2019 Patriot Free Agents

[Shoeshine Boy]

Only 19th in FG % and 24th in touchback % this year. I'd like more out of my kicker if I'm paying at the top of the market.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Only 19th in FG % and 24th in touchback % this year. I'd like more out of my kicker if I'm paying at the top of the market.

These stats matter not especially the touchbacks. BB has said before there are time he feels kicking the ball higher and short of the goal line is a better strategy. As for filed goals there are a lot of factors, bobble snaps, poor ball placement, distance, wind, weather etc. If he is asked to kick more attempts from 40+ or 50+ yard those numbers become skewed.

Just feels to me people are undervaluing what he brings to the table

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Do you think he's the best kicker in the league? At the very least do you think what he brings to the table is indisputably worth $5+MM per season when plenty of other players are bringing equal amounts to the table for less than $1MM? Do you have very strong confidence when he trots onto the field for an important kick that he is going to make it? I feel like you should feel pretty good the answers to all those questions are 'yes' if you're paying someone at the top of the market...and I don't think many people would say that is the case for them.

I mean, I already said he's a good kicker...I'm not disputing that. My point is, does he deserve to continue to be the highest-paid kicker in the league, since that is what will be required to retain him?

 

[YankeeRebel]

Do you think he's the best kicker in the league? At the very least do you think what he brings to the table is indisputably worth $5+MM per season when plenty of other players are bringing equal amounts to the table for less than $1MM? Do you have very strong confidence when he trots onto the field for an important kick that he is going to make it? I feel like you should feel pretty good the answers to all those questions are 'yes' if you're paying someone at the top of the market...and I don't think many people would say that is the case for them.

I mean, I already said he's a good kicker...I'm not disputing that. My point is, does he deserve to continue to be the highest-paid kicker in the league, since that is what will be required to retain him?

Yes I do and so do the Pats. Look his is a specialty, a lot of guys can block, and tackle how many of those guys can kick a 40 yard field goal when you're down by 2 with 14 seconds left? So yeah I do feel he is worth it.

 

[BigKen]

I mean, I already said he's a good kicker...I'm not disputing that. My point is, does he deserve to continue to be the highest-paid kicker in the league, since that is what will be required to retain him?

Maybe he should do what Venatari did, go indoors for half a season??

 

[NWPATSFAN]

He's good, but not good enough to continue on as the highest-paid kicker in the league. They can get at least 95% of the production for less than a quarter the cost, those cap dollars are better spent elsewhere at this point.

I disagree. Look at the number of missed PATs and FGs by other teams. Ski is solid. STs don't necessarily win games but they sure can lose them. Like drafting O linemen STs aren't sexy until you need them. NE has been spoiled with back-to-back great kickers.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Do you think he's the best kicker in the league? At the very least do you think what he brings to the table is indisputably worth $5+MM per season when plenty of other players are bringing equal amounts to the table for less than $1MM? Do you have very strong confidence when he trots onto the field for an important kick that he is going to make it? I feel like you should feel pretty good the answers to all those questions are 'yes' if you're paying someone at the top of the market...and I don't think many people would say that is the case for them.

I mean, I already said he's a good kicker...I'm not disputing that. My point is, does he deserve to continue to be the highest-paid kicker in the league, since that is what will be required to retain him?

I'm not sure he gets another $5M contract you are speculating.

So how much would you spend to retain a proven kicker? Who has kicked in the biggest games and is always playing in nationally televised games?

Yes I feel confident trotting Ski out there.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

I'm not sure he gets another $5M contract you are speculating.

So how much would you spend to retain a proven kicker? Who has kicked in the biggest games and is always playing in nationally televised games?

Yes I feel confident trotting Ski out there.

If he’s that good then there’s no reason to believe he’ll get (or take) less than what he’s making now.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

I disagree. Look at the number of missed PATs and FGs by other teams. Ski is solid. STs don't necessarily win games but they sure can lose them. Like drafting O linemen STs aren't sexy until you need them. NE has been spoiled with back-to-back great kickers.

Yes he’s solid, I’ve said so multiple times already. But is he the BEST? That’s what you’re paying for. You can get “solid” for a lot less than what they’re paying Gostkowski.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

If he’s that good then there’s no reason to believe he’ll get (or take) less than what he’s making now.

Except he's now 4 years older and his #s have declined slightly. You're still speculating. He may get it somewhere else, doubtful but maybe?

So how much is he worth? How long of a contract would you give him?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Yes he’s solid, I’ve said so multiple times already. But is he the BEST? That’s what you’re paying for. You can get “solid” for a lot less than what they’re paying Gostkowski.

OK I'll play along.
Like who? Who are you getting that has been or will be that consistent?
What's he worth to you?

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Except he's now 4 years older and his #s have declined slightly. You're still speculating. He may get it somewhere else, doubtful but maybe?

So how much is he worth? How long of a contract would you give him?

Well I'm confused now...is he older and not as good, or is he the best kicker in the league? Of course I'm speculating, so are you...my speculation is at least based on the history of negotiation of sports contracts...if he's the highest-paid in the league already, and still deserving of being the highest-paid, then why in the world would he take less than that? If the Pats won't pay him at the top of the market and someone else will, then what?

I wouldn't give him a contract...that was the whole point of the discussion coming off of Ken's original assertion of letting him walk. He's solid but fungilble. If a team does it's homework - a supposed strength of this franchise - then they should be able to find the next guy just like they did with Gostkowski when they needed to replace AV. There's always decent kickers available. Phil Dawson's been a good kicker for a long time in this league, he was a street FA this year. Dan Bailey, same thing. And IIRC he was the most accurate kicker in the history of the league when the Cowboys let him go for a rookie. Most kickers bounce around a bit before they settle in somewhere (Robbie Gould is a good example, Jake Elliott another more recent one). The Falcons lost their kicker for a few weeks and in walked Giorgio friggen Tavechio and nailed every kick he tried. Remember when Gostkowski hurt his quad and they signed Shayne Graham off the street for the league minimum and he went 12-12 on FG's? Sure, he missed a couple XP's and wasn't quite as good on KO's, but they paid him about $200K for that, and literally took him off the unemployment line in the middle of the season. You telling me with a whole off-season this team can't find a competent veteran kicker for a million or so bucks, or draft another competent rookie that'll cost even less just like they did with Gostkowski 12 years ago? I have faith that they can. And I believe that they should so those extra millions of cap dollars can be spent improving the team elsewhere.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

They

I disagree. Look at the number of missed PATs and FGs by other teams. Ski is solid. STs don't necessarily win games but they sure can lose them. Like drafting O linemen STs aren't sexy until you need them. NE has been spoiled with back-to-back great kickers.

They have lost a couple games this season by a missed field goal or a missed PAT...or both.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Well I'm confused now...is he older and not as good, or is he the best kicker in the league? Of course I'm speculating, so are you...my speculation is at least based on the history of negotiation of sports contracts...if he's the highest-paid in the league already, and still deserving of being the highest-paid, then why in the world would he take less than that? If the Pats won't pay him at the top of the market and someone else will, then what?

I wouldn't give him a contract...that was the whole point of the discussion coming off of Ken's original assertion of letting him walk. He's solid but fungilble. If a team does it's homework - a supposed strength of this franchise - then they should be able to find the next guy just like they did with Gostkowski when they needed to replace AV. There's always decent kickers available. Phil Dawson's been a good kicker for a long time in this league, he was a street FA this year. Dan Bailey, same thing. And IIRC he was the most accurate kicker in the history of the league when the Cowboys let him go for a rookie. Most kickers bounce around a bit before they settle in somewhere (Robbie Gould is a good example, Jake Elliott another more recent one). The Falcons lost their kicker for a few weeks and in walked Giorgio friggen Tavechio and nailed every kick he tried. Remember when Gostkowski hurt his quad and they signed Shayne Graham off the street for the league minimum and he went 12-12 on FG's? Sure, he missed a couple XP's and wasn't quite as good on KO's, but they paid him about $200K for that, and literally took him off the unemployment line in the middle of the season. You telling me with a whole off-season this team can't find a competent veteran kicker for a million or so bucks, or draft another competent rookie that'll cost even less just like they did with Gostkowski 12 years ago? I have faith that they can. And I believe that they should so those extra millions of cap dollars can be spent improving the team elsewhere.

First I never said he was the best kicker in the league. He was given his current contract when he was. He's earned every penny IMO. He still ranks top 5 in most categories. It's not like he's been awful.
So what I think you're saying is you would NOT offer him a contract at any price? Is that what you just said? If that's in fact your opinion I'm not sure we can keep discussing this. That's really an asinine comment. Are you sure you understand contract negotiations. Players get less as they age and their #s drop. That doesn't mean they're washed up.
Have you looked at the list of FA for 2019? So I'll ask again who would you take at what price?
I do agree there are kickers to be had if you're lucky enough to find one. Do you really want to waste Brady's potential last couple years on an unproven hope?
As I mentioned STs are not sexy until they start costing you games. You need to invest in them.
I've already said if someone offers him more then BB is willing to give him, he may walk. Then again maybe he really likes winning? I'm good either way and will wish him well.

 

[Southieinnc]

Not sure I agree with this. He is still a top kicker in this league.

I don't agree either. Find a replacement first - not not a free agent

 

[NWPATSFAN]

They



They have lost a couple games this season by a missed field goal or a missed PAT...or both.

You're supporting my arguement. STs can lose games.
Ski has missed one PAT (this season) ONE. It was against Mia, where he also missef one of his five FGs this season. It was the Mia Miracle that lost that game not the Ski misses.
He missed a FG in the Ten loss. The final score was 34-10. Hardly a loss caused by a missed FG.
Missed a FG in the Minn game. NE won.
Missed a FG in the 31-20 loss to Jax. His fault?
Missed one in Buf. Ne won.
Four of those misses were from 50+.

There are two starters who haven't missed a PAT this season (Prater and McManus). Everyone else has at least one. Many have missed multiple.

FGs everyone has at least one miss. Most have multiple.

 

[Southieinnc]

These stats matter not especially the touchbacks. BB has said before there are time he feels kicking the ball higher and short of the goal line is a better strategy. As for filed goals there are a lot of factors, bobble snaps, poor ball placement, distance, wind, weather etc. If he is asked to kick more attempts from 40+ or 50+ yard those numbers become skewed.

Just feels to me people are undervaluing what he brings to the table

The detractors are undervaluing - the supporters are over-valuing.....

 

[Yankee Traveler]

You're supporting my arguement. .

Intentionally.

That said, If they had not left those 4 points on the field, the miracle would have never happened.
Missed kicks may have not been the only cause of the loss, but they were a direct cause.

Yes, I understand that by leaving it up to the kicker to score three points means the rest of the offense failed to score seven, which also is a direct cause of the loss.

But not as impactful as a interception or a missed field goal.


He's got ONE job.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I don't agree either. Find a replacement first - not not a free agent

I fully believe Bill will draft or find training camp competition for Ghost.

 

[YankeeRebel]

I fully believe Bill will draft or find training camp competition for Ghost.

I would be surprised if that happens, at least as far as drafting a kicker.