2020-21 The Carter Hart Era PT2(The raising of the cup)

[lasgop8]

My biggest fear is if at this point Fletcher is convinced this team can compete for a playoff spot. I'm afraid he will make a drastic trade only to loose valuable pieces to use on better options down the road. If it takes you 2 periods to get warmed up against a team whom have lost 17 games in a row, you might as well not take the ice for the team on a 9 game win streak, hang on to your hats gents, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

We still have our annual 5-10 game winning streak coming to get Fletcher hyped even more about this club.

 

[chy1127]

Off topic, but if Taryn Hatcher smiled more often, she would be an absolute babe.

Thoughts?

I find her very hot with and w/o smile.

 

[lasgop8]

Well biggest reason is he's had injury after injury and is slower than Darrien Hatcher. But he's worked on his skating and wanted to make a jump to winger, so why Fletcher thought he brought in the right personal, and then found out he didn't well it kind of opened up doors for all sorts of shit!

He was crushing people out there. That was a nice change to see from this team.

 

[lasgop8]

Two points is two points it made that game worth watching. Ill expect two more points against them next game.

 

[awaz]

I'm saying it's time for new blood and new faces. Not holding the vets 100% accountable, but let's be honest, when was the last time you really saw any accountability on this team?

This is my primary issue with this topic though. Maybe it's just semantics, but everyone always goes back to "when was the last time..." or "it's been 10 years with this core and what have they done.."

You guys are holding G and Jake (primarily) responsible for the Flyers losing for 10 years. They were never supposed to be competitive for those 10 years, Hextall came out and said so in press conferences. And said so in his actions like trading BSchenn for future capital. I don't think it's fair to G and Jake to hold them responsible for "accountability" when the higher ups in the organization made it blatantly obvious that they weren't trying to win.

Changing the culture from having no accountability and rebuilding, to having accountability and trying to contend, is part of the rebuild. It's the part the Sabres and Oilers keep forgetting. And IMO, it's why the Flyers need guys like Niskanen who have been there and won cups. You need to inject winners into the lineup. The Sabres are a team full of losers. So they lose. Honestly, you can make the statement that the Flyers are a team full of losers too. That's why leading up to March I was pushing to add a guy with a cup win at the deadline. Hjalmarsson was my target then. But you don't have to gut the leadership group to bring a winning culture to the team. Especially if it means decreasing the overall talent of the roster, which is what I think you'd be doing in any trades that move G and Jake. You need to add high character, winners, to the lineup. And make it clear that it's time to win. Fletcher did a good job of that last season, adding Niskanen. Sitting on his hands this past offseason failed to add a winning mentality to the team but also sent a message that not improving is fine.

Changing the mentality of the team is critical. I agree with that 1000%. But I'm advocating doing that by ADDING to the team. Not subtracting. If you can find a deal out there where you trade Giroux for an equivalent talent, by all means, I'm on board. But for reasons I've laid out countless times before, I don't think that's the type of deal you're going to get for Giroux.

 

[awaz]

Dumping the core because 'leadership and accountability' just results in a less talented group of losers. The only way to change the culture is to bring in winners. If it takes trading G/Jake to do that, OK. But I don't think it does. And I think they're more valuable than what the Flyers would get in return.

 

[lasgop8]

Dumping the core because 'leadership and accountability' just results in a less talented group of losers. The only way to change the culture is to bring in winners. If it takes trading G/Jake to do that, OK. But I don't think it does. And I think they're more valuable than what the Flyers would get in return.

Gee has an NTC

 

[awaz]

Gee has an NTC

Another reason why arguing over "they need to get rid of G" is a waste of time.

 

[awaz]

The Flyers need a top pair d-man. After than, I'd try to fill the rest of the roster spots with guys who have won cups. I like Laughton a lot, Raffl too, but they're UFA's and I'd rather have cup winners in those spots. Or at least guys that have been on contenders for the past 4-5 years and have been truly chasing a cup.

 

[lasgop8]

Another reason why arguing over "they need to get rid of G" is a waste of time.

I dont think they should get rid of Gee as you stated we wont get the value back for him that we should. Plus hes still a good player

Im in favor of taking the C off his chest. Couts is the real leader and Prov would make a good leader as well

 

[awaz]

I dont think they should get rid of Gee as you stated we wont get the value back for him that we should. Plus hes still a good player

Im in favor of taking the C off his chest. Couts is the real leader and Prov would make a good leader as well

Ok we've talked about the 'C' and I think it's more symbolic than anything. But we can agree to disagree on that.

The other topic though, how are Coots or Prov better than Giroux as a leader? Coots in particular, has been around for a while now and the team has these issues. You think because he doesn't wear the 'C' he's off the hook for the team's inconsistencies? Couturier's been around for 9 seasons has worn an A since 2018, doesn't he share some of the responsibility to have the team ready to go night in and night out? Provorov wears an A too and he's been as inconsistent as anyone. One year high end, one year high-middle of the road to use your term, one year high-end, one year high-middle of the road.

To me, it's a lack of winning mentality. It doesn't change from taking the C from Giroux and giving it to one of the other guys that haven't won squat. If they brought in Jonathan Toews in the offseason and decided to strip the C from Giroux and give it to him, sure, that makes sense to me. But to give it to Couturier or Provorov, or any of the other guys currently on the roster, doesn't make sense to me.

 

[lasgop8]

Ok we've talked about the 'C' and I think it's more symbolic than anything. But we can agree to disagree on that.

The other topic though, how are Coots or Prov better than Giroux as a leader? Coots in particular, has been around for a while now and the team has these issues. You think because he doesn't wear the 'C' he's off the hook for the team's inconsistencies? Couturier's been around for 9 seasons has worn an A since 2018, doesn't he share some of the responsibility to have the team ready to go night in and night out? Provorov wears an A too and he's been as inconsistent as anyone. One year high end, one year high-middle of the road to use your term, one year high-end, one year high-middle of the road.

To me, it's a lack of winning mentality. It doesn't change from taking the C from Giroux and giving it to one of the other guys that haven't won squat. If they brought in Jonathan Toews in the offseason and decided to strip the C from Giroux and give it to him, sure, that makes sense to me. But to give it to Couturier or Provorov, or any of the other guys currently on the roster, doesn't make sense to me.

Players just tend to follow bigger more powerful people into battle and not little wimpy players.

They tend to follow players who battle in front of the goalie and not players who wont go within 10 feet of the net or corners in the playoffs

Just my opinion and i think we've had enough of having a wiimpy captain.

 

[awaz]

Players just tend to follow bigger more powerful people into battle and not little wimpy players.

They tend to follow players who battle in front of the goalie and not players who wont go within 10 feet of the net or corners in the playoffs

Just my opinion and i think we've had enough of having a wiimpy captain.

I'm not going to defend Giroux's toughness. He's not a brawler and he doesn't hit people. Those are facts. But he went to the net on the 2nd goal last night. And won a physical puck battle with Dahlin to start the play that ended in the winner last night. In fact, I'd bet money he won more puck battles than any other Flyer last night. He was a dominant force in the 3rd and OT. He's also played like 7 years straight without missing a game other than for COVID. Including playoff games where he had two broken wrists. He's not completely soft. My biggest issue with Giroux is that the compete level we saw in the 3rd and OT last night comes around far too rarely. And that is absolutely annoying/aggravating. When he plays with that compete level, essentially pissed off Giroux, he's exactly who I want leading the team. But again, it comes around too rarely.

Plus, one of the biggest problems the Flyers had in the playoffs was the defense getting hammered on the forecheck and falling apart. Provorov is a part of that. And it's a problem again this year.

Couturier, I can maybe see the argument. But again, he's been around for a long time now and an A for a while. And the same issues persist. If he were some silver bullet fix to this team's mentality, wouldn't it have shown up by now?

Changing the C doesn't fix anything to me. They need to add winners. I think adding that mentality to the team gets 'pissed off Giroux' to come out more often.

 

[purdue81]

Not sure how many saw this from AV



"This is not a rest day for Carter, this is a work day for him," Vigneault said Monday, according to NHL.com's Adam Kimelman.

"He's going to skate today in practice, stay on after, practice with the team tomorrow, stay on after. Wednesday he'll do the same thing ... he needs to work on his game. He needs to work harder, he needs to work better. I've had good conversations with him and Kim (Dillabaugh, goalie coach) about my expectations about his practice habits and him stopping the puck."

At least he’s consistent with his tough love.

 

[purdue81]

from awaz

“My biggest issue with Giroux is that the compete level we saw in the 3rd and OT last night comes around far too rarely.”

This is what totally pisses me off as well and makes me agree that we need winners. They don’t take any time off, unless they are physically unable

 

[lasgop8]

I'm not going to defend Giroux's toughness. He's not a brawler and he doesn't hit people. Those are facts. But he went to the net on the 2nd goal last night. And won a physical puck battle with Dahlin to start the play that ended in the winner last night. In fact, I'd bet money he won more puck battles than any other Flyer last night. He was a dominant force in the 3rd and OT. He's also played like 7 years straight without missing a game other than for COVID. Including playoff games where he had two broken wrists. He's not completely soft. My biggest issue with Giroux is that the compete level we saw in the 3rd and OT last night comes around far too rarely. And that is absolutely annoying/aggravating. When he plays with that compete level, essentially pissed off Giroux, he's exactly who I want leading the team. But again, it comes around too rarely.

Plus, one of the biggest problems the Flyers had in the playoffs was the defense getting hammered on the forecheck and falling apart. Provorov is a part of that. And it's a problem again this year.

Couturier, I can maybe see the argument. But again, he's been around for a long time now and an A for a while. And the same issues persist. If he were some silver bullet fix to this team's mentality, wouldn't it have shown up by now?

Changing the C doesn't fix anything to me. They need to add winners. I think adding that mentality to the team gets 'pissed off Giroux' to come out more often.

Thats funny you bring up third period Gee from last night.

We see that player maybe 10 games a year.

One of the reasons why we haven't put many 60 minute games in years

 

[lasgop8]

Not sure how many saw this from AV



"This is not a rest day for Carter, this is a work day for him," Vigneault said Monday, according to NHL.com's Adam Kimelman.

"He's going to skate today in practice, stay on after, practice with the team tomorrow, stay on after. Wednesday he'll do the same thing ... he needs to work on his game. He needs to work harder, he needs to work better. I've had good conversations with him and Kim (Dillabaugh, goalie coach) about my expectations about his practice habits and him stopping the puck."

At least he’s consistent with his tough love.

On ESPN bottom line they are quoting the part that AV says about Hart "He needs to work harder"

 

[awaz]

Thats funny you bring up third period Gee from last night.

We see that player maybe 10 games a year.

One of the reasons why we haven't put many 60 minute games in years

Absolutely agree. And like I said, it's aggravating as hell. But I don't see anyone stepping up to fix that on the current roster. Giroux included. So maybe you can make the argument that G is a bad leader by pointing to this example. But the same example applies to everyone that's been on the roster 'for years'.

So go out and add winners to the roster. Don't waste time sewing patches on different sweaters of the established core.

 

[lasgop8]

Absolutely agree. And like I said, it's aggravating as hell. But I don't see anyone stepping up to fix that on the current roster. Giroux included. So maybe you can make the argument that G is a bad leader by pointing to this example. But the same example applies to everyone that's been on the roster 'for years'.

So go out and add winners to the roster. Don't waste time sewing patches on different sweaters of the established core.

I have stated many times here over the years to blow this up and many many times lately that we should keep Couts Farabee Hart Prov and TK and send everyone else packing. So by you asking to go out and sign winners only reassures me that you have been reading my posts and coming around to my side.

As far as Gee being a bad leader its time to give someone else a shot and change from a wimpy leader to a bigger more strong player as a leader and that is Couts

 

[dspice07]

Ghost has been waived