2019-2020 Official Regular Season Thread

[Black Adam]

Okay this is the worst starting 5 I can think of at the moment.

PG- Bryce Drew
SG- Swappy P
SF- Anthony Bennett
PF- Chris Dudley
C- Greg Kite

You know this skilled group of ballers is in alotta trouble when this fella's the best player.


View attachment 240191

lol, you just had to show that Swaggy klank...

 

[Wamu]

lol, you just had to show that Swaggy klank...

Yep.

 

[bksballer89]

 

[Heatles84]

Forget off the field.

On the field I believe they are comparable. Tua has trouble with decision making when his opponent isn’t completely outmatched.

This is a really blanket statement. More often than not, when you go against an elite defense, you're going to struggle. Here's the game log from this past year for Tua, only team he struggled against was LSU.

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/alabama-crimson-tide-team-game-log

and in that game he threw for 52% with 4 TDs and 1 INT....that was his worst game of the year where his stats were a bit inflated as they were down big to LSU at one point.

Guess who else struggled against LSU last year? Trevor Lawrence. And he's one of the best prospects to ever come through as a QB. Oklahoma's offense that was scoring 50+ ppg was stifled by LSU as well.

I'm fully aware that Tua's by no means a sure thing in the NFL. He comes with injury risk and he's a tad bit on the short side. Having said that, he's the most polished and talented QB that the Phins have had since Dan Marino and he's the best glimmer of hope we've had since then.

I also stand by my statement that Tua and Jameis are by no means the same player. Winston's work ethic and leadership traits were a major question mark at FSU, despite being an extremely talented player. Jameis didn't come in with the question marks that Tua's coming in with. But at least mentality hasn't been a shortcoming for Tua, which I'm going to ride with.

 

[tlance]

This is a really blanket statement. More often than not, when you go against an elite defense, you're going to struggle. Here's the game log from this past year for Tua, only team he struggled against was LSU.

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/alabama-crimson-tide-team-game-log

and in that game he threw for 52% with 4 TDs and 1 INT....that was his worst game of the year where his stats were a bit inflated as they were down big to LSU at one point.

Guess who else struggled against LSU last year? Trevor Lawrence. And he's one of the best prospects to ever come through as a QB. Oklahoma's offense that was scoring 50+ ppg was stifled by LSU as well.

I'm fully aware that Tua's by no means a sure thing in the NFL. He comes with injury risk and he's a tad bit on the short side. Having said that, he's the most polished and talented QB that the Phins have had since Dan Marino and he's the best glimmer of hope we've had since then.

I also stand by my statement that Tua and Jameis are by no means the same player. Winston's work ethic and leadership traits were a major question mark at FSU, despite being an extremely talented player. Jameis didn't come in with the question marks that Tua's coming in with. But at least mentality hasn't been a shortcoming for Tua, which I'm going to ride with.

Take it for what it is worth.

Tua going to bust. Not because of injuries. You heard it here first. Get back to me in about 4-5 years.

 

[WiggyRuss]

This is a really blanket statement. More often than not, when you go against an elite defense, you're going to struggle. Here's the game log from this past year for Tua, only team he struggled against was LSU.

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/alabama-crimson-tide-team-game-log

and in that game he threw for 52% with 4 TDs and 1 INT....that was his worst game of the year where his stats were a bit inflated as they were down big to LSU at one point.

Guess who else struggled against LSU last year? Trevor Lawrence. And he's one of the best prospects to ever come through as a QB. Oklahoma's offense that was scoring 50+ ppg was stifled by LSU as well.

I'm fully aware that Tua's by no means a sure thing in the NFL. He comes with injury risk and he's a tad bit on the short side. Having said that, he's the most polished and talented QB that the Phins have had since Dan Marino and he's the best glimmer of hope we've had since then.

I also stand by my statement that Tua and Jameis are by no means the same player. Winston's work ethic and leadership traits were a major question mark at FSU, despite being an extremely talented player. Jameis didn't come in with the question marks that Tua's coming in with. But at least mentality hasn't been a shortcoming for Tua, which I'm going to ride with.

that LSU defense had a ridiculous number of guys drafted. Its insane. Love that the Browns got Delpit. Browns draft was great if you ask me.

Miami did well too - but only time will tell if Tua can stay healthy.

 

[Heatles84]

that LSU defense had a ridiculous number of guys drafted. Its insane. Love that the Browns got Delpit. Browns draft was great if you ask me.

Miami did well too - but only time will tell if Tua can stay healthy.

Yeah, that LSU will go down as one of the best teams of all-time. And yeah, love to give you shit about the Browns, but there draft was pretty solid this year. Baker has no excuse for this upcoming season (if it happens).

And agreed on Tua - even the most optimistic homer can't argue that health isn't a concern with him. I'm glad the Phins loaded up on the draft and hope they give Tua the year off so they can evaluate who's going to stick and who's not.

 

[Heatles84]

Take it for what it is worth.

Tua going to bust. Not because of injuries. You heard it here first. Get back to me in about 4-5 years.

He may or he may not. There's been plenty of talented QBs to come through in the NFL and for whatever reason, just don't pan out whether it's injuries or other factors. I'm not sure why you're on a crusade to point out that he's definitely going to bust. Hell, Joe Burrow could be a bust too, and if he were to have fallen to the Phins, I would've been more than happy with that.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Forget off the field.

On the field I believe they are comparable. Tua has trouble with decision making when his opponent isn’t completely outmatched.

I think you will see that some from guys that OSU and Bama churn out (and let's face it neither has been good at producing pro QBs) for the reason you stated. They generally have the better team on the field by a large margin. Or at the very least much better athletes at the skill positions.

You saw Watson lead Clemson to something more but when he started they didn't have quite the talent they do now

So even though I'd love Haskins to do well I don't think he will be a good pro either (starter)

 

[Heatles84]

I think you will see that some from guys that OSU and Bama churn out (and let's face it neither has been good at producing pro QBs) for the reason you stated. They generally have the better team on the field by a large margin. Or at the very least much better athletes at the skill positions.

You saw Watson lead Clemson to something more but when he started they didn't have quite the talent they do now

So even though I'd love Haskins to do well I don't think he will be a good pro either (starter)

Watson has been a good QB in the NFL, and he's still leading the Texans to the playoffs with Bill O'Brien as a coach/GM.

Ohio State hasn't really produced QBs for quite sometime at the pro level, particularly under Meyer's watch. If you look at Meyer, outside of Alex Smith, he has never really developed QBs for the next level.

Bama's a different story with QBs because up until Tua, they never had a high rated QB come in at the talent level that he's at.

The problem with QBs is that they're nearly impossible to evaluate as a sure thing at the next level, like offensive linemen. You have to watch out for the obvious warning signs for a QB such as maturity/lack of leadership issues, work ethic, and poor mechanics to start.

 

[Heatles84]

To continue off my previous post, you look at Tim Tebow when we talk about the obvious factors to look for. He certainly was a great leader for the gators, and no one ever questioned his work ethic. His undoing was beyond terrible mechanics that Meyer never addressed for Tebow (as they were winning and that was his priority as a HC). That ultimately became Tebow's undoing for his football career; that, and the fact that he was a mediocre QB that had a star profile that would make him a distraction to any team that had him.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I do think Day will be a better coach for qb development than Meyer. Meyer didn't even develop JT past what he was as a freshman. I've never seen a qb come in with that kind of frosh year and actually get worse seemingly. Maybe because they lost Herman.


But yea I guess looking back Bama hasn't had many top tier recruits that have panned out

 

[trojanfan12]

that LSU defense had a ridiculous number of guys drafted. Its insane. Love that the Browns got Delpit. Browns draft was great if you ask me.

Miami did well too - but only time will tell if Tua can stay healthy.

Not sure about their defense, but the Browns are loaded on offense. They may be the most talented offensive team in the league. They basically have 2 of everything.

That's great for them, but it also brings a lot of pressure because they have no excuse now.

 

[trojanfan12]

To continue off my previous post, you look at Tim Tebow when we talk about the obvious factors to look for. He certainly was a great leader for the gators, and no one ever questioned his work ethic. His undoing was beyond terrible mechanics that Meyer never addressed for Tebow (as they were winning and that was his priority as a HC). That ultimately became Tebow's undoing for his football career; that, and the fact that he was a mediocre QB that had a star profile that would make him a distraction to any team that had him.

Yeah, Tebow could have had a nice long career in the NFL as a quality backup qb. But when you are the backup qb and there are more reporters around your locker after a game than there is around the starting qb's locker...

You're officially a distraction and you ain't gonna be around long.

 

[tlance]

He may or he may not. There's been plenty of talented QBs to come through in the NFL and for whatever reason, just don't pan out whether it's injuries or other factors. I'm not sure why you're on a crusade to point out that he's definitely going to bust. Hell, Joe Burrow could be a bust too, and if he were to have fallen to the Phins, I would've been more than happy with that.

Burrow is highly unlikely to bust. He has better processing skills and better decision making skills as a result.

Tua went from being consensus #1 overall to being a question mark and it isn’t all because of injuries. He showed glaring weaknesses on film.

And am not on any crusade. Just saying what I believe will happen. And I am confident time will price me right.

 

[tlance]

I think you will see that some from guys that OSU and Bama churn out (and let's face it neither has been good at producing pro QBs) for the reason you stated. They generally have the better team on the field by a large margin. Or at the very least much better athletes at the skill positions.

You saw Watson lead Clemson to something more but when he started they didn't have quite the talent they do now

So even though I'd love Haskins to do well I don't think he will be a good pro either (starter)

Totally agree.

And I think Haskins is a massive bust too.

 

[tlance]

Watson has been a good QB in the NFL, and he's still leading the Texans to the playoffs with Bill O'Brien as a coach/GM.

Ohio State hasn't really produced QBs for quite sometime at the pro level, particularly under Meyer's watch. If you look at Meyer, outside of Alex Smith, he has never really developed QBs for the next level.

Bama's a different story with QBs because up until Tua, they never had a high rated QB come in at the talent level that he's at.

The problem with QBs is that they're nearly impossible to evaluate as a sure thing at the next level, like offensive linemen. You have to watch out for the obvious warning signs for a QB such as maturity/lack of leadership issues, work ethic, and poor mechanics to start.

I disagree with the evaluation part. They are harder to evaluate for sure. But the data is available.

The biggest issue with scouting the QB position is that scouts have ALWAYS tremendously overrated arm talent. And struggle evaluating the mental side of the game, believing that decision making skills can be taught when the reality is that most skills that lead to a QB’s decision are already deeply ingrained.

QBs either have the capacity to read the field and make quick, accurate decisions or they don’t. Some improvement takes place over time, but guys who lack important cognitive skills tend to plateau.

I don’t think Tua has the cognitive skills. Burrow does. And I am not sure about Lawrence yet.

 

[Heatles84]

Burrow is highly unlikely to bust. He has better processing skills and better decision making skills as a result.

Tua went from being consensus #1 overall to being a question mark and it isn’t all because of injuries. He showed glaring weaknesses on film.

And am not on any crusade. Just saying what I believe will happen. And I am confident time will price me right.

Burrow had high question marks coming out as well. If we're going to make an argument against Tua for having a stacked team, the same could be said for Burrow as well. In fact, Tua had always played at a high level, regardless of who his OC was. Some are putting Joe Brady as the reason Burrow was able to succeed.

And multiple NFL experts have said that if Tua didn't have his injury history, he likely would've been the #1 draft pick this year. That's his one knock against him, albeit a significant one.

I've seen enough Alabama games to know that decision making wasn't a huge issue with Tua. For the 3 years he's been at Bama, he has 11 interceptions to his name, I would hardly say that's a clear indicator that he has decision making issues.

Is he a guy that's going to step in and put up Mahomes numbers in the first year or even at all? Probably not. But, he's definitely not a for-sure bust heading into the NFL.

 

[Heatles84]

I disagree with the evaluation part. They are harder to evaluate for sure. But the data is available.

The biggest issue with scouting the QB position is that scouts have ALWAYS tremendously overrated arm talent. And struggle evaluating the mental side of the game, believing that decision making skills can be taught when the reality is that most skills that lead to a QB’s decision are already deeply ingrained.

QBs either have the capacity to read the field and make quick, accurate decisions or they don’t. Some improvement takes place over time, but guys who lack important cognitive skills tend to plateau.

I don’t think Tua has the cognitive skills. Burrow does. And I am not sure about Lawrence yet.

Not sure how you could disagree with that. I do agree that arm strength has a significant overvalue from a scouting perspective. But if the data was available to the point you can pinpoint it down to an exact science, then you wouldn't have the misses that you see at QB. Everyone and their cousin questioned Andy Reid a few years ago when he traded for Pat Mahomes. People didn't really think that Russel Wilson would be a start QB in the league. Some even thought Lamar Jackson should switch to WR and that his skillset wouldn't translate to the league - yet he just won MVP.

 

[trojanfan12]

I disagree with the evaluation part. They are harder to evaluate for sure. But the data is available.

The biggest issue with scouting the QB position is that scouts have ALWAYS tremendously overrated arm talent. And struggle evaluating the mental side of the game, believing that decision making skills can be taught when the reality is that most skills that lead to a QB’s decision are already deeply ingrained.

QBs either have the capacity to read the field and make quick, accurate decisions or they don’t. Some improvement takes place over time, but guys who lack important cognitive skills tend to plateau.

I don’t think Tua has the cognitive skills. Burrow does. And I am not sure about Lawrence yet.

Yeah, end of the day, I don't care what a guys arm talent is (as long as he can throw lol). Give me the smarter player with less arm talent every time.

Example, I don't know if Jeff George had the best arm talent in league history, but I'd put him in the convo.

His career didn't come close to what it should have been based on his arm, because he was a poor decision maker.