2019-20 Quest for the cup(The Carter Hart era begins)

[awaz]

Here's my 'intangible' factor. Exactly who was the D-man our youngsters should have looked at as a role model ? AMAC? Gudas? (I like Gudas but he's not a #1), maybe some years ago Streit ? Maybe we didn't need both Niskanen and Braun.... but seriously, the young guys need some experienced teammates to bring them along. We needed someone to show that on-ice experience and leadership. Watching tapes can only go so far.

Make Morin and Hagg compete.... Vigneault is going to field the best players he has, and if Braun is a waste, we'll know it soon enough.

Exactly. The 2018-19 Flyers defense proved it was not good enough to make the playoffs. Maybe you didn't have to do Niskanen AND Braun, but you had to do something. I'm not going to get bent out of shape before a single game is played when they used Gudas, a 2nd, a 3rd, and some short term cap space to try to address it.

The absolute worst case scenario, Hagg and Morin end up playing most of the games because Niskanen and Braun suck. You're out some money. And you're out some draft picks that had a 44% (2nd rounder) and 30% (3rd rounder) chance of making the NHL.

Given the surplus of prospects the Flyers have already, that risk is worth the gamble.

 

[lasgop8]

By that metric Giroux and Voracek should be twice as good as Couturier. And Laughton should be twice as good as Lindblom. Sanheim should be almost 4x the player Myers is. Your boy Brayden Schenn should have had 7.5x the production Brayden Point had this year. Take that line a step further and unless Panarin gets 1,560 points this season he's not worth his contract. I'll call that one now, what a bum.

My point wasn't that he should be twice as good my point is if hes making that much more money than both of our young defeseseman he should be clear cut a way better player than either one of them and at 32 he is just not.

 

[awaz]

But why would we have to pay a guy 3.8 million per year for 2 years to find out we have 2 young defenseman who make a whole lot less that are just as good. As far as a veteran defenseman we had already picked up Nisky and Ghost is a veteran Prov going into his fourth year makes him a vet so we arent as young as we would like to think

Last years dmen had 62 games of playoff experience among them.

Ghost - 12
Sanheim - 4
Provorov - 6
Hagg - 2
Gudas - 15
MacDonald - 23

Braun alone has 84. Niskanen alone has 125. I want to win some damn playoff games. These guys have playoff experience that nobody on defense comes even close to. I'm willing to pay a little bit for that and hope Braun/Niskanen bring some talent to go with that experience/leadership.

 

[lasgop8]

Exactly. The 2018-19 Flyers defense proved it was not good enough to make the playoffs. Maybe you didn't have to do Niskanen AND Braun, but you had to do something. I'm not going to get bent out of shape before a single game is played when they used Gudas, a 2nd, a 3rd, and some short term cap space to try to address it.

The absolute worst case scenario, Hagg and Morin end up playing most of the games because Niskanen and Braun suck. You're out some money. And you're out some draft picks that had a 44% (2nd rounder) and 30% (3rd rounder) chance of making the NHL.

Given the surplus of prospects the Flyers have already, that risk is worth the gamble.

Worst case scenario is Nisky good and Braun is just barley good enough and we still aren't better than any of the top teams and we lost a year of development from both Morin and Hagg and are out the 41st pick this year and third rounder next year.

 

[lasgop8]

Gre

Last years dmen had 62 games of playoff experience among them.

Ghost - 12
Sanheim - 4
Provorov - 6
Hagg - 2
Gudas - 15
MacDonald - 23

Braun alone has 84. Niskanen alone has 125. I want to win some damn playoff games. These guys have playoff experience that nobody on defense comes even close to. I'm willing to pay a little bit for that and hope Braun/Niskanen bring some talent to go with that experience/leadership.

My point exactly. A perfect example of an older defenseman that has playoff experience is MacDonald and nobody on this board was loving his game.

You could stop adding Nisky into any of your replies i like that pick up. We already had Nisky and he already brought experience/leadership without trading for Braun.

 

[purdue81]

But why would we have to pay a guy 3.8 million per year for 2 years to find out we have 2 young defenseman who make a whole lot less that are just as good. As far as a veteran defenseman we had already picked up Nisky and Ghost is a veteran Prov going into his fourth year makes him a vet so we arent as young as we would like to think

I am on board with playing the youth... have been for last 3 years.... I don't think Provy plays like an experienced player. He still has too many breakdowns. To his credit...... he's had to cover for other players' mistakes, often making him look bad. There's just something missing in both his, and Ghost's game --- and I believe some experienced guys around them will make them better.... A LOT better, and quickly.

 

[awaz]

Worst case scenario is Nisky good and Braun is just barley good enough and we still aren't better than any of the top teams and we lost a year of development from both Morin and Hagg and are out the 41st pick this year and third rounder next year.

And as I've said multiple times, I think Hagg is what he is. There's nothing about him that makes me think, "wow that guy has another level he could get to". He has never had any offensive pop, in the NHL or in Sweden. That doesn't just appear out of no where. He doesn't make consistent breakout passes. What are you expecting him to develop in to this year? What exactly are we wasting? We can agree to disagree on this point.

Morin is an even more extreme case of the above. He's 6 years after his draft and still hasn't made an impact. I hope he turns in to something, but he is/was never going to be an every night guy in the NHL this season. He couldn't crack it when healthy, then took two years off. What about those 2 years helped to develop him beyond where he was? He couldn't beat out Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Hagg, AMac, Manning, and Gudas. I think we all agree that at the very least, Niskanen is an upgrade to AMac and Braun is an upgrade on Manning. What gives you the belief that he can beat out Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Myers, Niskanen, Braun, or Hagg? The competition is stiffer. He's taken 2 years off of hockey. And he's coming back from a torn ACL. I guess what I'm saying here is, Braun or no Braun, Morin probably isn't playing many NHL games this season. Unless he's a total physical anomaly that somehow got better at hockey while rehabbing a torn ACL.

 

[awaz]

More on Morin as well. He's a LH shot that by all accounts, can only play on the left side. So Niskanen and Braun don't really even factor in for him. He's competing for a LD spot, and he's competing with Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, and Hagg. Morin isn't seeing the ice without multiple injuries, given that depth chart.

Same, but to a lesser extent on Hagg. He's shown he can play the right side, but it's not his natural side. Part of the acquisition of Braun was so they could run with 3 lefties and 3 righties.

 

[lasgop8]

And as I've said multiple times, I think Hagg is what he is. There's nothing about him that makes me think, "wow that guy has another level he could get to". He has never had any offensive pop, in the NHL or in Sweden. That doesn't just appear out of no where. He doesn't make consistent breakout passes. What are you expecting him to develop in to this year? What exactly are we wasting? We can agree to disagree on this point.

Morin is an even more extreme case of the above. He's 6 years after his draft and still hasn't made an impact. I hope he turns in to something, but he is/was never going to be an every night guy in the NHL this season. He couldn't crack it when healthy, then took two years off. What about those 2 years helped to develop him beyond where he was? He couldn't beat out Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Hagg, AMac, Manning, and Gudas. I think we all agree that at the very least, Niskanen is an upgrade to AMac and Braun is an upgrade on Manning. What gives you the belief that he can beat out Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Myers, Niskanen, Braun, or Hagg? The competition is stiffer. He's taken 2 years off of hockey. And he's coming back from a torn ACL. I guess what I'm saying here is, Braun or no Braun, Morin probably isn't playing many NHL games this season. Unless he's a total physical anomaly that somehow got better at hockey while rehabbing a torn ACL.

And as i have said multiple times i think Hagg and Morin have another level but we arent going to find out for two more years because a 32 year old Braun who has zero offensive pop doesnt make consistent breakout passes either. I love when we agree to disagree 90% of the time it goes in my favor.

 

[lasgop8]

Philadelphia Flyers: Sean Couturier Snubbed From Top 20 Center List

 

[lasgop8]

Until December...

 

[purdue81]

Philadelphia Flyers: Sean Couturier Snubbed From Top 20 Center List

Good... I'm glad he was left off. Two things come from it. He flies under the radar until it's too late, and/or he takes it as a snub and is lights-out motivated to prove the dipshit analysts wrong.

My favorite sports chant is "SCOREBOARD..... SCOREBOARD"..... nothing else ever matters.

 

[purdue81]

And as i have said multiple times i think Hagg and Morin have another level but we arent going to find out for two more years because a 32 year old Braun who has zero offensive pop doesnt make consistent breakout passes either. I love when we agree to disagree 90% of the time it goes in my favor.

Pretty easy side to take..... if they don't progress.. blame Braun. Nothing like sloughing off personal responsibility to earn ice time.

 

[awaz]

And as i have said multiple times i think Hagg and Morin have another level but we arent going to find out for two more years because a 32 year old Braun who has zero offensive pop doesnt make consistent breakout passes either. I love when we agree to disagree 90% of the time it goes in my favor.

Lol. In your fantasy world maybe!

We'll see how Morin and Hagg's careers turn out. If they play consistent top 4 minutes on a contending team at any point, I'll eat crow.

 

[lasgop8]

Lol. In your fantasy world maybe!

We'll see how Morin and Hagg's careers turn out. If they play consistent top 4 minutes on a contending team at any point, I'll eat crow.

They will not be top 4 on any team they play on but will be solid 5/6 dmen in the future. Braun on the other hand has had his career pass him by and he is at this point no better than Hagg. Oh and lets not forget about the picks traded for Braun who also may turn out to be solid players.

 

[lasgop8]

Good... I'm glad he was left off. Two things come from it. He flies under the radar until it's too late, and/or he takes it as a snub and is lights-out motivated to prove the dipshit analysts wrong.

My favorite sports chant is "SCOREBOARD..... SCOREBOARD"..... nothing else ever matters.

We just need him to be what he has turned into the last two seasons and we should be OK at the top line center spot.

 

[awaz]

They will not be top 4 on any team they play on but will be solid 5/6 dmen in the future. Braun on the other hand has had his career pass him by and he is at this point no better than Hagg. Oh and lets not forget about the picks traded for Braun who also may turn out to be solid players.

First off, if that's the ceiling you see for them, then we are on the same page. Hagg is already a decent 5/6, there's barely any more 'development' to go from decent 5/6 to solid 5/6. And beyond that, who cares if they develop from a decent 5/6 to a solid 5/6?

If the young guy can't project to be a top 4 guy, I don't care that much about his development being stunted in an attempt to be more competitive in the short term. Acquiring Braun is that attempt. Maybe Fletcher is wrong and Braun doesn't improve the team, but in that case, Hagg just comes back in. And you wasted a 2nd and 3rd round pick. But we literally cannot know that today. We'll have to see how the season goes. With where the Flyers are, I'm very on board for risking a 2nd, 3rd, and 'decent-to-solid development' to try to get better today.

And I feel like we must've done a number on you during the Hextall years. Las of seasons passed would never be lamenting an attempt to make today's team better because it hindered prospect development. You're a new man!

 

[EVille3]

Just selected my seats for the upcoming season. Hockey season can't get here soon enough!

 

[lasgop8]

Just selected my seats for the upcoming season. Hockey season can't get here soon enough!

Nice! 40 days until the first preseason game.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Don't forget about Vasilevskiy... in two years he'll have a GAA around .75

And still will be over rated lol.