2018 Amateur Draft

[SFGRTB]

According to MLB dot com, the Giants are deciding between Joey Bart and Brady Singer, which is backed up by Fangraphs dot com who are saying the Giants are honing on the top college talents not named Nick Madrigal.

Please pick Bart over Singer.

 

[calsnowskier]

While I would be OK with Bart, he is kinda a no-frills, safe pick. He doesn’t seem to have a super high ceiling.

Personally, assuming they are looking at a college kid, I think I would prefer Swaggerty.

If you include HS talent, I like Kelenic or Liberatore.

 

[calsnowskier]

And I agree...

Avoid Singer.

 

[SFGRTB]

While I would be OK with Bart, he is kinda a no-frills, safe pick. He doesn’t seem to have a super high ceiling.

Personally, assuming they are looking at a college kid, I think I would prefer Swaggerty.

If you include HS talent, I like Kelenic or Liberatore.

Yeah Bart is kinda my second least favorite option out of my top 8, with Singer my least favorite.

At the same time, lets say Bart is on a 3-year development schedule. Posey will be 34 then, on the final guaranteed year of his contract. Belt will also be in the final year of his contract. By then, the Giants will probably have a stop-gap catcher, at least playing 35-50% of the games at catcher, who would ideally be Aramis Garcia. But Garcia isn't a franchise catcher. He can be an excellent backup, but the Giants would probably be in a rough spot with him full time (or looking for another solution).

Bart has the tools to be a franchise catcher: excellent defensive chops, calls his own game in college (a huge positive), and more than capable with the bat. I'm not sure there's anything more valuable in baseball than a two-way catcher. It wouldn't be easy being the heir to the greatest catcher in franchise history, but someone has to do it, and Bart at least has the chops to potentially be that guy.

He'd be a boring pick (not a 40-homer guy or whatever you expect out of a high pick), but perhaps a necessary one.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah Bart is kinda my second least favorite option out of my top 8, with Singer my least favorite.

At the same time, lets say Bart is on a 3-year development schedule. Posey will be 34 then, on the final guaranteed year of his contract. Belt will also be in the final year of his contract. By then, the Giants will probably have a stop-gap catcher, at least playing 35-50% of the games at catcher, who would ideally be Aramis Garcia. But Garcia isn't a franchise catcher. He can be an excellent backup, but the Giants would probably be in a rough spot with him full time (or looking for another solution).

Bart has the tools to be a franchise catcher: excellent defensive chops, calls his own game in college (a huge positive), and more than capable with the bat. I'm not sure there's anything more valuable in baseball than a two-way catcher. It wouldn't be easy being the heir to the greatest catcher in franchise history, but someone has to do it, and Bart at least has the chops to potentially be that guy.

He'd be a boring pick (not a 40-homer guy or whatever you expect out of a high pick), but perhaps a necessary one.

Like I said, I am OK with Bart being the guy. He just doesn’t strike me a guy who will have the impact of a Williams, Clark or Posey.

But maybe (hopefully) I am wrong. And I trust the PsTB to make the right decision.

 

[calsnowskier]

Just for some quick review. The Giants pick at #2 and #45 this year.

2006 - Tim Lincecum RHP (10)
2006 - Emmanuel Burris SS (33)
2007 - Madison Bumgarner LHP (10)
2007 - Tim Alderson RHP (22)
2007 - Wendell Fairley OF (29)
2007 - Nick Noonan 2B (32)
2007 - Jackson Williams C (43)
2007 - Charlie Culberson 2B (51)
2008 - Buster Posey C (5)
2008 - Conor Gillaspie 3B (37)
2009 - Zack Wheeler RHP (6)
2010 - Gary Brown OF (24)
2011 - Joe Panik SS (29)
2011 - Kyle Crick RHP (49)
2012 - Chris Stratton RHP (20)
2013 - Christian Arroyo SS (25)
2014 - Tyler Beede RHP (14)
2015 - Phil Bickford RHP (18)
2015 - Chris Shaw 1B (31)
2016 - NA
2017 - Heliot Ramos OF (19)

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

FanGraphs latest Mock Draft out

2018 MLB Mock Draft v 2.0 | FanGraphs Baseball

SF Giants - 1.02 - Joey Bart, C, Georgia Tech

Bart has long been connected to the Giants. They’ve scouted him arguably as much as any team has scouted any player this spring, and in recent weeks, he’s emerged as the heavy favorite at this pick, with Singer and South Alabama CF Travis Swaggerty representing backup options. GM Bobby Evans and other top club execs saw Mize (at Vanderbilt) and Bart (at Georgia Tech) two weekends ago while the team big-league team was in Atlanta playing the Braves. Skyscraping Kentucky RHP Sean Hjelle is a target in the second round.

 

[SFGRTB]

FanGraphs latest Mock Draft out

2018 MLB Mock Draft v 2.0 | FanGraphs Baseball

SF Giants - 1.02 - Joey Bart, C, Georgia Tech

Bart has long been connected to the Giants. They’ve scouted him arguably as much as any team has scouted any player this spring, and in recent weeks, he’s emerged as the heavy favorite at this pick, with Singer and South Alabama CF Travis Swaggerty representing backup options. GM Bobby Evans and other top club execs saw Mize (at Vanderbilt) and Bart (at Georgia Tech) two weekends ago while the team big-league team was in Atlanta playing the Braves. Skyscraping Kentucky RHP Sean Hjelle is a target in the second round.

In the past, these guys have correctly predicted Jacob Gonzalez, Christian Arroyo, either Phil Bickford or Tyler Beede (I can't remember) and they also speculated the Giants were in on Heliot Ramos. There's been others too.

These guys are reliable.

 

[calsnowskier]

So it is really starting to look like we will have Mize or Bart (likely Bart).

I am cool with that. A college defense-first catcher who actually has a legit bat (power-first).

 

[Sandisfan]

I sparsely post on a Hockey board, not here, and someone there went through the past drafts and concluded drafting defensive defensemen almost never works out, even late in the draft with low expectations. Now my question is have the Giants had any success drafting catchers early, of course Posey was a homerun, but with my incomplete memory of Giants drafts have the Giants done well with catchers? Especially early?

P.S. The defensive defensemen numbers were something on the order of hundreds of D 1st Dmen and only 5 to 10 just OK players having any impact with 2 or 3 being slightly better than average.

 

[calsnowskier]

I sparsely post on a Hockey board, not here, and someone there went through the past drafts and concluded drafting defensive defensemen almost never works out, even late in the draft with low expectations. Now my question is have the Giants had any success drafting catchers early, of course Posey was a homerun, but with my incomplete memory of Giants drafts have the Giants done well with catchers? Especially early?

P.S. The defensive defensemen numbers were something on the order of hundreds of D 1st Dmen and only 5 to 10 just OK players having any impact with 2 or 3 being slightly better than average.

Since Posey was drafted, the Giants have picked 3 catchers in the first few rounds...

Tommy Joseph
Andrew Susac
Aramis Garcia

Joseph ended up getting traded (for Pence) and them got sidelined by concussions which ended his catching career. He made it to the bigs as a power hitting 1B, but just didnt have enough bat to make it as a bat-first first baseman.

Susac was the primary back up to Posey a couple years back. He was ultimately traded to Milwaukee in the Will Smith trade. He is currently in the Orioles system. I haven’t heard much about him. I get the sense his career has pretty much flatlined since leaving the org.

Garcia is our current top catching prospect, but isn’t an elite prospect at all.

I think in baseball, when you are drafting a position player, you look more at the person than the position. Typically players (even college players) still need about 3 years or so of development before they can seriously be ready for the bigs and often times position changes occur (Mike Morse, for example, was drafted as a SS and Pablo Sandoval was a catcher for much of his minor league career).

 

[LHG]

I sparsely post on a Hockey board, not here, and someone there went through the past drafts and concluded drafting defensive defensemen almost never works out, even late in the draft with low expectations. Now my question is have the Giants had any success drafting catchers early, of course Posey was a homerun, but with my incomplete memory of Giants drafts have the Giants done well with catchers? Especially early?

P.S. The defensive defensemen numbers were something on the order of hundreds of D 1st Dmen and only 5 to 10 just OK players having any impact with 2 or 3 being slightly better than average.

Since Posey was drafted, the Giants have picked 3 catchers in the first few rounds...

Tommy Joseph
Andrew Susac
Aramis Garcia

Joseph ended up getting traded (for Pence) and them got sidelined by concussions which ended his catching career. He made it to the bigs as a power hitting 1B, but just didnt have enough bat to make it as a bat-first first baseman.

Susac was the primary back up to Posey a couple years back. He was ultimately traded to Milwaukee in the Will Smith trade. He is currently in the Orioles system. I haven’t heard much about him. I get the sense his career has pretty much flatlined since leaving the org.

Garcia is our current top catching prospect, but isn’t an elite prospect at all.

I think in baseball, when you are drafting a position player, you look more at the person than the position. Typically players (even college players) still need about 3 years or so of development before they can seriously be ready for the bigs and often times position changes occur (Mike Morse, for example, was drafted as a SS and Pablo Sandoval was a catcher for much of his minor league career).

Sandisfan, I don't know if you were asking about drafting defensive minded catchers, specifically, so I'll add something to what cal shared.

Narrowing the picks to the 1st 10 rounds and starting with the 2007 draft (because that one was defining for the organization, in both good and bad), here's a list of catchers taken by the org:
Jackson Williams - 1st, 2007, played in the bigs for SF and Colorado. Very much the defensive first catcher, which has been his calling card and has given him the opportunity to stick around so long.
Michael Ambort - 6th, 2007, played 4 seasons, getting as high as AA
Buster Posey - 1st, 2008, he's stuck around a bit
Tommy Joseph - 2nd, 2009, see cal's post
Joe Staley - 8th, 2010, played 3 seasons for the org and another 4 in indy ball; looking at his numbers, I would guess his problem was defense
Dan Burkhart - 10th, 2010, played 3 seasons for the org; probably a defensive deficient as well
Andrew Susac - 2nd, 2011, see cal's post
Trevor Brown - 10th, 2012, replaced Susac as Posey's backup for a year but has hit horribly the past two years at AAA
Aramis Garcia - 2nd, 2014, see cal's post
Rob Calabrese - 10th, 2017, currently the backup catcher at Augusta

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Since Posey was drafted, the Giants have picked 3 catchers in the first few rounds...

Tommy Joseph
Andrew Susac
Aramis Garcia

Joseph ended up getting traded (for Pence) and them got sidelined by concussions which ended his catching career. He made it to the bigs as a power hitting 1B, but just didnt have enough bat to make it as a bat-first first baseman.

Susac was the primary back up to Posey a couple years back. He was ultimately traded to Milwaukee in the Will Smith trade. He is currently in the Orioles system. I haven’t heard much about him. I get the sense his career has pretty much flatlined since leaving the org.

Garcia is our current top catching prospect, but isn’t an elite prospect at all.

I think in baseball, when you are drafting a position player, you look more at the person than the position. Typically players (even college players) still need about 3 years or so of development before they can seriously be ready for the bigs and often times position changes occur (Mike Morse, for example, was drafted as a SS and Pablo Sandoval was a catcher for much of his minor league career).

Andrew Susac update:

He is crusssssshing it in Triple-A this year, but injuries (ankle) limited him to 15 games.

320/.452/.580, .460 wOBA, 196 wRC+, 14 RBIs, 19.4 BB% in 62 plate appearances.

Butttttt

33.9 K%, .500 BABIP

 

[SFGRTB]

Since Posey was drafted, the Giants have picked 3 catchers in the first few rounds...

Tommy Joseph
Andrew Susac
Aramis Garcia

Joseph ended up getting traded (for Pence) and them got sidelined by concussions which ended his catching career. He made it to the bigs as a power hitting 1B, but just didnt have enough bat to make it as a bat-first first baseman.

Susac was the primary back up to Posey a couple years back. He was ultimately traded to Milwaukee in the Will Smith trade. He is currently in the Orioles system. I haven’t heard much about him. I get the sense his career has pretty much flatlined since leaving the org.

Garcia is our current top catching prospect, but isn’t an elite prospect at all.

I think in baseball, when you are drafting a position player, you look more at the person than the position. Typically players (even college players) still need about 3 years or so of development before they can seriously be ready for the bigs and often times position changes occur (Mike Morse, for example, was drafted as a SS and Pablo Sandoval was a catcher for much of his minor league career).

Those were all drafted as bat first guys too.

 

[SFGRTB]

I sparsely post on a Hockey board, not here, and someone there went through the past drafts and concluded drafting defensive defensemen almost never works out, even late in the draft with low expectations. Now my question is have the Giants had any success drafting catchers early, of course Posey was a homerun, but with my incomplete memory of Giants drafts have the Giants done well with catchers? Especially early?

P.S. The defensive defensemen numbers were something on the order of hundreds of D 1st Dmen and only 5 to 10 just OK players having any impact with 2 or 3 being slightly better than average.

I don't know much about hockey, but I will say in baseball I don't know if there's anything more valuable than a defensive catcher who can hit, unless Willie Mays is available.

Bart has the tools to be a premium defensive catcher, and can hit 20+ bombs.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't know much about hockey, but I will say in baseball I don't know if there's anything more valuable than a defensive catcher who can hit, unless Willie Mays is available.

Bart has the tools to be a premium defensive catcher, and can hit 20+ bombs.

That is Posey +. But I don’t get the sense that Bart is as big a prospect right now as Posey was at this point in ‘08. Of course, Posey won the Silver Spikes (the baseball version of the Heisman), so maybe that’s why he had extra juice going into the draft.

Do you think Bart has Posey-potential?

 

[SFGRTB]

That is Posey +. But I don’t get the sense that Bart is as big a prospect right now as Posey was at this point in ‘08. Of course, Posey won the Silver Spikes (the baseball version of the Heisman), so maybe that’s why he had extra juice going into the draft.

Do you think Bart has Posey-potential?

No I don't see Bart getting there because his bat isn't as good. About the only thing Bart has, offensively, on Posey is power. Posey has average and strikezone awareness that is among the best we've seen in a catcher.

Posey was definitely a bigger prospect in the draft than Bart is because there was more confidence in his bat. At this point, Bart still has skeptics because of his strikeouts/ability to consistently make contact. Posey was about as sure of a thing as a catcher you could get because he could hit anything, with a great eye.

I mean I guess Bart COULD be better than Posey if he hits in the .280's with 20-30 homers consistently, but I wouldn't bet on it. I would have bet on Posey coming out of the draft to hit around .300 and be great defensively (and he's still exceeded expectations).

I feel like Salvador Perez the past 4 years is a good comp. Which isn't very exciting, but locking that up for 10 years is pretty valuable.

 

[LHG]

No I don't see Bart getting there because his bat isn't as good. About the only thing Bart has, offensively, on Posey is power. Posey has average and strikezone awareness that is among the best we've seen in a catcher.

Posey was definitely a bigger prospect in the draft than Bart is because there was more confidence in his bat. At this point, Bart still has skeptics because of his strikeouts/ability to consistently make contact. Posey was about as sure of a thing as a catcher you could get because he could hit anything, with a great eye.

I mean I guess Bart COULD be better than Posey if he hits in the .280's with 20-30 homers consistently, but I wouldn't bet on it. I would have bet on Posey coming out of the draft to hit around .300 and be great defensively (and he's still exceeded expectations).

I feel like Salvador Perez the past 4 years is a good comp. Which isn't very exciting, but locking that up for 10 years is pretty valuable.

Reading something like this about the guy most likely to be picked by the Giants makes me ask . . . Is the draft this weak (or the year Posey was picked that deep a draft class) or is there good potential for the Giants to pick poorly with such a high pick?

 

[SFGRTB]

Reading something like this about the guy most likely to be picked by the Giants makes me ask . . . Is the draft this weak (or the year Posey was picked that deep a draft class) or is there good potential for the Giants to pick poorly with such a high pick?

I mean Salvador Perez would be a pretty good return on investment for a No. 2 pick. Posey is a potential HOF guy (who would have gone No. 1 if not for $$$$).

This class is deep with talent, but shallow with high-end guys. Are there guys I like more than Bart? Yes. Is it by a lot? Not really, especially with the Giants having no catching depth in the minors.

 

[LHG]

I mean Salvador Perez would be a pretty good return on investment for a No. 2 pick. Posey is a potential HOF guy (who would have gone No. 1 if not for $$$$).

This class is deep with talent, but shallow with high-end guys. Are there guys I like more than Bart? Yes. Is it by a lot? Not really, especially with the Giants having no catching depth in the minors.

My personal opinion is that if a team has one of the top 5 picks (maybe even top 10) in the draft, go with the best player available, not the one that meets the most glaring need. If the team is rich in pitching prospects but the best player available when it comes time to pick is a pitcher, then go for it. Now I understand that "best" player is not usually clear cut. I just hope that the Giants don't settle for Bart based on need if they believe someone else is available to take who is, in their minds, clearly the better player.
Now if Bart is the best available when they select their pick then I've got no problem. I'm just thinking about the comparisons on Posey at draft day versus Bart and wonder if the class is not as deep or as top heavy as the year that Posey got drafted or if the Giants are already settling. You and others on this board are much more knowledgeable than me on amateur players so I'll trust what you all are saying.