2019 Offseason Thread

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Point is, if the team refuses to believe he would leave, they need a push.

What makes you believe that?

You think they thought he was bluffing?

I mean, Heat knew James was leaving, Riley still tried to change his mind.

 

[shopson67]

Which means what in the real world?

He did say he was willing to stay in NY, so that was (and may still be, depending on this season) another option.

 

[shopson67]

Toronto and OKC are not free agent destinations so they had more reason to take that risk. Boston is a big time free agent destination so why am I trading my young guys who I value for a 1 year rental when I can attract actual free agents who want to play here?

Comparing Boston to OKC and Toronto is just silly.

1 is a big time free agent market. The other 2 are not

It made no sense for Boston.

Toronto is much larger than Boston, and now has 1 championship in their history (24 years)

Boston has 1 championship in the past 32 years.

Boston instead attracted an actual free agent that was a marginal improvement at best over the free agent that walked.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

He did say he was willing to stay in NY, so that was (and may still be, depending on this season) another option.

Whom?
I thought you were talking A.D.

 

[shopson67]

What makes you believe that?

You think they thought he was bluffing?

I mean, Heat knew James was leaving, Riley still tried to change his mind.

...and failed, but wasted time. Lakers were offering more for AD midseason than the Pelicans received in the offseason.

 

[shopson67]

Whom?
I thought you were talking A.D.

I am, of course.

 

[tlance]

...and failed, but wasted time. Lakers were offering more for AD midseason than the Pelicans received in the offseason.

No they were not.

#4 pick + 2 pick swaps is significantly better than a pick projected around 15 and Kuzma and no swaps.

Hitting the 4 pick improved their package immensely.

 

[dtgold88]

Not really especially in places like New Orleans and OKC where it is hard to attract free agents.

Huh? what does that have to do with anything? Just said he did NO a favor by letting them know he wont be staying and allowing them to try and get a haul for him.

 

[dtgold88]

Teams are quite aware of when their players will become FA.
Reaching to say they need to warned.

warned he will leave, not that he will be a FA. Reaching to say it would not be a benefit to be told they wont stay? Guy is planning to go and NO asks him his plans they'd rather be told "not sure" than "I'm leaving?"

 

[shopson67]

No they were not.

#4 pick + 2 pick swaps is significantly better than a pick projected around 15 and Kuzma and no swaps.

Hitting the 4 pick improved their package immensely.

In this draft? They traded that pick down to 8 and 17. You don't think Kuzma and 15 is better than 8 and 17? Pick swaps are going to prove largely worthless once AD signs that extension, as at best for the Pelicans both will be the playoffs. Next Lakers pick the Pels get is most likely in 2022, as the 2021 is protected from 8-30. Lakers position moved from desperation to strength and they were able to keep Kuzma out (and get that protection included).

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I am, of course.

So he’s willing to stay in NY, even though he’s not there....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

warned he will leave, not that he will be a FA. Reaching to say it would not be a benefit to be told they wont stay? Guy is planning to go and NO asks him his plans they'd rather be told "not sure" than "I'm leaving?"

Hypothetical.

Im sure any team would want to know for sure if a player was def leaving, if they were uncertain.

Its easily achieved at seasons end though, vs a player having a hissy fit right before trade deadline.

 

[CitySushi]

Agree with Shannon Sharpe right now. If Kerr and others don't like what AD did then front office shouldn't be able to trade players with multiple years left under contract either

This.

Any player should have the right to ask to be traded. However I think where I draw the line is when players ask to be traded to specific teams. If you want to remove yourself from your current situation, that's fine, but as a player under a contract you don't get to dictate where you are traded.

Additionally, there is a right and a wrong way to request a trade. A player should go to management quietly, while they try to figure out a situation that works. It decreases locker room tension and removes any distraction from the organization while they try to figure out something that works.

 

[dtgold88]

Hypothetical.

Im sure any team would want to know for sure if a player was def leaving, if they were uncertain.

Its easily achieved at seasons end though, vs a player having a hissy fit right before trade deadline.

Of course they'd rather know, which for some reason you said it wouldn't matter. And in this case it is not a hypothetical. It's what happened. AD knew he was leaving and let them know. And you think it wasn't helpful to know?

 

[tlance]

In this draft? They traded that pick down to 8 and 17. You don't think Kuzma and 15 is better than 8 and 17? Pick swaps are going to prove largely worthless once AD signs that extension, as at best for the Pelicans both will be the playoffs. Next Lakers pick the Pels get is most likely in 2022, as the 2021 is protected from 8-30. Lakers position moved from desperation to strength and they were able to keep Kuzma out (and get that protection included).

That trade down was a lot more than 2 picks.

They got another future first and dumped a bad contract.

And those swaps do have value whether you care to admit it or not.

It is far from a given that the Lakers will be a contender when those swaps hit.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Of course they'd rather know, which for some reason you said it wouldn't matter. And in this case it is not a hypothetical. It's what happened. AD knew he was leaving and let them know. And you think it wasn't helpful to know?

Fuck.
He wasn’t a FA.
Thats the issue/point.

He took them hostage, with 1.5 seasons left on his contract.

If he does it this season, then its a bit different, but last year? Nope?

Make these divas have a 15% salary return if they demand trades, or something to match their trade bonus, if owner decides.

 

[WiggyRuss]

This.

Any player should have the right to ask to be traded. However I think where I draw the line is when players ask to be traded to specific teams. If you want to remove yourself from your current situation, that's fine, but as a player under a contract you don't get to dictate where you are traded.

Additionally, there is a right and a wrong way to request a trade. A player should go to management quietly, while they try to figure out a situation that works. It decreases locker room tension and removes any distraction from the organization while they try to figure out something that works.

you guys are nuts.

its a game. The league has anti-trust exemptions because it is a game. Part of the attracation of that game is that trading is allowed in the league. If you want to- you can negotiate a no-trade clause into your contract. A player could without a doubt take a pay-cut to get a no trade clause if they wanted to--- or to have a no-trade clause that limits the teams they could get traded to.

A contract is about 2 things--- the team- whoever it is- agrees to pay you- and you agree to play and try and help the team win.

If you want the flexibility- sign a shorter contract- or negotiate a no trade clause.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That trade down was a lot more than 2 picks.

They got another future first and dumped a bad contract.

And those swaps do have value whether you care to admit it or not.

It is far from a given that the Lakers will be a contender when those swaps hit.

wow- we agree again? lol

not only that, but they were not offering 3 first rounders back then either. I think it was only 1 first rounder.

 

[CitySushi]

you guys are nuts.

its a game. The league has anti-trust exemptions because it is a game. Part of the attracation of that game is that trading is allowed in the league. If you want to- you can negotiate a no-trade clause into your contract. A player could without a doubt take a pay-cut to get a no trade clause if they wanted to--- or to have a no-trade clause that limits the teams they could get traded to.

A contract is about 2 things--- the team- whoever it is- agrees to pay you- and you agree to play and try and help the team win.

If you want the flexibility- sign a shorter contract- or negotiate a no trade clause.

I get that it's a tricky situation. It's hard to apply real world principles to a capped market place for your services. Additionally you're in a situation where you have a limited amount of years on your earning potential. So by taking shorter contracts, you're risking huge exposure.

I tend to view things more from a players stand point than an organization. If you're viewing from the organizations perspective, 100% I'd agree with you. But from a player stand point, it's completely opposite.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I get that it's a tricky situation. It's hard to apply real world principles to a capped market place for your services. Additionally you're in a situation where you have a limited amount of years on your earning potential. So by taking shorter contracts, you're risking huge exposure.

I tend to view things more from a players stand point than an organization. If you're viewing from the organizations perspective, 100% I'd agree with you. But from a player stand point, it's completely opposite.

Its wrong for the player to want the security without honoring the commitment.


I am a bit concerned though, that @WiggyRuss and I agree on this.