2018-2019 NBA Regular Season Thread

[tlance]

I also agree it comes down to fit. As I already said Love would hurt GS and Green hurts the cavs if they deal them last year.

However, do we really not agree Love can score and rebound better than Green? Green gets more assists, but that is because his team doesn't need him to score. Love is an excellent passer. Really, all I see Green doing better is play D.

I agree that Love is a better scorer and rebounder. Don't remember ever implying otherwise.

But Love's rebounding is overvalued and mitigated but the fact that he can't defend at all. He is a poor defender in space and one of the worst rim protecting bigs in the entire league.

Draymond may not rebound as much as Love, but he is a very good rebounder if we are trying to associate overall value to skill sets, I would say rebounding and passing might cancel out.

Green can handle the ball and initiate offense. Love can't do that. Green has flaws too, especially his shooting of late. Right now, Green can't shoot at all.

So it really comes down to what your team needs:

An elite defender, and secondary ball handler/playmaker but can't shoot

Or

An elite big shooter who rebounds and passes well but struggles to guard average NBA athletes.

I think it would be a decent split, but more teams would need Green's skill set than Love's. And that is before factoring in injury history.

All that said, in theory, Love's skills should last longer if he can stay on the court. Green could decline in a hurry.

 

[dtgold88]

Jesus.

You are the absolute worst kind of troll.

The one who doesn't realize he's a troll, therefore is not humorous , challenging nor entertaining.

This is getting boring.

Maybe you should just stomp your feet and hold your breath until I agree with you?

more deflection. Never change, as you are pure comedy.

 

[dtgold88]

Lmfao

He was #1 in Minny.

How did that work out?

They didn't SNIFF the playoffs.

Love is a good player.

But, not a franchise player.

#2?

I think it depends on who is #1.

As a #3?

Special.

Now you just come back with misinformation, but at least you tried to refute my comments instead of pure deflection. Minnesota was a 40 win team in the rugged West in Love's last season there. Might have noticed they fell off a cliff after he left.

Agree if he is your #1 you wont be winning a title, but guys who can got for 25 and 14 at their best don't grow on trees. Put Green on a bad team and he'd be useless.

 

[tlance]

do you also have reading comprehension issues, as well? I specifically mentioned fit matter which is why Green is so much better than Love for GS.

You mentioning Lopez just shows me in addition to being irrational you know little about the NBA. There are not many weaker rebounds in the NBA for a guy his size. He has never even gone over 9 per game. And he's certainly not the shooter or scorer Love is.

I look forward to the deflection you will bring in your reply as there is nothing you'll come up with to refute these comments......per usual.

Brook Slopez is not a good defender either, but at least he has value protecting the rim.

3 defensive skills big men need in today's NBA

1) guard in space
2) protect the rim
3) rebound

You really need at least 2 of 3 to be anything but a liability defensively as a big. Lopez and Love each only have 1. And to be honest, I think it pretty much cancels out.

 

[dtgold88]

So, un twist you panties and dry your eyes.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

I just assumed a fella like your self was used to having his thoughts, wishes and fantasies thoroughly crushed by the fairer sex.

Now go read my post again about Lopez and his boards.

I'll wait in case you need a little extra time to regain your composure or take your anxiety meds....lol

No extra time needed at all. Stopped reading and missed your comment about the rebounds. My apologies.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I see the Kevin Love conversation is rearing its head again lol

I do agree there are teams that would need Kevin's scoring moreso than Draymond but most of those teams would be bad.

Kevin Love has been a 1 there is no universe in which Draymond is a 1 but his skillset works better for some teams than Love

They'd actually be nice complimentary pieces on the same team imo.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I also agree it comes down to fit. As I already said Love would hurt GS and Green hurts the cavs if they deal them last year.

However, do we really not agree Love can score and rebound better than Green? Green gets more assists, but that is because his team doesn't need him to score. Love is an excellent passer. Really, all I see Green doing better is play D.

Love is the better scorer.

Love has the better rebounding stats.

Draymond is the better passer.

Draymond is the better defender.

The one thing Kevin does that is head and shoulders better than Green is scoring.

But, the margin of defensive ability between the two is just as wide in Draymond's favor.

Now look at games missed.

Doesn't matter how much Love can score if he's always in bubble wrap.

As a Blake Griffin can, I would know.

They are in the same category.

 

[dtgold88]

I agree that Love is a better scorer and rebounder. Don't remember ever implying otherwise.

But Love's rebounding is overvalued and mitigated but the fact that he can't defend at all. He is a poor defender in space and one of the worst rim protecting bigs in the entire league.

Draymond may not rebound as much as Love, but he is a very good rebounder if we are trying to associate overall value to skill sets, I would say rebounding and passing might cancel out.

Green can handle the ball and initiate offense. Love can't do that. Green has flaws too, especially his shooting of late. Right now, Green can't shoot at all.

So it really comes down to what your team needs:

An elite defender, and secondary ball handler/playmaker but can't shoot

Or

An elite big shooter who rebounds and passes well but struggles to guard average NBA athletes.

I think it would be a decent split, but more teams would need Green's skill set than Love's. And that is before factoring in injury history.

All that said, in theory, Love's skills should last longer if he can stay on the court. Green could decline in a hurry.

Though I think Love plays D better than most give him credit. I'd say he's below average, but not awful I agree with most of your assessments on each player.

I think a big difference is a team will actually try and stop Love when he has the ball. Most would beg Green to take the shot.

To be clear, none of my comments are implying Green is not a very good player. Only that the idea he is clearly better than love is absurd and I'd bet most think that's the case.

Love clearly outplayed him in both the 2017 and 2018 Finals. Ironically, the one the Cavs won, Green was much better (was probably series MVP if they won).

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I see the Kevin Love conversation is rearing its head again lol

I do agree there are teams that would need Kevin's scoring moreso than Draymond but most of those teams would be bad.

Kevin Love has been a 1 there is no universe in which Draymond is a 1 but his skillset works better for some teams than Love

They'd actually be nice complimentary pieces on the same team imo.

I agree.

They would work hella well together.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

No extra time needed at all. Stopped reading and missed your comment about the rebounds. My apologies.

It's cool.

 

[Black Adam]

Clippers maybe even Denver.

I don't like the Milsap / Jokic pairing.

Early on, Jokic's game suffered.

He didn't really take off until Milsap got injured.

But, more so....

The best ability is availability.

Love is injury prone.

dammit, ya beat me to That one, Stephen A....

 

[tlance]

all fair points and I don't pretend to know all the answers, but Griffin is still not a GM, so maybe he's either just not that good at it or doesn't want to be a GM?

I think Lebron was headed to LA no matter what the Cavs did, Lance. Gilbert did everything Lebron asked him to do and set payroll records. what more should he have done? If it was really all about winning, there were far better places to go than LA if he didn't want Cleveland. If Lebron got over the letter to return, what could Gilbert have done in round 2 that could have been worse than that move?

How could he have no faith in Gilbert? hey played for 4 titles, won one and might have been 2 if not for a Kyrie/Love injury which certainly isn't his fault. No team other than his has beaten GS and he lost to no one but GS. Just bad timing.

you really think the 4 years in Miami the FO with Riley did so much more than his last 4 here? Sure, one more title, but the Cavs didn't play Dallas.....and lose to them. GS never played anyone as good as GS (though the SA win is impressive).

LeBron is going to do LeBron. You are right about that.

no. I don't think Miami necessarily did more. In fact it can be argued that they actually did less. But LeBron also left there first chance he got.

Why would he have no faith in Gilbert?

Maybe his first 7 years in the NBA, the letter Gilbert wrote, the fact that Gilbert dragged his feet on some of the contract situations like TT and JR. who knows, it might not even have anything to do with basketball. It might just be mutual dislike.

You are a Cleveland fan and you like your owner. Great for you. I wish I could say the same for my team. But I see quite a few obvious reasons Lebron would be less trusting of Gilbert

 

[dtgold88]

Brook Slopez is not a good defender either, but at least he has value protecting the rim.

3 defensive skills big men need in today's NBA

1) guard in space
2) protect the rim
3) rebound

You really need at least 2 of 3 to be anything but a liability defensively as a big. Lopez and Love each only have 1. And to be honest, I think it pretty much cancels out.

Not a crazy assertion, but I'd say it's debatable. I'm sure being 2-3 inches shorter hurts Love in the rim protection area. Let's not forget Love is a PF, not a center. And despite the size difference, he's a far better rebounder.

Love is also a couple points higher in PER for career and 5+ points higher last season. Even more difference this season but unfair as Love has only played 4 games.

 

[dtgold88]

Love is the better scorer.

Love has the better rebounding stats.

Draymond is the better passer.

Draymond is the better defender.

The one thing Kevin does that is head and shoulders better than Green is scoring.

But, the margin of defensive ability between the two is just as wide in Draymond's favor.

Now look at games missed.

Doesn't matter how much Love can score if he's always in bubble wrap.

As a Blake Griffin can, I would know.

They are in the same category.

In the 4 seasons before this one, Love averaged a hair under 70 games/season. You get the Cavs are tanking this season and it would hurt them to play him, right?

agree with the rebounding and D. Not so sure about the passing. Love is just needed by his team to score. He's an excpetional passer if that's how a team chose to play him. One of the best in the league with the outlet pass.

 

[dtgold88]

LeBron is going to do LeBron. You are right about that.

no. I don't think Miami necessarily did more. In fact it can be argued that they actually did less. But LeBron also left there first chance he got.

Why would he have no faith in Gilbert?

Maybe his first 7 years in the NBA, the letter Gilbert wrote, the fact that Gilbert dragged his feet on some of the contract situations like TT and JR. who knows, it might not even have anything to do with basketball. It might just be mutual dislike.

You are a Cleveland fan and you like your owner. Great for you. I wish I could say the same for my team. But I see quite a few obvious reasons Lebron would be less trusting of Gilbert

What did Gilbert do wrong those first 7 years? You realize he never had a commitment from Lebron in those years and when it comes to attracting FAs, Cleveland not exactly like LA so almost impossible without knowing if Lebron would stick around.

The letter Gilbert wrote is irrelevant as we know despite the letter he still came back, so hard to count that against Gilbert for his second departure when we already know Lebron was willing to look past it.

why would dragging his feet on overpaying guys be a bad thing? You think Gilbert needed to bid against himself? Maybe it was TT and JR who dragged their feet on signing?

I don't doubt for a minute they dislike each other but again that was already true when Lebron came back the first time.

Cannot be 100% sure, of course, but really seems clear Lebron was going to LA no matter what the cavs did and no other team was under consideration. If he really cared most about winning, wouldn't he have gone to Philly?

 

[tlance]

What did Gilbert do wrong those first 7 years? You realize he never had a commitment from Lebron in those years and when it comes to attracting FAs, Cleveland not exactly like LA so almost impossible without knowing if Lebron would stick around.

The letter Gilbert wrote is irrelevant as we know despite the letter he still came back, so hard to count that against Gilbert for his second departure when we already know Lebron was willing to look past it.

why would dragging his feet on overpaying guys be a bad thing? You think Gilbert needed to bid against himself? Maybe it was TT and JR who dragged their feet on signing?

I don't doubt for a minute they dislike each other but again that was already true when Lebron came back the first time.

Cannot be 100% sure, of course, but really seems clear Lebron was going to LA no matter what the cavs did and no other team was under consideration. If he really cared most about winning, wouldn't he have gone to Philly?

You asked for reasons. I gave them. Not sure what we are arguing about here.

 

[Black Adam]

I see the Kevin Love conversation is rearing its head again lol

I do agree there are teams that would need Kevin's scoring moreso than Draymond but most of those teams would be bad.

Kevin Love has been a 1 there is no universe in which Draymond is a 1 but his skillset works better for some teams than Love

They'd actually be nice complimentary pieces on the same team imo.

Stays hurt too often for my tastes. Just my opinion, though...

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

He'll be back...I think he might be 20 by now. Or older.

22.

 

[dtgold88]

The Cavs would be in a very different place had they done the George trade.

Gilbert wanted a commitment from LeBron before he pulled the trigger because George wouldn't give the Cavs one without it.

We all know what happened next.

As for the TT and Smith overpays....

* See KCP

Cost of doing business with Klutch.

That's what happens when you give a single player that much power over a franchise.

I don't feel sorry for the owners. They have been fucking over players for years.

But, I can't remember a single player that has had this much control over a franchise as LeBron.

It's dangerous when he co-owns * coughs * is signed to a Agency with a history of strong arm tactics.

If nothing else, they wouldn't have that albatross contract of Love's on their books.

don't really get the Love mention as the deal was signed after Lebron left. Never mind there are players with far worse deals than Love has for the team for which he plays. Agree with everything else you said.

If the season were anything other than a tank I'm fairly confident Love would already be playing. I suspect they'll play him for 2-3 weeks just so teams can see he is healthy and productive in case someoe overwhelms them with an offer for him in the summer.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Stays hurt too often for my tastes. Just my opinion, though...

His game could definitely last him at least another five years but yes he has been prone to injury

I think he missed more games the two years prior than he would have had the Cavs thought they absolutely needed him in the regular season though