2018-2019 NBA Regular Season Thread

[dtgold88]

of course you cannot dispute some horseshit from some kid teaching 16 year olds almost a decade ago that is 3rd hand hearsay.

Love has shown he has been nothing but a great teammate with the Cavs. The guy sacrificed more than anyone, and over and over his teammates have said what he means to the team.

Minnesota had the record for North American Sports for least playoff appearances in a row- a record that started before Love got there and didnt end to years after he left. It was, if not THE most incompetent franchise in north american pro sports, certainly one of the top 5.

Its the same team that decided to save its "designated player extension" for Rubio instead of Love, and only offered Love 3 years when Love would have signed for 5.

Love's first year in Minne was 08-09. AS is typical with must young players, he really came into his own in his 3rd year- the 2010-2011 season when he went for 20-15-3 a night.

The guys that got the most starts on that team: Wesley Johnson (66) , Michael Beasley (73) , Luke Ridnour (66), Darko Milocic (69)

think of that fucking starting line up...lol

PG- Luke Ridnour
SG- Wesley Johnson
SF- Michael Beasley
PF- Love
C- Darko

I mean holy shit is that bad. That is WAY worse than the freaking Cavs if you ask me. The next year might even be worse --- guys that got starts Pekovic (35), Ridnour 53, Rubio 31 (as a rook that shot a Ball-like 35% from the floor), Wesley Jonhson with another 64 starts, Daroko with 23, Martell Webster with 26.

SOO SOOO SOOO BAD. Hes teammates were GARBAGE.

the year after that? Love had his year that was lost because of injury where he only played 18 games

his last year in Minne? an Ancient Kevin Martin (that he played with for ONE YEAR) started 68 games, Pekovic started 54, the GREAT COREY BREWER started 81 games, Ricky Rubio started 82 games (has ricky rubio ever been a top half of the NBA point guard? maybe maybe not- certainly never near top 10),

so you have
PG- Rubio
SG- Brewer
SF- Martin
PF- Love
C- Pekovic

jusst garbage. Straight trashola. Minnesota was the most incompetent franchise in north american sports, arguably, and in the 4 years Love gave them a shot the best guys they gave him were a young Rubio, Luke Ridnour, 1 year of Kevin Martin, Pekovic, Brewer, Wesley Johnson, Darko.

Despite all of that- Love wanted to be loyal and take a 5 year deal but they instead decided they wanted to save it for Rubio...lol.....just unreal

I'll let @tlance reply to what was directed towards him but these are all facts. If you were the one who said the narrative on him would be different if he were black I think you are 100% spot on. For sure if he were a fake toughguy and yelled at refs and racked up techs.

I find the defensive narrative is what many are left with when their argument has failed. Yes, Love is not a great or even good defender, but the guy hustles and at least knows where he should be. Compare that to a guy like Lebron who is more athletic and could play D but just doesn't. Or Kyrie.

And, no, he is not on Malone's or Barkley's level but each of them considered defense to be a rumor......but hardly anyone ever mentioned it.

 

[dtgold88]

Well ok but Klay has won 3 titles and is likely to win his 4th this year.

why did you not reply to the rebound mention? Does that mean you realize your critique of his rebounding only being because he is tall was unfounded?

Klay could get lost on his way to each game and GS wins a title.

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

I suspect this year the West is one good team and sisters of the poor when it comes to a shot at winning the conference. and there are 5 teams in the east as good as the 4 teams in the West next in line below GS.

The talk around here has been getting in position and building for the time when GSW comes back to the pack a little... and being ready to compete then. Luka has helped my heroes push that timeline a bit. It’s exciting to see this team now where up to last season it was tedium. Getting another piece or two this off-season along with Luka’s continued development...

Biding my time as a Mavs fan. Because the future looks pretty damn fun.

 

[dtgold88]

I agree with all of that.

But I will say this again:

3 things matter most for big defenders in the current NBA, and probably in this order too, although order for 2 and 3 are debateable:

1: defending guards in space, pick and roll, etc
2: rim protection
3: defensive rebounding

As good as Love is at number 3, he is bad at 1 and 2. And that makes him a net negative defensively. eilte offensive players like Harden overpower the defensive negative and are still elite overall in terms of impact. Love is really good, but not elite offensively.

Also, IMO, in 2019, as the game becomes more and more perimeter based, I would argue that defensive contributions from big men are as important if not more so than their offense. This is not true for guards and wings. Love's shooting and other offensive skills have value to be sure. But it is a lot easier to pick on a big man who is an defensive liability than it is to pick on a perimeter guy.

Love is still a net positive overall, just not as positive as you think he is. Mostly because of how the game has changed and how bigs are used defensively.

You think Barkley and even Malone would be even mediocre rim protectors? Neither is defending guards in space either. Still, no, I am not saying Love is those guys which would be the deflection most would offer when I asked that question.

 

[flyerhawk]

If we assume that the #8 seed in the West will have 45 wins, the Lakers will need to go 15-5 for the remainder of the season.

And the remainder of their schedule is absolutely brutal.

Still have the Celtics, Nuggets, Raptors, Bucks, Thunder, Warriors, Portland, and Utah twice.

At this point getting a winning record seems in doubt.

 

[dtgold88]

The talk around here has been getting in position and building for the time when GSW comes back to the pack a little... and being ready to compete then. Luka has helped my heroes push that timeline a bit. It’s exciting to see this team now where up to last season it was tedium. Getting another piece or two this off-season along with Luka’s continued development...

Biding my time as a Mavs fan. Because the future looks pretty damn fun.

I don't disagree nor do I blame you for being excited about the Mavs' future, but this was just deflection from me refuting your comment about the current east.

say what ya will about the guy, but I will take obscene will to win as the #1 criteria I want in an owner like he has.

 

[flyerhawk]

You think Barkley and even Malone would be even mediocre rim protectors? Neither is defending guards in space either. Still, no, I am not saying Love is those guys which would be the deflection most would offer when I asked that question.

Different eras.

 

[dtgold88]

Different eras.

what makes you think they could or would play D in this era?

 

[tlance]

You think Barkley and even Malone would be even mediocre rim protectors? Neither is defending guards in space either. Still, no, I am not saying Love is those guys which would be the deflection most would offer when I asked that question.

No, they weren't.

But they played in a different era when they had to guard the opposing 4 on the block and rebound.

Love's defense would not have been an issue in the 80s or 90s. The game is totally different today.

 

[dtgold88]

No, they weren't.

But they played in a different era when they had to guard the opposing 4 on the block and rebound.

Love's defense would not have been an issue in the 80s or 90s. The game is totally different today.

Agree it's different. Barkley and Malone would still be stars, they still couldn't/wouldn't play D and they would not be ridiculed for it like Love is.

 

[flyerhawk]

why did you not reply to the rebound mention? Does that mean you realize your critique of his rebounding only being because he is tall was unfounded?

You really like to quibble and look for the "win" don't you? I didn't respond to your rebound comment because it was a vague rebuttal to what I said. I said he grabbed rebounds largely because of his size and position. Nothing wrong with that. And, sure, he gets more rebounds than a bunch of other guys his size in the league. Dwight Howard still gets lots of rebounds. Does that mean he is still a good defensive player?

You have a tendency to focus only on the stats you like.

Klay could get lost on his way to each game and GS wins a title.

You brought up title appearances. Bringing it up for Love and then hand waving away Klay doing even more isn't very honest.

 

[flyerhawk]

Agree it's different. Barkley and Malone would still be stars, they still couldn't/wouldn't play D and they would not be ridiculed for it like Love is.

No one is ridiculing Love here.

But in today's game he is a liability on the defensive side. I have no idea if Barkley or Malone would be all-stars today as the game is very different and in some ways detrimental to their skill sets.

 

[flyerhawk]

what makes you think they could or would play D in this era?

I don't think they would play good D today. I'm not sure how effective they would be today.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I'd really like to know if Kevin Love could be a sandwich what sandwich would he be? (Cheesesteak)

If Kevin Love was a 1980's hair band member who would he be? (Eddie Van Halen)

Which prominent figure in the bible does Kevin Love most remind you of? (Moses)

If you drink Kevin Love what beverage would he be? (Bud Light, gets good stats but a little empty)

 

[dtgold88]

You really like to quibble and look for the "win" don't you? I didn't respond to your rebound comment because it was a vague rebuttal to what I said. I said he grabbed rebounds largely because of his size and position. Nothing wrong with that. And, sure, he gets more rebounds than a bunch of other guys his size in the league. Dwight Howard still gets lots of rebounds. Does that mean he is still a good defensive player?

You have a tendency to focus only on the stats you like.



You brought up title appearances. Bringing it up for Love and then hand waving away Klay doing even more isn't very honest.

I said defensive rebounding was a part of defense and it is. Never said this makes him a good defensive rebounder. If I did, feel free to point it out. You tried to diminish a guy for his rebounding who rebounds as well or better than most his size.

I brought up title appearances for Love when it was mentioned this is important. when someone said Klay will win another, yes, I pointed out they'd win it with or without him. You disagree?

I did think you were better than the guy who has his comments refuted and plays the "you really like to argue card". Guess I was wrong.

 

[tlance]

Agree it's different. Barkley and Malone would still be stars, they still couldn't/wouldn't play D and they would not be ridiculed for it like Love is.

OK, but again, context is important.

The only reason we are overanalyzing Kevin Love's defense is because we have a few Cleveland fans who are very vocal about what they perceive Love's value to be. And pretty much everyone else disgrees with your take and Wiggy's take.

And I respect your opinion because you argue it with facts and never try to get personal. But I disagree strongly.

The reason I don't respect Wiggy is because of his antics and how 2 faced he is. He has always lauded Tristan Thomson because of his ability to defend in space, protect the rim and rebound. He talks about how valuable that is in the modern NBA.

And you know what? He is right about TT.

But then as soon as somebody tries to have a logical debate bringing up Love's faults, he completely ignores them and only talks about his 3 point shooting and rebounding.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that TT is a highly valuable commodity because he is a terrific modern big defender, then also pretend that Love's struggles on that end don't impact his overall value.

1 way players defintely do have value in the modern NBA. 2 way players just have more. Neither Love nor TT are net positives on both ends of the court.

 

[dtgold88]

No one is ridiculing Love here.

But in today's game he is a liability on the defensive side. I have no idea if Barkley or Malone would be all-stars today as the game is very different and in some ways detrimental to their skill sets.

I certainly cannot be sure but believe both would still be studs, wouldn't play D and it would get little mention.

 

[flyerhawk]

I said defensive rebounding was a part of defense and it is. Never said this makes him a good defensive rebounder. If I did, feel free to point it out. You tried to diminish a guy for his rebounding who rebounds as well or better than most his size.

I'm not diminishing Love. He's a good player. And he can be a very good player sometimes. But he's always been a defensive liability despite his defensive rebounds.

I did think you were better than the guy who has his comments refuted and plays the "you really like to argue card". Guess I was wrong.

I have no problem with you arguing points. But you start challenging my motives(ie accuse me of ignoring a point because your post was oh so good) I'm going to fire back.

Kevin Love is a defensive liability and his defensive rebounds do not change that. Full stop.

 

[flyerhawk]

I certainly cannot be sure but believe both would still be studs, wouldn't play D and it would get little mention.

Except that both of them were highly regarded because they were defensively sound players that were able to hold the defensive line.

If they are no longer defensively sound and they can't hit perimeter shots, then what is their role in the NBA today?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

20-10 guys that can shoot, and pass extremely well, especially. Especially ones that are unselfish

also, one of the biggest components of the defensive metrics that NBA teams use are defensive rebounding stats where Love is one of the very best in the NBA- so his defensive rating in a lot of those stats is usually much better than people expect. Allowing your guy to get offensive boards kills your team almost more than anything.

I'd still take Klay over Love, but for other reasons. I admit that Love can do the some things that Klay can't do. That's a given, but Love is injury prone and has been injured too much for me. For the Lakers, however I don't suppose it matters because no matter who it is, they get injured - seems like it any way. Klay though is a shooting guard - his job is to be a pure shooter - Love plays defense, rebounds more and is mixes it up, so having to choose Klay and give up Love means that you would still have to replace Love with another power forward. Same thing with Love - if you're going to select Love, then you have to replace Klay with a different shooting guard.