2016/2017 Off-Season Thread

[calsnowskier]

This looks about right to me, although I don't think the Giants will put 3 young outfielders on the team. Probably take Slater off and put a Vet on (Hernandez?). I say we overpay for Melancon.

Of the 3 elite closers out there, I definitely think Melancon will be the target. Jansen, I think, is over-rated, and he might cost a pick. Chapman has baggage and will cost a kings ransom (and will probably be going back to the Spanks).

 

[SFGRTB]

Of the 3 elite closers out there, I definitely think Melancon will be the target. Jansen, I think, is over-rated, and he might cost a pick. Chapman has baggage and will cost a kings ransom (and will probably be going back to the Spanks).

Nothing overrated about a guy with a 40% K%, career 2.21 ERA, 0.89 WHIP. Dude has a 3.2 WAR this year! He's going to get an outrageous contract, probably the 1st $100M reliever.

I would go after Melancon too, though.

 

[calsnowskier]

Nothing overrated about a guy with a 40% K%, career 2.21 ERA, 0.89 WHIP. Dude has a 3.2 WAR this year! He's going to get an outrageous contract, probably the 1st $100M reliever.

I would go after Melancon too, though.

He melts down too often. He has almost as many BSs as Casilla.

 

[LHG]

List of potential free agents this offseason: 2017 Free Agents | Cot's Baseball Contracts

Looking at this list, with the thought that the most likely positions the Giants will shop for are outfielders and relief pitchers, I came up with the best in the class:

Outfielders
Michael Saunders (.836)
Mark Trumbo (.834)
Ian Desmond (.804)
Jay Bruce (.800)
Cameron Maybin (.792)
Jose Bautista (.790)

Yoenis Cespedes would go straight to the top of this list if he exercises his opt out clause (which he most certainly will exercise).

Relief pitchers
Kenley Jansen (0.65, 1.72)
Aroldis Chapman (0.88, 1.73)
Mark Melancon (0.96, 1.71)
Boone Logan (0.91, 2.95)
Francisco Rodriguez (1.12, 2.65)
Wade Davis (1.18, 2.17)
Sergio Romo (1.15, 2.96)
Mike Dunn (1.20, 2.70)
Neftali Feliz (1.14, 3.52)
Brad Ziegler (1.38, 2.37)

Bump for those who may think free agency is going to help this club in 2017.

 

[LHG]

Maybe they kinda pulled in the reins a bit this year thinking even year magic would just happen again, LOL

No excuse next year, let's see the big guns....

I'm saying they tried to do it with the same formula this year as 2010 and 2014 (and kinda 2012) and that's fine, it obviously worked for a long time. But maybe phase II of the dynasty is to change the approach, try to be smart in free agency with bigger deals?

They pulled the trigger on two big name starting pitchers last year, with very mixed (so far) results. The only bigger name flopped badly in Arizona.
Most position player free agents that hit worth a lick this year are aging AL guys.

 

[calsnowskier]

Watching MLB network, and they just talked about the Angels and what they should do about Trout. They all acknowledged the the Halos are not going anywhere, so trading Trout is probably the best thing to do, but at the same time, who wants to be the GM who trades Trout away? Truly a tough spot for the Angels.

So it got me thinking. Understanding it would almost certainly never happen, what if the Giants basically told the Angels to take whatever they wanted from the system in exchange? A package something like...

Beede
Arroyo
Reynolds
Blach
Stratton
Suarez
Garcia
Shaw
Slater
...

Again, obviously the Giants would not make this deal. It would put everything into one basket, and that is just asking for problems. If today's news teaches us anything (from a baseball/business standpoint, at least), it is that anything can happen at any time.

But would the Angels make the deal? I would think they would want more higher-end talent coming back, as well as an MLBer or two.

 

[LHG]

Watching MLB network, and they just talked about the Angels and what they should do about Trout. They all acknowledged the the Halos are not going anywhere, so trading Trout is probably the best thing to do, but at the same time, who wants to be the GM who trades Trout away? Truly a tough spot for the Angels.

So it got me thinking. Understanding it would almost certainly never happen, what if the Giants basically told the Angels to take whatever they wanted from the system in exchange? A package something like...

Beede
Arroyo
Reynolds
Blach
Stratton
Suarez
Garcia
Shaw
Slater
...

Again, obviously the Giants would not make this deal. It would put everything into one basket, and that is just asking for problems. If today's news teaches us anything (from a baseball/business standpoint, at least), it is that anything can happen at any time.

But would the Angels make the deal? I would think they would want more higher-end talent coming back, as well as an MLBer or two.

If Trout goes on the market, we would get blown away by other teams able to offer substantially bigger deals. And I'm sure the Angels would use the Shelby Miller deal as a yardstick for what they would want in exchange.

 

[msgkings322]

They pulled the trigger on two big name starting pitchers last year, with very mixed (so far) results. The only bigger name flopped badly in Arizona.
Most position player free agents that hit worth a lick this year are aging AL guys.

Mixed results, hmmmm. Cueto? Also Shark is now easily our #3 he's figured it out. Great signings.

So you disagree that they need to step it up with some $? You think the team they have plus the guys in the minors get it done next year?

 

[msgkings322]

If Trout goes on the market, we would get blown away by other teams able to offer substantially bigger deals. And I'm sure the Angels would use the Shelby Miller deal as a yardstick for what they would want in exchange.

Agreed. Trading for Trout likely would cost Bumgarner or Posey as the centerpiece of the deal. And that's just for starters.

 

[LHG]

Mixed results, hmmmm. Cueto? Also Shark is now easily our #3 he's figured it out. Great signings.

So you disagree that they need to step it up with some $? You think the team they have plus the guys in the minors get it done next year?

Mixed results in that Cueto has been good, Samardzija has been inconsistent (but looking good toward the end of the season) and Span has been borderline awful.
There are some good free agents, but considering the market, they are going to break the bank if we sign one of them. I don't want to the team to be in the Angels' place in a couple of years. A bunch of large deals on the books, with not much flexibility and a barren minor league system. It may be time to rebuild.

 

[calsnowskier]

Mixed results in that Cueto has been good, Samardzija has been inconsistent (but looking good toward the end of the season) and Span has been borderline awful.
There are some good free agents, but considering the market, they are going to break the bank if we sign one of them. I don't want to the team to be in the Angels' place in a couple of years. A bunch of large deals on the books, with not much flexibility and a barren minor league system. It may be time to rebuild.

The Giants are not a rebuild franchise. There is good and bad in that statement, but it is basically true.

Also, you don't rebuild a team because of the bullpen.

The rotation, while not perfect, is one of the more solid in the entire game.

The infield is still one of the better I fields in the game, and it is almost entirely hone-grown. Posey is the best catcher in the game. Belt is good (I still don't think you lock in a "good" 1B to a long term deal, but let's move on). Panik is still solid defensively, but he has to get out of this sophomore slump or he won't last. Craw is a top-5 SS in the game. Nunez is a quality place-holder, and the Giants version of Zobrist.

The OF is a dumpster fire and a complete overhaul. Pence is good, but aging and should never be a #1 OFer on a contender. No other legit starters exist on this team. Hernandez, Slater and McParker show promise, but having two of them start next year, I think, is a worst-case-scenario. Though we all know Span will be given a starting job with no competition next year, and that is worse than the worst-case-scenario.

The bully needs a complete overhaul. Maybe the main pieces are already in place (Law, Romo, Smith...). Maybe not.

 

[msgkings322]

Mixed results in that Cueto has been good, Samardzija has been inconsistent (but looking good toward the end of the season) and Span has been borderline awful.
There are some good free agents, but considering the market, they are going to break the bank if we sign one of them. I don't want to the team to be in the Angels' place in a couple of years. A bunch of large deals on the books, with not much flexibility and a barren minor league system. It may be time to rebuild.

You don't need to rebuild an 85 win team that just makes (or just misses) the playoffs. You do need to make upgrades to the lineup (in the OF mainly, although Panik now needs to be watched, and Posey needs to catch less) and the bullpen

 

[tzill]

Mixed results, hmmmm. Cueto? Also Shark is now easily our #3 he's figured it out. Great signings.

So you disagree that they need to step it up with some $? You think the team they have plus the guys in the minors get it done next year?

I think that's far from certain. He's a streaky pitcher who is in a good streak right now.

 

[1phlapdown]

I think that's far from certain. He's a streaky pitcher who is in a good streak right now.

I have to agree with MSG. A nine game stretch in which he gave up 14 dingers in jun/jul (remember those 2 or 3 HR Derby games?) takes away from having a 3.86 era in apr, a 2.08 era in may, a 2.76 era in aug, and a 2.93 era in sep. I think the coaching staff had him make some adjustments that he has been able to stick with (but they sure took their sweet time about it). Imho. Some here with tweet privileges might want to holler out to Hank or Jeremy or?, and try to confirm my suspicion.

 

[LHG]

I know that this thread was started so early because the team didn't look like a post-season contending team and has gone silent for this last exciting week. But Blach's start, and subsequent chatter about his certain roster spot, got me thinking, how would things shake out in 2017, based on who we currently have. I know, we need a closer, and a reliable left handed reliever. That's for another post in this thread. Here's what I come up with for the possible Opening Day pitching staff for 2017:

For locks, I have 9 guys:
Five starters - Bumgarner, Cueto, Samardzija, Moore and Cain
Relief - Law, Strickland, Kontos, Smith

The bubble guys:
Blach, Gearrin, Okert, Suarez, Osich, Heston

Only three (maybe four) of those guys on the bubble make the team. If the Giants re-sign Romo, then only 2 to 3 of those guys make it. Then, does the team sign a left handed reliever and a closer? That means just about all of those guys start in the minors, go on the dl or get dfa'd.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't see the org looking outwards for a lefty. Okert, Osich, Smith and Blach offer a nice pool to draw from. I think they will get Melancon (or, less likely, Chapman or Janson), which should lengthen the pen. Maybe they go the trade route and get Wade, but I am concerned about his health at this point.

 

[LHG]

I don't see the org looking outwards for a lefty. Okert, Osich, Smith and Blach offer a nice pool to draw from. I think they will get Melancon (or, less likely, Chapman or Janson), which should lengthen the pen. Maybe they go the trade route and get Wade, but I am concerned about his health at this point.

Do you think they re-sign any of the free agents currently on the team? I'm okay with bringing back Romo and inviting Nathan to spring training on a minor league deal . . . and that's about it.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think is a small-to-mid chance Romo is resigned. I would be surprised if Nathan doesn't hang it up. Small chance Pagan is resigned.

That's about it.

 

[LHG]

So when does this thread start to heat up again? Maybe in a couple of days, after we've licked our wounds and have a bit clearer heads?

 

[calsnowskier]

Locks for 2017...

Crawford
Posey
Bumgarner
Cueto
Moore

EVERYONE else is open to being moved for improvement. I actually WANT a bit of a house cleaning. Sometimes a locker room needs to be shuffled.