2019 Offseason Thread

[tlance]

Bosh's teams were defniitely more talented-

in his last year in Toronto the starters around him were : Barganini, Jarret Jack/Calderon, Turkoglu, DeRozan.

The year before that they made some moves--- but the main starteres were Bargnani, Shawn Marion, Jermaine ONeil, Calderon, Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon.

That isn’t much better when you consider O’Neal and Marion were running on fumes and played about 50 games combined between the two of them that season.

Bigger names, but Bargnani was Bosh’s best teammate. DeRozan didn’t break out until after Bosh left.

 

[tlance]

Love's minne teams were a joke.

In his last season there the starting lineup around him was: an ancient Kevin Martin, Nikola Pekovic, Corey Brower and Ricky Rubio. Thats really gross.

That previous season he was injured for all but 18 games

the previous season the starters around him were: Pekovic, Luke Ridnour, Wesley Johnson, and some combination of Darko, Rubio and Martell Webster.

the season before that? hilariously bad-----

look at the fucking roster around Love in '10-'11

the starters were:
PG: Luke Ridnour
SG: Wesley Johnson
SF: Michael Beasley
PF: Kevin Love
C: Darko

holy fuck is that bad. That is one of the worst starting lineups around a star I can ever remember.

That team that you call “really gross” won more games without Love in 2013 than any of the prior teams won with him.

And I admit those early teams were horrible.

But let’s not act like Bosh had a good supporting cast. He did not.

 

[Black Adam]

what a badass

#hemeantMoneyMahomes

 

[lebron23james]

That isn’t much better when you consider O’Neal and Marion were running on fumes and played about 50 games combined between the two of them that season.

Bigger names, but Bargnani was Bosh’s best teammate. DeRozan didn’t break out until after Bosh left.

Your argument has been destroyed. Just give it a rest. If you can't back up your opinions with stats and facts, then just stop. A team making the playoffs in different conferences is a pretty stupid argument, even for somebody as dumb as shaqdaddy

 

[dtgold88]

He was a regular season legend but couldn't cut when it counted, in the playoffs. Discuss why he couldn't deliver in the playoffs even as a higher seed and why that upsets you.

That is excellent deflection but try and stay focused and answer the question. Here it is again.

He played with very little talent....and was able to coax playoff seasons. Can anyone from your list say the same as a true #1?

 

[dtgold88]

How are you so sure?
Maybe the bottom of the East just started tanking sooner and more effectively.

OK, wouldn't teams trying to lose make them weak while playing the teams trying to win?

 

[dtgold88]

Stats on shitty losing teams are often just that.
Both assumed role of 3rd options on LeBron’s teams.
Bosh was more important, and better.
Cavs were pulling Love in 4th qtr, if I recall.

First comparison was Love's Minny and Bosh's Toronto teams...mostly unimpressive teams.

Bosh and Love were both solid 3rd options

always? Entire quarters? You recall wrong

 

[dtgold88]

Alot of what Bosh did wasn’t seen on stat sheets.
My guess is that LeBron would easily pick Bosh, if given the choice.

Great...but it's no more than a guess which means little or even nothing.

 

[dtgold88]

You also only looked at 8 teams in each conference.

When looking at a team as bad as Minnesota was, you have to look lower too.

In 2008, 4 West teams had 23 wins or less, only 2 East teams
In 2009, 1 East team finished with fewer than 32 wins, 6 West teams had fewer than 30, 5 had 24 or less.
In 2010 the West was clearly better top and bottom. But Bosh’s Raptors won 40 and missed the playoffs by 1 game while Love’s Wolves won 15.
2011 had 4 East teams with 24 wins or less and only 2 West, but Love’s Wolves had an NBA worst 17 wins.
2012 was about the same top to almost bottom aside from the Bobcats who were putrid.
2013 the West was significantly better again

But again, it does not begin to account for such a large win differential.

West vs. East those seasons was better than just a little better, wouldn't you say?

You made a mistake. Just a little one. No biggie.

 

[dtgold88]

Ding, ding, we have a winner.

If made up comments count, sure.....Cavs were not pulling Love in 4th and he was more often than not used down the stretch in games

 

[dtgold88]

and what round will the Cavs make it to... oh, nevermind...

At least they held serve with LA last year.

So we've got that going for us.

 

[dtgold88]

You aren’t capable of owning anybody

Makes it even more comical he owned you.

 

[dtgold88]

Defensive rating is a shitty stat.

That one team was comparable to Bosh’s better Toronto teams.

They also had some pretty solid underrated players around Love.

How do you explain all the 26 and under win seasons before the one decent 1?

Because Minnesota had an awful roster and played in the West. Same answer next time you ask.

 

[dtgold88]

Your argument has been destroyed. Just give it a rest. If you can't back up your opinions with stats and facts, then just stop. A team making the playoffs in different conferences is a pretty stupid argument, even for somebody as dumb as shaqdaddy

But he can come back with "uh...well.....stats don't matter and I say the West wasn't much better."

 

[dtgold88]

Apples to oranges type facts.

You honestly think LeBron would choose Love over Bosh?

which of these facts to which he replied would you call apples/oranges....

You said "the West wasn't that much better"

Those are your exact words....and they are false. Taking out the strike year the 8 seed in the West was on average just under 10 games better than the 8 seed in the East. That is a lot better.

And I agree in their last seasons Bosh's cast was not that much better.....probably why Love won 40 and so did Bosh. Only Love did it in a tougher West.

The only apples/oranges is comparing the East and West.

 

[dtgold88]

If both are healthy in their prime, Bosh was better suited to fill the role of 3rd option.
Neither, is good enough to ever lead a championship team.

while I believe the 2 are very close It's more likely Lebron would want Love as he can spread the floor better than Bosh, can rebound as well or better and is probably a better passer...no doubt on the outlet.

 

[dtgold88]

Bosh is the better defender but part of that is severely mitigated by his comparatively awful rebounding.

Bosh's 3 BEST rebounding years he averaged 10.7, 10.8 and 10.0--- the only 3 times in his career he ever had double digit rebounds. Love's 3 best are 15.2, 14.0 and 13.3.

In Bosh's career he had 305 3 pointers. Love made 190 in one season.

Love has had at least 9 rebounds a game every single season of his career. Bosh 4 times in 13 seasons.

Kevin Love might have the best combination of 3 point shooting and rebounding ability in NBA history in an ERA where those skills are paramount.

while I agree Love is the better player I could even accept they are very close and wouldn't crush someone for saying it's Bosh.

But thinking Lebron would choose Bosh, when Love is one of the best players in the league to be his teammate for his rebounding AND shooting as you mentioned.

 

[dtgold88]

Opinions are opinions.
Fact is Cavs chose to keep Love off the court during important times of playoff games, including Finals.

Was he ever out in a critical time? Probably...same true of Bosh.

Do you remember who was on the floor for the most critical moments in Game 7 vs. GS? Pretty big game if you recall.

 

[WiggyRuss]

But he can come back with "uh...well.....stats don't matter and I say the West wasn't much better."

the West wasnt much better? LOL

when the LSD is out of his system he should re-think that take.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

while I agree Love is the better player I could even accept they are very close and wouldn't crush someone for saying it's Bosh.

But thinking Lebron would choose Bosh, when Love is one of the best players in the league to be his teammate for his rebounding AND shooting as you mentioned.

Im not trying to change your opinion.
Im entitled to mine.
Hate to ruin your day, but nothing to argue about.