2019 Rookie draft

[Stomp]

Remember when Russell Wilson tried to play football then fell back onto his baseball career?

Oh wait, he tried baseball 1st then fell back to the football side..... seems like we have a real world example of that working out vs the other scenario.

On the other hand, with the way contracts and such work at MLB, murray will be under control if he chooses football first, so there will be someone waiting to see if he's still got it.

If he's as special of an athlete as he and others think he is, kid will be fun to watch play either sport.

And @TREFF, I don't think anyone was downplaying what it takes to be a major leaguer, just that with MLB extensive minor league system, most think murray would get a shot somewhere, even if he stinks it up on the gridiron.

Here's my thing why I think he chooses baseball over football: the hits. Everyone loves to deal them out, no one wants to take them on the chin, in both sports.

He never stopped playing football though, so thats not really an example of what he's talking about.

 

[tlance]

I'm sorry I blew up, but I felt myself getting there, and had to remove myself from the convo before I did say something stupid.

Slept on it, haven't changed my thoughts or feelings. But calmer.

Bottom line, saying that a sport can just be walked away from for a couple/few years, and then backed back up like a snap of the fingers, is insulting to every athlete that's ever played it. And I'm sorry that you aren't seeing that, even if its not your point or what you're trying to convey at all, which is why it got so damned frustrating. I don't care if you're Michael Jordan, Bo Jackson, or a Tim Tebow, its never just pick it back up and expect to succeed. Especially the way it is these days, if you're succeeding in baseball, its because you're doing baseball damned near 24/7, 356. Just being a superior athlete only gets you so far, and it ain't the majors.

I've said peace, again, sorry I blew up, I'll let it lie

I hear you and really appreciate this post.

But this is not the run of the mill prospect we are discussing here. Nobody is saying that the average prospect can take 3 years away and still have a career to come back to.

As I said before, the Tebow example doesn't really work because:

1) Murray is currently much better at baseball than Tebow was when he quit
2) Tebow took 11 years off

I will provide an example of a blue chip prospect who took time off and had a pretty good career. Josh Hamilton spent 3 years away from baseball battling drug addiction and returned to post multiple MVP caliber seasons.

Not all prospects are created equal. If he takes all this time it won't be easy for him to overcome it, but because of his prodigious talent, it is a possibilty. He is playing with a stacked deck because of all the tools he has.

In other words, don't take this as a slap in the face to pro baseball players. It isn't. But there are guys who have the talent to take time away and still make it like Hamilton did. Murray could be one of those guys. Josh Gordon is another example in the football world. His reason for eventually failing wasn't his talent or his performance, it was his demons getting the best of him.

 

[TREFF]

I hear you and really appreciate this post.

But this is not the run of the mill prospect we are discussing here. Nobody is saying that the average prospect can take 3 years away and still have a career to come back to.

As I said before, the Tebow example doesn't really work because:

1) Murray is currently much better at baseball than Tebow was when he quit
2) Tebow took 11 years off

I will provide an example of a blue chip prospect who took time off and had a pretty good career. Josh Hamilton spent 3 years away from baseball battling drug addiction and returned to post multiple MVP caliber seasons.

Not all prospects are created equal. If he takes all this time it won't be easy for him to overcome it, but because of his prodigious talent, it is a possibilty. He is playing with a stacked deck because of all the tools he has.

In other words, don't take this as a slap in the face to pro baseball players. It isn't. But there are guys who have the talent to take time away and still make it like Hamilton did. Murray could be one of those guys. Josh Gordon is another example in the football world. His reason for eventually failing wasn't his talent or his performance, it was his demons getting the best of him.

Josh Hamilton was still a baseball player the entire three years, actively playing or not, he didn't devote his mind and body to a different profession. I don't know what he was doing with his free time whole going through rehab, but I'm sure it wasn't strapping on pads and hitting a tackling dummy, or studying film on diagnosing a cover two. Having been a ball player, anytime i battled any personal turmoil, I know spent a ton of time in batting cages, damned good stress reliever. That's what I'd put my five bucks on.

And again, what I was upset about had nothing to do with Murray, or any one specific person, its the general idea that the MLB is a "no big deal, easy fall back" option. So no amount of comparisons, vague or ideal, are going to erase any of that.
So instead of continuing to attempt to convince me of your point, how about we just come to the realization that no matter what way you say it, it boils down to treating baseball like a second class profession to my ears, agree to disagree, and drop it?

But if we could get back on the actual Murray track..is he really that great of a prospect? As I heard Mark Schlereth put it yesterday on the radio, "If he's 5'11", I'm Andre the Giant, more like 5' 8"-9" ". One year of starting experience, in Oklahoma, where virtually every pre snap read is fed to you from the sidelines, and in the Big12, where D is little more than an idea. Plenty of scouts have said they think 2nd round at best, some even lower, and in a suppossed QB weak draft, in a QB desperate league, that doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in his " studliness" in my book.

Maybe he's yet another exception to the rule of short QB's can't play in the NFL, maybe he isn't, But when there's debate is to even being a day one pick, with this gaggle of clowns at QB?? I definitely have doubts

 

[tlance]

Josh Hamilton was still a baseball player the entire three years, actively playing or not, he didn't devote his mind and body to a different profession. I don't know what he was doing with his free time whole going through rehab, but I'm sure it wasn't strapping on pads and hitting a tackling dummy, or studying film on diagnosing a cover two. Having been a ball player, anytime i battled any personal turmoil, I know spent a ton of time in batting cages, damned good stress reliever. That's what I'd put my five bucks on.

And again, what I was upset about had nothing to do with Murray, or any one specific person, its the general idea that the MLB is a "no big deal, easy fall back" option. So no amount of comparisons, vague or ideal, are going to erase any of that.
So instead of continuing to attempt to convince me of your point, how about we just come to the realization that no matter what way you say it, it boils down to treating baseball like a second class profession to my ears, agree to disagree, and drop it?

But if we could get back on the actual Murray track..is he really that great of a prospect? As I heard Mark Schlereth put it yesterday on the radio, "If he's 5'11", I'm Andre the Giant, more like 5' 8"-9" ". One year of starting experience, in Oklahoma, where virtually every pre snap read is fed to you from the sidelines, and in the Big12, where D is little more than an idea. Plenty of scouts have said they think 2nd round at best, some even lower, and in a suppossed QB weak draft, in a QB desperate league, that doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in his " studliness" in my book.

Maybe he's yet another exception to the rule of short QB's can't play in the NFL, maybe he isn't, But when there's debate is to even being a day one pick, with this gaggle of clowns at QB?? I definitely have doubts

I may have missed it, but I don't think anybody ever said or implied MLB was an easy fallback option. I certainly didn't.

What I did imply is that the learning curve for a QB is probably steeper than any position in any sport. So a second career in football is a lot less likely. And Josh Hamilton was strung out on drugs. I am sure he worked out some, but I am also quite certain that most of his time away was devoted to getting his life in order. It is not realistic to assume he was training consistently over that span.

If Murray isn't a top 15 pick, he probably shouldn't choose football. My position was never about how likely he was to succeed and all about rookie contract structures in football vs. baseball. That is all.

 

[TREFF]

I may have missed it, but I don't think anybody ever said or implied MLB was an easy fallback option. I certainly didn't.

What I did imply is that the learning curve for a QB is probably steeper than any position in any sport. So a second career in football is a lot less likely. And Josh Hamilton was strung out on drugs. I am sure he worked out some, but I am also quite certain that most of his time away was devoted to getting his life in order. It is not realistic to assume he was training consistently over that span.

If Murray isn't a top 15 pick, he probably shouldn't choose football. My position was never about how likely he was to succeed and all about rookie contract structures in football vs. baseball. That is all.

Not to further the debate, just to clarify what I'm talking about..statements such as this..

Yep.

He would be foolish to choose baseball now. He will be first or 2nd QB off the board. Baseball salaries are strongly controlled up through the first 5-6 years of MLB service. It would take Murray at least 8 years to make anything close to what he will get through his rookie deal in football. And if he is good enough to get a 2nd contract, it will be $25 million plus.

If not, like you said. Baseball awaits.

to me, the implication being..if football doesn't work out, no big deal, he can always just go back to baseball. I.e . baseball is no big deal, easy for him to just snap his fingers and be a pro baseball player. That's all

 

[SteelersPride]

Motion to quit discussing dual sport players.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Motion to quit discussing dual sport players.

Second!

 

[tlance]

Not to further the debate, just to clarify what I'm talking about..statements such as this..


to me, the implication being..if football doesn't work out, no big deal, he can always just go back to baseball. I.e . baseball is no big deal, easy for him to just snap his fingers and be a pro baseball player. That's all

That is a pretty big leap from what I actually said. Never said or implied it will be easy. But Murray's talent level is off the charts.

He 100% would be given every opportunity to succeed if he retired from football and began a pro baseball career in say, spring training 2023. HE wouldn't be as likely to succeed as if he picks baseball from the start, that is definitely true, but it is far from impossible and my take certainly shouldn't be viewed as an offensive opionion.

And I would bet on a talent like Murray making it after 4 years of time off before I bet on the vast majority of players taken in the MLB draft with no time off. Because VERY few have Murray's talent and most prospects don't ever make it to the show.

 

[TREFF]

fine whatever..can't even get a sorry for the misunderstanding..

Carry on

 

[Stomp]

2019 NFL Draft Class Preview - Running Backs (Part 1)

 

[TREFF]

2019 NFL Draft RB Stats Report - Rotoworld.com

An interesting inclusion in Rotoworld's list, that I haven't seen in virtually anyone else's, and he clocked in at #3 no less.
Devine Ozigbo. Being a Husker, I've watched this guy plenty. As an underclassman, he really did impress. Very powerful runner with massive tree trunk thighs, not the quickest or nimble though. When Scott Frost took over as HC, though, it appeared he lost his job, as a senior, to a freshman scat back, but eventually returned to a time share role. I honestly don't see him translating well to today's NFL at all. Love the guy, but I'd be really surprised to see him as anything more than a situational player

 

[SmokingMonkey]

I've been coming around on Henderson from Memphis the more I've looked into things

 

[Bandit]

This is shocking to me. And it would also be a game changer in the football/baseball decision.

Seems a bit short sighted on MLB's part though. If Murray gets a big league deal right away, it won't be long before all the top picks are holding out for similar deals. Seems like a slippery slope to me.

I actually think shocking isn't a big enough word. I just can't believe that MLB would let this go, especially since all baseball contracts are guaranteed.

 

[SteelersPride]

I've been coming around on Henderson from Memphis the more I've looked into things

I’m. It sold at all on him yet

 

[TREFF]

I actually think shocking isn't a big enough word. I just can't believe that MLB would let this go, especially since all baseball contracts are guaranteed.

Players union runs the show in "The Show", nothing a player does and gets away with surprises me

 

[SteelersPride]

Players union runs the show in "The Show", nothing a player does and gets away with surprises me

god is that true

 

[SteelersPride]

funny RB rankings are all over the place because no ones stood totally out. But there is some really great depth, with maybe not a "zeke" at the top but some really good rb's

most are locking in on the 2 bama backs, montgomery -iowa state, justice hill Ok state

i cant disagree some are on benny snell who i feel is good but lacks some explosiveness at the next level

the BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG wild card for me is rodney anderson. If he has good workouts, and shows hes healed. He may sky rocket to the top of these boards. If he wasnt hurt, and played this year, dude would likely be a top 15 pick

 

[TREFF]

surely there will be a combine darling that'll get peeps excited. Doesn't mean he'll be a smart pick, but it'll be nice to get some really buzz going.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

what I like most about Snell is that he carried the load against the SEC defenses this year.
yeah, his YPC wasn't great, but he piled up the touches and was still productive for most of the season.

and in the beginning of the season, Kentucky was actually nursing some leads and he was just killing the clock. that usually plummets a RB's YPC (but not always)

 

[SteelersPride]

what I like most about Snell is that he carried the load against the SEC defenses this year.
yeah, his YPC wasn't great, but he piled up the touches and was still productive for most of the season.

and in the beginning of the season, Kentucky was actually nursing some leads and he was just killing the clock. that usually plummets a RB's YPC (but not always)

He’s kinda a plodder