated against Alabama then it seems like they could have showed that a bit better. And some context is useful as well -- not like DEs are going to make some sort of positive play (pressure, sack, tackle, etc) on even more than half of the snaps. Even the best players at the position are going to fail in that regard most of the time.

On the state of the DL, I still look at it from the perspective that the games don't start for another 4 months. Clowney, Griffen, and maybe even Ngakoue are all still in play. I know someone is going to mention that most of the cap space we freed by cutting Fluker and Britt is already spent or otherwise accounted for, but there are still pretty easy ways to create more when needed. I heard one of them on the radio last week: convert a chunk of Russell's base salary to SB, and you instantly create several more million in cap space without paying him any less money and without cutting anyone. There's always ways to get it done.

 

[flyerhawk]

On the state of the DL, I still look at it from the perspective that the games don't start for another 4 months. Clowney, Griffen, and maybe even Ngakoue are all still in play. I know someone is going to mention that most of the cap space we freed by cutting Fluker and Britt is already spent or otherwise accounted for, but there are still pretty easy ways to create more when needed. I heard one of them on the radio last week: convert a chunk of Russell's base salary to SB, and you instantly create several more million in cap space without paying him any less money and without cutting anyone. There's always ways to get it done.

I really hope you're right. But we are getting closer to TC. We have to accept that is entirely possible that this is the team we are going to start the season with.

Let's remember that the Seahawks were content to start last season with DL that would have been pretty atrocious if not for Clowney falling in our lap.

Hopefully they plan to bring back Clowney and they are waiting until he can get actual offers from other teams and will match whatever offer comes along. But I just don't see it happening.