2019 Offseason Thread

[WiggyRuss]

No doubt they are following our tanking model. Though I'm sure we didn't inventit.

will be rough, but can pay off if they stick to it.

did I ever tell you about the story about when my bro asked Billy Beane about Paul D?

no whath e say?

 

[bksballer89]

This intentional foul rule in FIBA is HORRIBLE

 

[Black Adam]

Yeah, I've never really understood the point of getting your qb before you have an o-line who can protect him. You're just risking getting him beat up and/or maybe ruin his confidence.

On the one hand, I guess you have to grab a potentially great qb when you can. But, as you point out, having a great qb doesn't mean much if your o-line sucks.

"i damn near got KILLDID out there"- David Carr

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, I've never really understood the point of getting your qb before you have an o-line who can protect him. You're just risking getting him beat up and/or maybe ruin his confidence.

On the one hand, I guess you have to grab a potentially great qb when you can. But, as you point out, having a great qb doesn't mean much if your o-line sucks.

A great QB will help the O-line as much as they help them.

Remember LeCharles Bentley being asked how to improve line play and he said find a QB who makes quick decisions.

 

[dtgold88]

no whath e say?

Beane was speaking at a seminar and he spoke to him after it. was right after we hired Dipodesta. I was told about 2 questions he asked him.....

Q: What do you think of Paul D?
A: He's the smartest guy I've ever met and it's not close

Q: Will he succeed?
A: If they let him

 

[WiggyRuss]

Beane was speaking at a seminar and he spoke to him after it. was right after we hired Dipodesta. I was told about 2 questions he asked him.....

Q: What do you think of Paul D?
A: He's the smartest guy I've ever met and it's not close

Q: Will he succeed?
A: If they let him

having a pure analytics guy like Paul D. and a pure football guy like Dorsey is a nice combo. Especially since it seems they work well together.

They have done a great job analyzing talent and making the right picks- for the most part. There of course have been misses- but for the most part they have done an amazing job taking a team from ZERO wins 2 seasons ago- to the point that they are at today.

 

[trojanfan12]

A great QB will help the O-line as much as they help them.

Remember LeCharles Bentley being asked how to improve line play and he said find a QB who makes quick decisions.

True to a point. I think that works better if it's a veteran qb behind a bad o-line. Rookies and 2nd year players usually struggle with quick decisions.

 

[dtgold88]

True to a point. I think that works better if it's a veteran qb behind a bad o-line. Rookies and 2nd year players usually struggle with quick decisions.

Havin

I would think that would be the case, but not sure you saw my earlier post. Browns QBs were sacked 20+ times first 8 weeks last season. Kitchens replaced Haley as OC and with same personnel rookie Baker was sacked 5 times last 8 games. In fact, more amazing is he was only hit 9 times. Next closest was 28.

 

[Black Adam]

True to a point. I think that works better if it's a veteran qb behind a bad o-line. Rookies and 2nd year players usually struggle with quick decisions.

agreed...

young QB's behind bad O-lines transform from QB's to paid tackling dummies...

can be rather painful to watch...

 

[dtgold88]

having a pure analytics guy like Paul D. and a pure football guy like Dorsey is a nice combo. Especially since it seems they work well together.

They have done a great job analyzing talent and making the right picks- for the most part. There of course have been misses- but for the most part they have done an amazing job taking a team from ZERO wins 2 seasons ago- to the point that they are at today.

No doubt...a shame for him Sashi had to be the fall guy as I'm sure he played a huge role in where they are now. He was never supposed to be a GM (opening presser said plan is find a credible GM) and he wasn't. He was President. Would have been nice if he could have stayed and been in same Dept. as Pauly D but not a big deal.

Guessing Paul D is very good when it comes to knowing what to pay players and what to offer in deals. Dorsey I'm sure has more to do with identifying players to pick acquire.

 

[bksballer89]

These 2 games in FIBA World Cup got me pumped for NBA season.

2 really good competitive games both decided by 1 point

 

[dtgold88]

agreed...

BAD QB's behind bad O-lines transform from QB's to paid tackling dummies...

can be rather painful to watch...

FIFY

That said, most young QBs start as bad QBs.

 

[trojanfan12]

I would think that would be the case, but not sure you saw my earlier post. Browns QBs were sacked 20+ times first 8 weeks last season. Kitchens replaced Haley as OC and with same personnel rookie Baker was sacked 5 times last 8 games. In fact, more amazing is he was only hit 9 times. Next closest was 28.

Probably a couple of things at play there.

First, Baker is mobile and strong. From the little I saw of him, he looked like he uses his mobility like Russell Wilson. He scrambles to keep plays alive rather than try to win with his legs. That's smart and shows he ahead of the curve for a young qb.

Play calling can help both the o-line and the qb. My guess would be that Kitchens probably called more plays designed to get the ball out quickly.

 

[trojanfan12]

agreed...

young QB's behind bad O-lines transform from QB's to paid tackling dummies...

can be rather painful to watch...

I remember Aikman's first year with a 1-15 Cowboys team. That poor guy took a brutal beating. It was so bad, I felt bad for him even though he was a Bruin. lol

 

[dtgold88]

Probably a couple of things at play there.

First, Baker is mobile and strong. From the little I saw of him, he looked like he uses his mobility like Russell Wilson. He scrambles to keep plays alive rather than try to win with his legs. That's smart and shows he ahead of the curve for a young qb.

Play calling can help both the o-line and the qb. My guess would be that Kitchens probably called more plays designed to get the ball out quickly.

No doubt that was what Kitchens did. Scheme and QB often makes the line. Not the other way around. Isn't to say you don't want stud O-lineman. However, the Browns had some 4-5 win seasons with Joe Thomas, Mack, Schwartz and Bitonio on the line.

Running game was also solid after they started playing Chubb.

 

[dtgold88]

I remember Aikman's first year with a 1-15 Cowboys team. That poor guy took a brutal beating. It was so bad, I felt bad for him even though he was a Bruin. lol

Going by memory, think he was 0-11 with 9 TDs and 18 INTs.

which is why I think the notion a team can ruin a QB is absurd. If that guy wasn't ruined no one is/was (they just are not very good).

 

[trojanfan12]

No doubt that was what Kitchens did. Scheme and QB often makes the line. Not the other way around. Isn't to say you don't want stud O-lineman. However, the Browns had some 4-5 win seasons with Joe Thomas, Mack, Schwartz and Bitonio on the line.

Running game was also solid after they started playing Chubb.

Yeah, you could see the improvement in the 2nd half of the season on all fronts. A good running game really helps too.

No doubt that scheme and QB can make an o-line better. But if you can have a good o-line and combine that with scheme and QB, you're a contender. The Browns are definitely on the right track with that.

 

[trojanfan12]

Going by memory, think he was 0-11 with 9 TDs and 18 INTs.

which is why I think the notion a team can ruin a QB is absurd. If that guy wasn't ruined no one is/was (they just are not very good).

Yes and no. Aikman is a bit of an outlier, imo. It definitely speaks to how tough (physically and mentally) he was though.

But that's not exactly how you want to go about developing a qb. lol

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, you could see the improvement in the 2nd half of the season on all fronts. A good running game really helps too.

No doubt that scheme and QB can make an o-line better. But if you can have a good o-line and combine that with scheme and QB, you're a contender. The Browns are definitely on the right track with that.

Truth be told, I'm hoping it's more QB making the line and Baker improves as I see 2-3 weak links on the O-line this year.

That said, I recall seasons where Rodgers and Big Ben (among others) were said to have poor lines and they still had very good seasons.

 

[dtgold88]

Yes and no. Aikman is a bit of an outlier, imo. It definitely speaks to how tough (physically and mentally) he was though.

But that's not exactly how you want to go about developing a qb. lol

No doubt...not ideal. My point was if adversity one year ruined a QB he wasn't gonna be good anyway. Exceptions might be Carr and Couch as they were beat up physically and didn't recover.

Heard it all the time the Browns ruined QBs (and Baker would suffer the same fate) when the fact is the QBs probably just were not very good.