2020-21 The Carter Hart Era PT2(The raising of the cup)

[lasgop8]

I have to say, I'm hoping they take JvR too. But let's be honest here, you wouldn't take JvR if he was the last hockey player on the planet

This is true but do you think the Kraken will take him. Im going to church Sunday and pray that they do but whats the plan if they dont?

 

[lasgop8]

Apples to Liver comparison.

I dont know why but i just found it funny.

Although i would like to point out i would rather have had a player with 269 PP goals than 268 total goals i think that is a given for all of us though

 

[lasgop8]

This is a major weakness for a professional sports franchise. Every team faces adversity, you have to power through it.

It’s the difference “winners” bring every minute every game. I keep going back to Crosby’s “no stick” goal. If I were AV I would be playing that on a loop in the locker room.

This is what happens when you have a team full of pusses and winning teams

 

[awaz]

This is true but do you think the Kraken will take him. Im going to church Sunday and pray that they do but whats the plan if they dont?

I think they could. The Flyers, fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, don't have enough players that I would consider "key players" that Seattle would be after. With Laughton signed, and assuming they protect a guy they just signed, my guess is the Flyers will expose:

Voracek
JvR
NAK
Ghost
Braun
Hagg
Sandstrom

Voracek's 8.25 through 2024 is too long. NAK from 2021 is just a penalty taking machine that provides essentially no positive value. Ghost passed through waivers unclaimed. Sandstrom has never played an NHL game and at this point isn't even looked at as much of an NHL option.

So if I were running Seattle, I'm picking between JvR, Hagg, Braun, and Ghost. They'll probably have multiple options for 3rd pair dmen from every team. So the chances that Hagg/Braun are the cream of that crop seems pretty unlikely (though Braun has probably been the Flyers 2nd best dman this year). So you're down to JvR and Ghost. If I were them I'd take Ghost, but I have a soft spot for him. Vegas probably isn't going to get many looks at a regular 25+ goal scorer on the wing. And 7M for 2 years isn't really crippling if it doesn't work out.

I could see them taking a chance on NAK since he's young. Or Braun since he's actually had a pretty good year this year and is a vet. But JvR and Voracek (if they do expose him) will be the two best players the Flyers expose. And JvR has a more attractive contract.

 

[awaz]

This is a major weakness for a professional sports franchise. Every team faces adversity, you have to power through it.

It’s the difference “winners” bring every minute every game. I keep going back to Crosby’s “no stick” goal. If I were AV I would be playing that on a loop in the locker room.

Oh ya, absolutely. It's a major flaw in the make up of the Flyers right now. And I think another one is the defense is primarily soft, offensive, puck mover type guys. Fletcher has alluded to having the "wrong mix" a bunch in his last few press conferences. I think that mental make-up, and the defense, is primarily what he's talking about. Or at least, I hope that's what he's talking about.

To me, they need (in order of necessity):
1. Winners

2. A top pair dman to go with Provorov. Who I think is miscast as an offensive guy. He's good at defense and moving the puck up. Let him play defense and focus on defense. Find someone better at running the PP. I think not using Sanheim on the PP is a travesty.

3. Another defense-first dman. In the mold of Hagg or Braun, but better than Hagg or Braun. Someone to compliment Sanheim's aggressive offensive style and frees him up to be that.

4. A forward or two who drives the net on every shift. I honestly don't think the Flyers have a single forward likes to get to the net front. You can carry possession and outshoot people all day, but scoring goals requires you to go to the net. Particularly in the playoffs.

 

[mall3013]

I think they could. The Flyers, fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, don't have enough players that I would consider "key players" that Seattle would be after. With Laughton signed, and assuming they protect a guy they just signed, my guess is the Flyers will expose:

Voracek
JvR
NAK
Ghost
Braun
Hagg
Sandstrom

Voracek's 8.25 through 2024 is too long. NAK from 2021 is just a penalty taking machine that provides essentially no positive value. Ghost passed through waivers unclaimed. Sandstrom has never played an NHL game and at this point isn't even looked at as much of an NHL option.

So if I were running Seattle, I'm picking between JvR, Hagg, Braun, and Ghost. They'll probably have multiple options for 3rd pair dmen from every team. So the chances that Hagg/Braun are the cream of that crop seems pretty unlikely (though Braun has probably been the Flyers 2nd best dman this year). So you're down to JvR and Ghost. If I were them I'd take Ghost, but I have a soft spot for him. Vegas probably isn't going to get many looks at a regular 25+ goal scorer on the wing. And 7M for 2 years isn't really crippling if it doesn't work out.

I could see them taking a chance on NAK since he's young. Or Braun since he's actually had a pretty good year this year and is a vet. But JvR and Voracek (if they do expose him) will be the two best players the Flyers expose. And JvR has a more attractive contract.

good post @awaz. The way you broke this down really simplified the decision imo. I would probably roll with JvR for the fact he can score, although he's a streaky goal scorer. Ghost would be interesting as well. He's still young and he has the potential to succeed elsewhere imo.

 

[awaz]

good post @awaz. The way you broke this down really simplified the decision imo. I would probably roll with JvR for the fact he can score, although he's a streaky goal scorer. Ghost would be interesting as well. He's still young and he has the potential to succeed elsewhere imo.

Thanks mall. It just seems like it could be the logical decision for Seattle given what the Flyers expose. They’ll probably take some crap contracts from teams in exchange for picks/prospects, but it’d be next level for them to be up near the cap in year 1. JvR still brings value to the team, just maybe 5M instead of 7M. Seattle will have the cap space to take advantage of getting that quality of player for essentially nothing, just because the Flyers want the cap space.

I’m more worried about Fletcher thinking JvR is a good piece and protecting him, than I am about Seattle thinking he’d make a bad selection. If you’re Fletcher, you’ve gotta use the expansion draft to move a salary and create flexibility. Especially with Laughton already re-signed. But I could see him looking at it and saying ‘JvR produced this year, Patrick did not’ and exposing Patrick instead. I think that would be a mistake. For the ‘potential’ discussion we’ve had, but also from a cap management perspective.

 

[mall3013]

Thanks mall. It just seems like it could be the logical decision for Seattle given what the Flyers expose. They’ll probably take some crap contracts from teams in exchange for picks/prospects, but it’d be next level for them to be up near the cap in year 1. JvR still brings value to the team, just maybe 5M instead of 7M. Seattle will have the cap space to take advantage of getting that quality of player for essentially nothing, just because the Flyers want the cap space.

I’m more worried about Fletcher thinking JvR is a good piece and protecting him, than I am about Seattle thinking he’d make a bad selection. If you’re Fletcher, you’ve gotta use the expansion draft to move a salary and create flexibility. Especially with Laughton already re-signed. But I could see him looking at it and saying ‘JvR produced this year, Patrick did not’ and exposing Patrick instead. I think that would be a mistake. For the ‘potential’ discussion we’ve had, but also from a cap management perspective.

I can't imagine Fletcher being that dumb leaving Patrick unprotected, but who knows? My gut feeling is Fletcher will protect Patrick to use him in a trade during the summer for a defensman.

 

[lasgop8]

I think they could. The Flyers, fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, don't have enough players that I would consider "key players" that Seattle would be after. With Laughton signed, and assuming they protect a guy they just signed, my guess is the Flyers will expose:

Voracek
JvR
NAK
Ghost
Braun
Hagg
Sandstrom

Voracek's 8.25 through 2024 is too long. NAK from 2021 is just a penalty taking machine that provides essentially no positive value. Ghost passed through waivers unclaimed. Sandstrom has never played an NHL game and at this point isn't even looked at as much of an NHL option.

So if I were running Seattle, I'm picking between JvR, Hagg, Braun, and Ghost. They'll probably have multiple options for 3rd pair dmen from every team. So the chances that Hagg/Braun are the cream of that crop seems pretty unlikely (though Braun has probably been the Flyers 2nd best dman this year). So you're down to JvR and Ghost. If I were them I'd take Ghost, but I have a soft spot for him. Vegas probably isn't going to get many looks at a regular 25+ goal scorer on the wing. And 7M for 2 years isn't really crippling if it doesn't work out.

I could see them taking a chance on NAK since he's young. Or Braun since he's actually had a pretty good year this year and is a vet. But JvR and Voracek (if they do expose him) will be the two best players the Flyers expose. And JvR has a more attractive contract.

If i were them id take Ghost before i took JVR but thats just me

 

[lasgop8]

Shout out to Patrick Marleau for breaking the record of most games played.

 

[awaz]

If i were them id take Ghost before i took JVR but thats just me

I think I would too. And I’m sure they’ll at least take that posture. We’ll see if Fletcher bites and gives an asset for them to take JvR.

But even if they take ghost, that clears some cap space which would be useful.

 

[awaz]

Dreger just tweeted the OHL is expected to announce they won’t have a season this year. Clearing the way for Wisdom and Foerster to stay with the Phantoms for the year. I like that for them.

 

[lasgop8]

I think I would too. And I’m sure they’ll at least take that posture. We’ll see if Fletcher bites and gives an asset for them to take JvR.

But even if they take ghost, that clears some cap space which would be useful.

That extra money would be useful for next season but then we have to clear another 5 million at least to pay Couts after next year.

 

[lasgop8]

Bacon Happy 4-20 !!!

 

[awaz]

That extra money would be useful for next season but then we have to clear another 5 million at least to pay Couts after next year.

G is up at the same time as Couturier. So there will be money available that summer.

But still, clearing JvR’s 7 for this summer would be more beneficial than clearing Ghost’s 4.5.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Bacon Happy 4-20 !!!

Been 4-20 since the beginning of this free fall, lol.

 

[chy1127]

If i were them id take Ghost before i took JVR but thats just me

Hopefully they need a goal scorer more than a #5 - 6 dman. My recollection is the last expansion draft had a better crop of dmen available than forwards - goal scorers, so there is hope. Marchessault was the exception.

 

[lasgop8]

Hopefully they need a goal scorer more than a #5 - 6 dman. My recollection is the last expansion draft had a better crop of dmen available than forwards - goal scorers, so there is hope. Marchessault was the exception.

Id be more happy than anyone on this board if they took JVR but calling him a goal scorer is a little bit of a stretch. Right now he is tied for 59th in the league last year he was 88th and the year before he was 59th and next year he will be older. This year Ghost has 8 goals JVR only has 14. If im the Kraken i choose 28 year old Ghost over 32 year old JVR all day long. We may have to give them a pick to make sure JVR gets picked

 

[awaz]

Hopefully they need a goal scorer more than a #5 - 6 dman. My recollection is the last expansion draft had a better crop of dmen available than forwards - goal scorers, so there is hope. Marchessault was the exception.

And Marchessault was available because Florida totally botched the expansion draft. If I remember right, they gave Vegas Reilly Smith to ensure they'd take Marchessault. And they've both averaged 0.8 ppg since

 

[awaz]

Id be more happy than anyone on this board if they took JVR but calling him a goal scorer is a little bit of a stretch. Right now he is tied for 59th in the league last year he was 88th and the year before he was 59th and next year he will be older. This year Ghost has 8 goals JVR only has 14. If im the Kraken i choose 28 year old Ghost over 32 year old JVR all day long. We may have to give them a pick to make sure JVR gets picked

I mean if you look at it as there are 93 1st line forwards in the league (31 * 3) that puts JvR at a borderline 1st liner in terms of point production both years. It's not a perfect measurement by any means, but if you assume most teams are protecting top 6 players, JvR will likely be one of the better point producers they have available to them at the forward position.

Yes, offense is all he's good for. And in a vacuum I'd take Ghost 10 times out of 10 also. But they're trying to build a roster. There will probably be fewer JvR-like players available. Seattle will have to pick their spots.

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't take JvR. But I don't think it's a guarantee they wont. Because of that, I wouldn't offer more than like a 4th round pick to guarantee they take him.